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Old 01-28-2008, 01:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Canadians: A racist term in the US?

Has anybody out there, particularly in the US, ever hear of the term "Canadians" used as a perjorative or racist term?

This has broken in the news in the past couple of days and I have a suspicion that there may be a sense that we are being viewed in a negative manner due to our tendancy to be a tad left of centre in our national composition. What say you TFP? (I must say that whoever thinks this way hasn't had the pleasure of working, serving or playing with Canadians).

Here is the article & Link:

http://www.thestar.com/article/297666

Is term 'Canadian' used as racist word?

Email lands Texas district attorney in hot water

Jan 26, 2008 04:30 AM
Brett Popplewell
Staff Reporter

Is "Canadian" the new black? Perhaps – that is if you're a racist speaking in code.

Recent revelations that the term "Canadian" is being used to replace racist names for black people have got a Texas assistant district attorney into trouble and have left others wondering what exactly it means to be labelled a Canadian in the American south.

Long derogated as weak-kneed liberals with lax laws and funny monopoly money, Canadians have carried a negative connotation in certain regions of America – but not as a replacement for the N-word.

Earlier this week a columnist with the Houston Chronicle uncovered an email from Harris County assistant district attorney Mike Trent who, in a congratulatory note to a junior prosecutor, used the word "Canadians" to describe blacks on a jury.

Trent wrote of the prosecutor in a 2003 email: "He overcame a subversively good defence by Matt Hennessey that had some Canadians on the jury feeling sorry for the defendant and forced them to do the right thing."

Trent's email remained unchallenged by colleagues who received the email, despite there being no actual Canadians on the jury.

But when Trent's office came under scrutiny this month over an unrelated incident, the email was unearthed, leaving Trent open to accusations of bigotry.

Those accusations are grounded in allegations that the use of "Canadians" was in keeping with the definition listed on an online racial slurs database that defines "Canadian" as a masked replacement for the N-word.

In his own defence, Trent said he honestly thought there had been Canadians on the jury and did not understand the negative connotation of the word.

Others, including the columnist with the Houston Chronicle initially thought the reference to Canadians may have been a misspelling of Californians, who are themselves seen to espouse many of the same liberal values as Canadians.

Despite the controversy, Henry Wells, a Texan and media relations officer with the Canadian Consulate General in Dallas, says he has never heard the term used in a racial manner before.

Last edited by Leto; 01-28-2008 at 01:51 PM..
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You know how there is one idiot that's always trying to start some trend or another? Makes up nonsense words and tries to get other folks to use them?

This is what happens when that kid grows up and becomes a lawyer.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I read this in the star the other day and was amused by it... I'm just glad the idiot was caught.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
You know how there is one idiot that's always trying to start some trend or another? Makes up nonsense words and tries to get other folks to use them?

This is what happens when that kid grows up and becomes a lawyer.
Canadian has been 'code' for Blacks in chicago for at least 20 years now.

I'm sure it led to some amusing misunderstandings.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This is extremely common in restaurants. Serving staff generally refers to blacks as Canadians because they don't want to get in trouble. Stereotypically, blacks tip less and are more demanding of servers. And it is not new.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:05 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Fascinating. In the Niagara Falls/Buffalo Area, strip clubs (especially the raunchier ones across the border) often referred to as "the Canadian Ballet".

That people are using code words to hide their prejudices is not surprising but I wonder what the "Canadian" connection is.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Canadians aren't a race.








They're not even human.
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Canadian labels nationality. Is calling someone German or Mexican racist?
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Add me to the list of people who have never heard of Canadian used as a derogatory term. When I hear Canadian, I think of someone who lives to the North of the U.S. border.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Add me to the list of people who have never heard of Canadian used as a derogatory term. When I hear Canadian, I think of someone who lives to the North of the U.S. border.
You weren't suppose to know, now we have to do things so you can't talk

But its not really derogatory per say, but it can be used in a derogatory manner. It softens the blow.

Example, and as a former waiter the server example is best.

Waiter to manager: I've got a whole section of Canadians so I won't be tipping out tonight.

Its not derogatory, but it is racist, as blacks as a whole are known for being very demanding and crappy tippers.

