Three boys, 8 and 9, charged with raping 11-year-old girl - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cyborg Ninja · 11-20-2007, 02:58 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/19...ape/index.html

What a bizarre story. One father of the boys says there was no force involved and that it was consensual.

Quote:

MARIETTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Three boys, ages 8 and 9, were charged Monday with raping an 11-year-old girl last week, court officials and police said.

"Never in my 20-plus years of law enforcement have I conceived of something like this," Police Chief Michael Wilkie of Acworth, Georgia, told CNN.

Clad in blue jumpsuits, the two 9-year-olds and one 8-year-old appeared in court in Cobb County, north of Atlanta, on Monday afternoon and were ordered to remain in custody until a further hearing. Family members were in court for their appearance, which was closed to reporters.

Wilkie said the girl told investigators she was raped Thursday evening. She was examined by doctors after her family reported the allegation late Saturday, and investigators questioned her extensively on Sunday, he said.

The father of one of the boys told The Associated Press that no force was used against the girl, and said the allegations have been leveled because the accuser "didn't want to get in trouble with her parents."

But Wilkie said children that young cannot legally consent to sex, "so we have to go with the charges we have."

He told the AP one of the boys was accused of threatening to hit the girl with a rock before the alleged assault.

He also said the investigation is "far from over," and investigators are looking into claims that after the alleged attack, the girl talked about it with her friends at a slumber party, the AP reported.

"The investigators who are following up on this have had a lot specialized training of forensic interviews with children," Wilkie told CNN. "We've sent them to a number of courses for this, and so we're confident that we've done that part of the investigation as best as we can. We think her story at this point is credible and that's why we went forward with the warrants."

He said investigators have lined up counseling for the girl, "and we'll follow up on this and hope that it comes to as best a resolution at the end as we can."

The girl's mother told WGCL-TV in Atlanta, "They do need to be taught a lesson because if they do it to her, they could do it to somebody else. And who knows when they become teenagers what they can do to other girls."

Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head told reporters the current rape charges against the boys would be replaced with juvenile charges, since they are too young to be prosecuted on felony charges. Under Georgia law, juvenile defendants must be at least 13 before a case can be transferred to the adult system.

The juvenile charges could bring up to five years probation and time in a state youth home if the boys are ruled delinquent.

Juvenile Court Judge A. Gregory Poole imposed a gag order on participants in the case, limiting further explanation, Head said.

I don't know the details about this case: i.e., if the boys really forced the girl or not. But I do believe that sex between children can be consensual: obviously children have been doing this for millennia, no matter how awkward it may be to adults. I don't know if the Police Chief is a bit dim, or if he is stuck between a rock and a hard place and must follow the letter of the law here (basically his comments are a bit vague). And as for the kids supposedly threatening the girl with a rock... I don't know of any children who would have actually felt threatened by that. So, what do you all think?

DaveOrion · 11-20-2007, 03:10 AM

8 & 9 years old??? Hell they haven't even hit puberty yet, have they??? Was this an actual rape or just a fondling session??? Uh, I guess I just don't get it.....perhaps it was just a violence/domination thing, as all rapes are, without the actual sex act??? I suppose we'll never know the intimate details but when I was 8 & 9 a little "show me yours & I'll show you mine" was as far as it ever went.........

Cyborg Ninja · 11-20-2007, 03:36 AM

Here is another article (more detailed) on the incident:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...storyid=106686

I have spoken to enough people in private and am old enough to realize that there are many people who, when they were children, engaged in sexual activity. I myself didn't do anything with other children, but I'm not surprised that others did. It's just not spoken about due to the uncomfortable subject matter.

maleficent · 11-20-2007, 04:02 AM

I saw this quote in the paper this morning...

Quote:

He also said the investigation is "far from over," and investigators are looking into claims that after the alleged attack, the girl talked about it with her friends at a slumber party, the AP reported.

and makes me wonder if they have reason to believe that the girl is making it up for some reason...

Lasereth · 11-20-2007, 04:31 AM

When I was 8 I seriously had little to no idea how sex worked. Much less a sex drive.......

Weird story.

Bill O'Rights · 11-20-2007, 08:03 AM

Only 4 people really know what happened in that wooded area. And we will never know for sure. We know nothing of the environment, or the upbringing, of any of the "children" involved. All we can do is speculate.

So...8=...what, 3rd grade? 9= 4th grade? I was still playing with Hot Wheels and G.I. Joe. She's in the 6th grade? She should still be playing Barbie's and Polly Pockets. No matter what really happened...this is just flat fucked up.

