squeeeb

does anyone barter? i mean, really barter, like "i'll fix your car if you give me vegetables from your farm" type of bartering.

i am attracted to the idea of bartering. first off, no tax, so you don't have to pay the government anything because you now own something you didn't a few minutes ago. also, the idea of sharing talents or goods appeals to me, seems more....social, more communal, more "we are all in this together, lets help each other out."

do you think it is feasible in the US, even on a small, local scale, for a few things? and i'm not talking one shot deals, but reoccurring actions. i know you can't barter for cable television, but is it possible between certain professions or people?

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Martian

I provide free tech support to my neighbour. In exchange, he allows me to run a wireless router off his DSL line, meaning I get free internet. I don't know whether or not that's the sort of thing you mean.

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Plan9

Happens a lot in the military while deployed. Trading whatever skill you have for the skill of another. This is especially true of the necessary fields like commo guys, medics, or cooks... who's trucks are always fixed first for some reason, eat the best food, etc.

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jewels

I've always thought the same and, yes, it can and has been done professionally. I thought it would have caught on with big business and government by now.

When the Ex and I set up our small business, we joined a bartering group. We didn't have much cash to set up and the large companies we needed equipment from were unwilling to barter, but we were able to barter services with insurance companies and smaller suppliers. We met many other small business people who'd had similar experiences. This was about 10 or so years ago, but I can't imagine it's changed all that much since.

It seems to me that this is an idea who's time has come, over and over. What puzzles me is why it hasn't caught fire.

Push-Pull

Probably because, except on small scales, it becomes a bit unwieldy to keep track of it. Get a lot of it going on, and you're hiring employees to manage just the bartered stuff.

Now, on an individual basis, I think it's a great idea, and have done it in the past quite a bit. Lessee, a S&W 9mm, an older IBM ThinkPad, a printer for my credit card terminal, IT and computer repair work, T-Shirts for my business, windshield replacement, auto bodywork, dinners at AppleBees, and I'm sure that I'm forgetting some.

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dksuddeth

watch when the taxes start going up too high, bartering will become the norm even for business. when taxes become too cumbersome or intrusive, business will find a way around it. then bartering will be made illegal or something.

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Ustwo

This.

Back before the Reagan tax reforms my dad used to do this all the time. We got a lot services in exchange for his. Technically it is illegal to not pay the taxes on it. Currency exists for convenience, thats a big part of why we accept little pieces of paper instead of real work/goods. When the burden of using it becomes to high people figure out more ways around it.

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BadNick

I think some co-ops get involved with such bartering of services in addition to their normal supply of goods. At least that's my understanding based on my daughter's reports about her quite progressive local co-op in Olympia Washington. As I imagine it, if you already have a membership that has joined forces to make it easier for everyone to get selected food stuffs, it's just one more step to having members offer services in exchange for co-op credits.

Ustwo

Sounds an awful lot like...currency

There are businesses that do that with 'trade bucks', but from what I can tell its more of a way of shafting employees being paid in 'trade bucks'.

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owlbill

We barter once in a while here, products or courses (scuba/snorkeling) in exchange for services like plumbing, roofing etc from students. Works out nice and is all legit.

telekinetic

Bartering only works consistently for a few select tradesmen and craftsmen, not professionals. It is also not terribly effective in a specialist economy. A helicopter technician is going to have a difficult time finding a farmer who needs his helicopter serviced in exchange for goods.

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inBOIL

My parents recently traded an old generator to a contractor in exchange for some repair work. It's nice when it works, but as others said, it's not always convenient.

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snowy

They're sister co-ops with our local co-op. Our local co-op has a couple different ways they do worksharing and promote worksharing, including through their newsletter.

There's also another local organization that prints a monthly newsletter that is distributed at various points around town that promotes worksharing of all kinds. It allows people to get in contact with others looking to do the same. I'll try and pick up a copy next time I swing by the co-op or somewhere else that has it. It's kind of interesting to see what services people trade, and what services people desire.

Another unique feature of the community I live in is that there is a cohousing community in our town called the CoHo Ecovillage. It's just getting set up, and it's been interesting to read about the different ways residents are coming together to produce this community. Cohousing obviously goes along with worksharing, and there has been a lot of effort on the part of the people moving into CoHo to outline what the worksharing needs of the community are prior to people moving in, so that they know from the outset that this is a community where that kind of trade-off is actively encouraged.

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angelica

I work for an Orthopedic instrument company, when one of my cats needed an operation ($1,000) I asked the Vet if he needed any instruments, showed him the catalog, he picked out about $750 worth of instruments (his cost, my cost about $50), and he did the operation for $250.

jorgelito

Angelica, quick question: Is the mark up $700 on the instruments?

angelica

Depends on the surgery and the instrument needed.

Sultana

I barter all the time with belly dance lessons. I get deep discounts on hair services, massage, whatever. I love it. I'm glad you brought this up, I have a cash-poor massuese in my class now, I am going to suggest barter for her.

I wish I had a mechanic, or a house painter, or a house cleaner in my classes...

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Redlemon

I'm in a high-barter industry (massage therapy), but I haven't tried to put it into practice yet. And, just to re-emphasize what Ustwo said, barter is taxable in the United States. You might not get caught, but the IRS can bust you for it.

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Fly

i trade eggs from my hens with my aboriginal buddy for good clean pot........



does that count?

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flstf

It is like the old song "Sixteen Tons", "I owe my soul to the company store". In some areas especially Appalachia it was quite common to work for company supplied housing and chits which could only be used at the company store to buy food, etc...

I wonder just how far this bartering thing can go since the IRS considers it income for both parties. If it gets too big I'm sure they will start cracking down, of course there will always be those who under report income on their tax forms. It doesn't seem right for the government to tax bartered transactions between individuals but it appears that is the law. The tax man wants a cut of all transactions.

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xepherys

How you could make this statement and utterly fail to mention the supply guys stuns me.

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squeeeb

see, i dont' understand how it would be taxable and illegal if caught. i own a laundry business, you are a farmer. i launder your clothes for a bunch of vegetables. how do you tax that? why would that be illegal if i just threw your clothes in the wash and you gave me some spinach?

i don't see the favors and hook-ups you get in the military as bartering. the supply guy has some extra glow plugs for your broken humvee that is redlined. he needs some camo nets for an upcoming change of command inventory. you trade. to me, that's not bartering, but maybe i'm just fucked up in the way i see things.

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flstf

I guess because if everybody bartered everything and it was not taxable then there would be no income to tax. The government wants you to pay taxes. The laundry owner and farmer received something of value and the tax man wants his cut of all such transactions.

cyklone

My younger brother is on a pension because he has crippled knees and very limited ability to work normally, but he is very handy mechanically and he lives in a small coastal town that seems to have an inordinate number of single mums also residing. He had an offer from one woman to barter car repairs for sex (initially a playful thing between friends) but she told a few of her friends who approached my brother with similar offers and now it has become a regular thing with several of the women around town. Lucky bastard.
I'm not sure how the government would tax that (barter is taxable in Australia as well).

inBOIL

That's prostitution. The government won't tax it, but they might make arrests.

edit: just saw you're in Australia. I'm not sure how prostitution works there.

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Lokus

I believe prostitution is legal in Australia. I know where my next vacation is

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cyklone

In several states of Australia prostitution is legal. In those states where it is not legal it is ignored but monitored for underage or imports etc. In states where it is "illegal", sex workers still advertise in the local paper.

Charlatan

Canada is closer and just as legal.

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