Since we have been PCed out of talking about race like it matters, its just natural that people will adapt and 'invent' new ones.
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Old 01-28-2008, 04:49 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I have heard that we Canadians are also considered bad tippers, at least in tourist districts like Florida. My theory (if it's a true categorization) is that many Canadians calculate their tips based on the total sales tax, which is lower in American restaurants and bars.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Ooooookay. Apparently I am a bad tipper who, when caught leaving a sub-par tip, is referred to as a Canadian. Do people just make up s**t as they go along?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I don't think everyone is reading the thread.
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Ustwo, I think everyone missed the joke. Texas lawyer chooses to use the term "Canadian" to describe a black jury.

Think about it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So they're using the term Canadian in a derogatory way eh? Fucking Americans, I don't even know what to say. For the love of GOD I hate hearing about this shit.

You know, there's a REASON that Americans sew CANADIAN flags onto their packs when they travel abroad. It's because the world hates your guts, and you're so oblivious to the fact your country is rotting from the inside out. The only thing that would make me sad about the USA spiraling downward into oblivion would be that you dumb fucks would drag us down with you.

I guess you can't put ANYTHING past some inbred backwards fucktard from Texas.

I had something far more eloquent thought up, but for the love of god this has to be one of the most retarded things I've EVER heard.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
So they're using the term Canadian in a derogatory way eh? Fucking Americans, I don't even know what to say. For the love of GOD I hate hearing about this shit.

You know, there's a REASON that Americans sew CANADIAN flags onto their packs when they travel abroad. It's because the world hates your guts, and you're so oblivious to the fact your country is rotting from the inside out. The only thing that would make me sad about the USA spiraling downward into oblivion would be that you dumb fucks would drag us down with you.

I guess you can't put ANYTHING past some inbred backwards fucktard from Texas.

I had something far more eloquent thought up, but for the love of god this has to be one of the most retarded things I've EVER heard.


Putting the 'duh' in Canada.
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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so, can we still call em* Canucks?


edit: * = Canadians, that is.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo


Putting the 'duh' in Canada.
I love you too Ustwo

You're WAY too easy, you know that? That entire post was Ustwo bait... thanks, you totally made my night with the Picard picture

I love it
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
I love you too Ustwo

You're WAY too easy, you know that? That entire post was Ustwo bait... thanks, you totally made my night with the Picard picture

I love it
Based on how some people reacted I can only hope you are not that stupid so I'll say well done!
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Based on how some people reacted I can only hope you are not that stupid so I'll say well done!
I crafted that after reading your "I don't think everyone is reading the thread" post. I wanted to give you the stereotypical Canadian foil to the American bashing of Canada.

No, really, what I think of this whole thing is that it's just sad. Chris Rock said once that if in old times people used the term "butter" instead of the n-word then today it would be "I can't believe it's not N*****!"

People will use any word, it's really just a shame it has to be Canadians. Frankly, when I read the thread I kinda assumed he was painting the jury as having a liberal bias and that's why they could sympathize with the defendant. you know, haw haw Canadians are all commies haw haw.

On the other hand, if it is really a bigoted remark, I really could care less what some bigot thinks and what garbage spews out of their mouth. I find that those people are so set in their ways that they will cheer for an all-black football team and still hate black people. People really confuse me that way.

As for the whole tipping thing, if you don't like the extra money I give you, I've got two works for you... Learn to fucking type.
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Jessus Christ Ace! I couldn't stop laughing. I was showing my American friend the same post, and he has a great sense of humour, and he was laughing too. Nice work.

But, for the record, this whole "Canadian" thing is totally news to me.

Although I can see the leap in the venacular, I still find it quite, um, bizarre I guess.

Still, what can I do. I have winter tires on my AWD car. I say zed, not zee. I love William Shatner. I - Am - Canadian. White, but Canadian.

Gawd, so weird? I guess I should head down to Starbucks and clear my head with an Americano.

Peace,

Pierre
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Old 01-28-2008, 08:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Canadian has been 'code' for Blacks in chicago for at least 20 years now.

I'm sure it led to some amusing misunderstandings.

I have an old friend who lives in Chicago and whenever I visit him and go out with his buddies, they always refer to blacks as "Democrats". I got the impression that is a common reference in Chicago.

So is it worse to be a Canadian or a Democrat? Two negatives make a positive, so a Canadian Democrat is a white person?
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:45 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've started a new thread because I am interested in learning why Canadians and other foreigners come to the US, dine in our restaurants and patronize other services offered by the hospitality tourism industry, and....tip noticeably, and sometimes appreciably less than American residents who patronize these services and establishments...
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:08 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Oh, well. Some much for the obvious.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades
So they're using the term Canadian in a derogatory way eh? Fucking Americans, I don't even know what to say. For the love of GOD I hate hearing about this shit.