Cyborg Ninja · 11-20-2007, 02:02 PM

Maleficient: they're looking into the slumber party because it would suggest that she didn't feel threatened in the first place and perhaps she told a different story. Though personally, I don't think that just because a girl tells her friends and not her parents first means that what happened wasn't traumatic for her. Children don't always tell their parents things like that. No reason to believe she made it up.

Children engaging in this kind of behavior has nothing to do with sex drives. It is just experimentation. Sorry, I don't make cute one-liners about this kind of thing.

Strange Famous · 11-20-2007, 02:05 PM

Whatever the situation is here, it does not belong in the public domain.

The_Jazz · 11-20-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Whatever the situation is here, it does not belong in the public domain.

Good observation.

I've been thinking about this thread all day, and I can't think of anything that really needs to be said at this point. If it was rape, it shouldn't be tried in the court of public attention. If it wasn't rape, it shouldn't be tried in the court of public attention.

There's a reason that juvenille records aren't public record.

kutulu · 11-20-2007, 02:27 PM

My only comment is that if it is determined that nothing was forced then the girl should also be charged. Consent works both ways. If she cannot consent to doing them they cannot consent to doing her. Of course this would never happen because girls are delicate flowers and boys just want to fuck.

World's King · 11-20-2007, 03:00 PM

It's a sick world we live in.

And I'm not really helping. The first thing that popped into my head is that this will end up being a stripper or hooker. Both the boys will grow up to continually disrespecting women. One day one of the boys will be in a drunken stooper at some nasty strip club and while shoving a dollar bill into the strippers butt crack he's gonna look up and with a confused look on his face he's gonna say, "Didn't I rape you when I was 9?"

Then he's gonna fallow her home and beat her to death with one of her giant clear plastic high-heeled shoes.

It's a part of the American Dream now.

kurty[B] · 11-20-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

Then he's gonna fallow her home and beat her to death with one of her giant clear plastic high-heeled shoes.

I don't watch enough TV, but has CSI already covered this possible scenario? Or is that next weeks episode? Either way, I'm sure there'll be plenty of perfect fingerprints and semen all over the place to solve the case.

Too bad this is reality. I'm not sure I even knew what to do with my penis aside from piss on trees and write my name in the snow when I was 8 or 9.

snowy · 11-20-2007, 04:19 PM

These boys can't even produce sperm to impregnate someone.

Yes, kids touch each other in sexual ways far before they are able to conceive of them being sexual--it's called "playing doctor"--but they rarely go this far. Usually when a child perpetrates this level of sexual contact with another child it's because they've seen the behavior somewhere else--frequently through abuse. That's what worries me here. There is no way 8-9 year old boys really know what the mechanics of sex are unless someone has shown them, or given them access to materials they shouldn't have access to. Somewhere in this situation there is a teenager or adult who is ultimately responsible. Little boys don't rape girls without somehow getting the idea into their heads, and I want to know where that came from. These boys could be victims too.

Hyacinthe · 11-20-2007, 10:37 PM

Quote:

one of the boys was accused of threatening to hit the girl with a rock before the alleged assault.

And the other article

Quote:

the boys threatened to beat her with a rope if she did not comply.

To me these threats make it more then just cutesy child like experimentation - they threatened her with physical violence. How can what she did afterwards be viewed as consensual? That is not giving consent them if a woman gave a BJ after being told:

"If you don't suck me off them I'm going to bash you with this rock"

I agree with Yowl about looking into the family situation of all three of these boys - 8 and 9 yr olds should not be thinkking of doing something like this.

stevie667 · 11-21-2007, 04:41 AM

Statutory rape on the girl, that isn't in question imo.

What is in question is why? I mean seriously! Wtf!

lurkette · 11-23-2007, 06:40 PM

When I saw this, I was pretty shocked at first. One, how have they even hit puberty?! Two, what is this world coming to.

But then I remembered being chased by boys when I was...what...7? They were the same age, and they were running around chasing all the girls trying to squeeze our crotches. I was a little upset, but not overly traumatized. I certainly haven't grown up to be a stripper. But had I reported this today, what would the school/parental/media reaction have been?

So it's hard to know if this is really an outrageous crime committed by juvenile predators, or normal childhood stuff being blown out of proportion.

Telluride · 11-24-2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

My only comment is that if it is determined that nothing was forced then the girl should also be charged. Consent works both ways. If she cannot consent to doing them they cannot consent to doing her. Of course this would never happen because girls are delicate flowers and boys just want to fuck.