You know, there's a REASON that Americans sew CANADIAN flags onto their packs when they travel abroad. It's because the world hates your guts, and you're so oblivious to the fact your country is rotting from the inside out. The only thing that would make me sad about the USA spiraling downward into oblivion would be that you dumb fucks would drag us down with you.

I guess you can't put ANYTHING past some inbred backwards fucktard from Texas.

I had something far more eloquent thought up, but for the love of god this has to be one of the most retarded things I've EVER heard.
I wouldn't get so excited, it is established into our culture, and it is, I believe, due primarily because of a comparison of restaurant tipping practices which are frequent and stereotypical to the point of having become ingrained:

The columinst who wrote this is a black male:
Quote:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...233_jdl11.html
Tipping as a race issue: Waiters and diners, mutually wary
Sunday, June 11, 2006
By Jerry Large
Seattle Times staff columnist

A few years ago a student in a journalism class I was teaching wrote a column I still remember.

She was helping put herself through college by working as a waitress at a restaurant downtown and discovered a phenomenon that troubled her. The wait staff would sometimes grumble about Canadians. And if a party of black people came in, they would avoid waiting on that table.

It turned out "Canadians" was how the staff referred to black customers so as not to be overheard making what might be construed as racially biased comments. I do hope some poor Canadian didn't overhear.

The young writer, feeling bad for the customers and upset with her co-workers, would serve black customers herself, at first anyway.

Soon enough she began to share her co-workers' view.

Black customers didn't tip as well as other customers, and a few didn't tip at all. And worse, they could be demanding and touchy about any perceived slight.

She felt bad about her changing attitude, partly because it violated her sense of herself, and partly because not all customers fit the pattern. This situation is common, but almost always plays out without discussion across racial lines.

I'm very conscious of my behavior and tipping in restaurants. I want to leave a good impression, partly due to my assumption that servers might have some bias against me. When waiters are especially nice, I sometimes overdo. It's dumb all around.

I was reminded of the young server when I saw a report on race and tipping from the Center for Hospitality Research at Cornell University.

Waiters and black customers are both wary of each other, it said. Black people get poorer service, waiters get poor tips and the cycle keeps reinforcing itself.

It wasn't long ago that laws changed to allow black people into businesses that would not have permitted us before, and we weren't always welcomed warmly.

Many black folks weren't up to speed on the culture of restaurant dining as it is practiced in more affluent communities. Surveys find an attitude difference too, as black folks wonder why restaurants don't just pay their help a decent salary to begin with.

The report's author, Cornell professor Michael Lynn, wrote, "... Many restaurant servers dislike waiting on Black customers, deliver inferior service to Black guests on whom they must wait, and refuse to work in restaurants with a predominantly Black clientele."

There are differences between white tipping and that of Latinos and Asians as well, but the report said those differences aren't as great.

One waiter said, "... all the servers I work with hate having to wait on minorities, Black people, in particular, (and over half or our wait staff is Black!!!)."

There is less of a tipping gap as income and education go up, but it doesn't entirely disappear. Also it isn't just a black/white thing, in that the race of the server doesn't seem to affect tip size.

Studies have found servers leery of other groups as well, "foreigners, women, teenagers, the elderly and anyone bearing coupons."

The Cornell study mentioned other surveys that found white people were twice as likely to be familiar with the 15- to 20-percent rule. Sometimes black customers tip a flat amount that stays the same regardless of the bill size, so that it can be generous for a small bill, but not so good for a fancier spread.

Tipping shows up everywhere, not just in restaurants, and it can get terribly complicated. Whole books have been written on the topic, and many people feel some discomfort with it. A lot depends on whether the circumstances are familiar to you.

Black people tip some servers well — hotel maids and bartenders for example — sometimes giving them much more than white customers do.

People learn about tipping by growing up in a certain social strata, by being employed in jobs that include tips or from someone who has been in one of those jobs.

It's even more complicated. One survey found that customers tip white cab drivers more than black drivers. That includes black customers.

Etiquette guides say tipping is an option, but it really isn't. A lot of employers rely on tips to make up for small paychecks. It's part of the cost of the meal.