That's what I was going to say.

Strange Famous · 11-24-2007, 12:58 PM

Again... this does not belong in the public sphere.

I know there are rules against flaming and personal attacks in this place, so I dont want to say this... but anyone who genuinely wants to see a confused and troubled 11 year old girl dragged through the legal system and the court of public contempt... is an utter idiot.

I apologise for breaking the feeling of this community, but these kind of comments really revolt me.

little_tippler · 11-26-2007, 05:52 AM

I just want to say that I still remember what it was like to be around those ages...I remember being chased by boys quite young (at 8 or 9), and there being kissing games and such. Maybe there was no sexual desire, but there was definitely a curiosity. I remember having crushes on boys as early as 7. I thought about sex occasionally at 12. I discovered masturbation at about 9 or 10. This may be, to some degree, a generation thing that we will never understand. I remember being 14 on the school bus and hearing little kids of 7 saying pretty strong swear words and talking about sex and thinking the world must be crazy. That being said, I'd say this can only be rape...how could she have consented to something almost completely alien to her? (Knowing about something isn't the same as actually knowing what it is in reality).

ring · 12-01-2007, 10:07 PM

My stomach feels all woobly.

dstrbdchld1328 · 12-02-2007, 09:12 AM

That is an odd story and i agree that i never had the idea or sex drive at that age

Hain · 12-02-2007, 09:41 AM

All right two possibilities: either she was raped or she is making it up.

If she was raped:
Like it has been mentioned, these boys would have need to have the idea implanted in their heads, through abuse or adult materials... Either way considerable attention needs to be placed on the parents of all children concerned.

This is just FUBAR of reality and turning into Atwood's Oryx and Crake...

Jadast · 12-02-2007, 05:45 PM

Who was watching these kids? 8 and 9 year olds in the woods? Maybe I'm an over protective father but I do not remember a time when my kids were wandering around without supervision.

genuinegirly · 12-04-2007, 11:30 AM

I don't understand. I hope there's some investigation of the parents in this process. There has to be more than what's in that article, and I'm not sure that I want to know.

LoganSnake · 12-04-2007, 01:16 PM

I don't know why so many people are surprised. My guy friends and I have been discussing having sex with our girl friends since the 3rd grade. That would put us in the same age category as the boys in question. Since we all shared every detail about our lives, I know that all of my guy friends have been masturbating since at least 6 years old (I started around 5). No to mention chasing after girls, kissing games, leg touching, etc. It wasn't sexually arousing, but exploratory.

While actually having sex at that age is going a little far (more so if they forced her to comply), sexual exploration among kids is a very normal thing.

Kpax · 12-05-2007, 12:22 AM

Thank the Internet for teaching kids the things they do these days (sarcasm, of course). Oh, and "On Demand" doesn't help the cause much, either.

They think that putting a little button that says "Do not click unless you are 18" is insurmountable for a kid to get around. Hmm... I think it delays them for all of 2 seconds, the time it takes to read the warning and decide to ignore it.

The system is a joke! Youtube got so popular because it was the only video site that stuck to innocent video clips, but like all the others the adult stuff made it's way finally.

11-20-2007, 03:10 AM	#2 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	8 & 9 years old??? Hell they haven't even hit puberty yet, have they??? Was this an actual rape or just a fondling session??? Uh, I guess I just don't get it.....perhaps it was just a violence/domination thing, as all rapes are, without the actual sex act??? I suppose we'll never know the intimate details but when I was 8 & 9 a little "show me yours & I'll show you mine" was as far as it ever went......... __________________ *Syriana*...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer...

11-20-2007, 03:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Cyborg Ninja Crazy	Here is another article (more detailed) on the incident: http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...storyid=106686 I have spoken to enough people in private and am old enough to realize that there are many people who, when they were children, engaged in sexual activity. I myself didn't do anything with other children, but I'm not surprised that others did. It's just not spoken about due to the uncomfortable subject matter. __________________ Become an organ donor

11-20-2007, 08:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Only 4 people really know what happened in that wooded area. And we will never know for sure. We know nothing of the environment, or the upbringing, of any of the "children" involved. All we can do is speculate. So...8=...what, 3rd grade? 9= 4th grade? I was still playing with Hot Wheels and G.I. Joe. She's in the 6th grade? She should still be playing Barbie's and Polly Pockets. No matter what really happened...this is just flat fucked up. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

11-20-2007, 02:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cyborg Ninja Crazy	Maleficient: they're looking into the slumber party because it would suggest that she didn't feel threatened in the first place and perhaps she told a different story. Though personally, I don't think that just because a girl tells her friends and not her parents first means that what happened wasn't traumatic for her. Children don't always tell their parents things like that. No reason to believe she made it up. Children engaging in this kind of behavior has nothing to do with sex drives. It is just experimentation. Sorry, I don't make cute one-liners about this kind of thing. __________________ Become an organ donor

11-20-2007, 02:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Whatever the situation is here, it does not belong in the public domain. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-20-2007, 04:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	When I was 8 I seriously had little to no idea how sex worked. Much less a sex drive....... Weird story.