Lynn has suggested restaurants do some outreach to black churches for instance, or place informative placards in their businesses, and that they coach servers to give their best to all customers.

Like a lot of problems, this one lives on assumptions and silence. A little talk would be toxic to it.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by host
I wouldn't get so excited, it is established into our culture, and it is, I believe, due primarily because of a comparison of restaurant tipping practices which are frequent and stereotypical to the point of having become ingrained:

The columinst who wrote this is a black male:


hahahahahahahaha
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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man am i glad i got high before i read this post...........fucking laugh riot.



atta boy Ace..........




........here's the tip folks..............
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:50 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I thought that this was DISCUSSION forum....

The thread started with an OP that inquired as to whether Americans were using the word "Canadian" because of disapproval of "left of center" political leanings of the Canadian majority.

Now, it seems, a shift has taken place in which posters who identify themselves as Canadian, are directing negative sentiment at subservient, well groomed, powerless working people.....people born to embrace "left of center" political leanings....

Canadians were not singled out and labeled. It is not uncommon to stereotype and associate people who act similarly and with a high probability. It's just business, and a positive way to channel hostility, to vent it so that it does not spill over into the next business transaction.

How do you usually react to people, who compared to most others who you deal with, are measurably deficient in holding up their end of the bargain. Maybe the people who act in an average way when they pay the bill for a restaurant meal are doing it on purpose, to make you look bad.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Jesus, do you work in the restaurant industry?

Or is there some other reason you have such a hard-on for thinking that all Canadians are somehow stiffing every waitress in the USA out of valuable tips?

You so silly.
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:43 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fresnelly
I have heard that we Canadians are also considered bad tippers, at least in tourist districts like Florida. My theory (if it's a true categorization) is that many Canadians calculate their tips based on the total sales tax, which is lower in American restaurants and bars.
That used to be my method, when the sales tax and the GST added together gave you 15% of the food bill. As 15% is the accepted tip amount, that is what i would leave.

Since the GST has dropped from 7% to 5%, I now have to mentally calculate the 15%, so it's abit tougher.

Since this is the method used my a lot of Canadians, perhaps we undertip in the US? What is the accepted rate in the US? more than 15%? At any rate, I must add that personally, tipping is a practice that I abhor. I understand that the wages of the servers, busboys kitchen staff are artificially set lower, in order to encourage income via gratuity.

It just irks me that by the time I drop a bundle on food, drinks, parking what have you, I still have to pony up another 15%. so it is anticipated, and doled out in a very exacting manner.

Don't get me wrong, I do tip, it just bugs me. And I know the other side as well, having worked in various hospitality roles during my student years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by host
I've started a new thread because I am interested in learning why Canadians and other foreigners come to the US, dine in our restaurants and patronize other services offered by the hospitality tourism industry, and....tip noticeably, and sometimes appreciably less than American residents who patronize these services and establishments...

see my question above..... maybe there is something lost in translation?

Last edited by Leto; 01-29-2008 at 06:48 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-29-2008, 07:15 AM   #31 (permalink)
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A Canadian killed my parents.

The jury refused to sentence him to death, because under US provision 23.554c., B and F, all Canadians are hereby and henceforth considered mentally and physically retarded, and it would go against the morals of the community at large to put retards on death row.

I think they were just enamored with his tuxedo...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...anadian+tuxedo
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Old 01-29-2008, 09:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Does it matter? I can say that from now on when I say "orange juice" I really mean "nigger". Does that somehow make "orange juice" bad? WTF? If nobody cares, then what difference does it make? It's only a problem when some people let it start actually mattering.
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Old 01-29-2008, 10:57 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I have never heard someone use Canadian as a racist term.
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Old 01-29-2008, 11:06 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
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Old 01-29-2008, 06:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I'm just going to say this differently because sometimes I can't tell when people are joking and when they are not and I think this is important:

The term "Canadian" is used by some people to describe a black person. This is done because saying someone is Canadian is less likely to get you in trouble than if you tell someone that there is a table of blacks or something like that. It is not meant to disparage Canada in any way, at least it is not in every instance I have ever heard it.
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Old 01-30-2008, 07:06 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I find the word Canadian insulting... from now on, I wish to be called black (says the white Canadian)
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:06 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Location: Up your nose with a rubber hose
Hats off to the inventive jesters in our midst. This thread ought to be moved to Humor, or at least 65% of it.

My half-brother is Canadian.
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