11-20-2007, 02:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	My only comment is that if it is determined that nothing was forced then the girl should also be charged. Consent works both ways. If she cannot consent to doing them they cannot consent to doing her. Of course this would never happen because girls are delicate flowers and boys just want to fuck.

11-20-2007, 03:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	It's a sick world we live in. And I'm not really helping. The first thing that popped into my head is that this will end up being a stripper or hooker. Both the boys will grow up to continually disrespecting women. One day one of the boys will be in a drunken stooper at some nasty strip club and while shoving a dollar bill into the strippers butt crack he's gonna look up and with a confused look on his face he's gonna say, "Didn't I rape you when I was 9?" Then he's gonna fallow her home and beat her to death with one of her giant clear plastic high-heeled shoes. It's a part of the American Dream now. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

11-20-2007, 04:19 PM	#13 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	These boys can't even produce sperm to impregnate someone. Yes, kids touch each other in sexual ways far before they are able to conceive of them being sexual--it's called "playing doctor"--but they rarely go this far. Usually when a child perpetrates this level of sexual contact with another child it's because they've seen the behavior somewhere else--frequently through abuse. That's what worries me here. There is no way 8-9 year old boys really know what the mechanics of sex are unless someone has shown them, or given them access to materials they shouldn't have access to. Somewhere in this situation there is a teenager or adult who is ultimately responsible. Little boys don't rape girls without somehow getting the idea into their heads, and I want to know where that came from. These boys could be victims too. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

11-21-2007, 04:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Statutory rape on the girl, that isn't in question imo. What is in question is why? I mean seriously! Wtf! __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

11-23-2007, 06:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	When I saw this, I was pretty shocked at first. One, how have they even hit puberty?! Two, what is this world coming to. But then I remembered being chased by boys when I was...what...7? They were the same age, and they were running around chasing all the girls trying to squeeze our crotches. I was a little upset, but not overly traumatized. I certainly haven't grown up to be a stripper. But had I reported this today, what would the school/parental/media reaction have been? So it's hard to know if this is really an outrageous crime committed by juvenile predators, or normal childhood stuff being blown out of proportion. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

11-24-2007, 12:58 PM	#18 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Again... this does not belong in the public sphere. I know there are rules against flaming and personal attacks in this place, so I dont want to say this... but anyone who genuinely wants to see a confused and troubled 11 year old girl dragged through the legal system and the court of public contempt... is an utter idiot. I apologise for breaking the feeling of this community, but these kind of comments really revolt me. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

11-26-2007, 05:52 AM	#19 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	I just want to say that I still remember what it was like to be around those ages...I remember being chased by boys quite young (at 8 or 9), and there being kissing games and such. Maybe there was no sexual desire, but there was definitely a curiosity. I remember having crushes on boys as early as 7. I thought about sex occasionally at 12. I discovered masturbation at about 9 or 10. This may be, to some degree, a generation thing that we will never understand. I remember being 14 on the school bus and hearing little kids of 7 saying pretty strong swear words and talking about sex and thinking the world must be crazy. That being said, I'd say this can only be rape...how could she have consented to something almost completely alien to her? (Knowing about something isn't the same as actually knowing what it is in reality). __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

12-01-2007, 10:07 PM	#20 (permalink)
ring ░ Location: ❤	My stomach feels all woobly.

12-02-2007, 09:12 AM	#21 (permalink)
dstrbdchld1328 Upright	That is an odd story and i agree that i never had the idea or sex drive at that age

12-02-2007, 09:41 AM	#22 (permalink)
Hain has a plan Location: middle of Whywouldanyonebethere	All right two possibilities: either she was raped or she is making it up. If she was raped: Like it has been mentioned, these boys would have need to have the idea implanted in their heads, through abuse or adult materials... Either way considerable attention needs to be placed on the parents of all children concerned. This is just FUBAR of reality and turning into Atwood's Oryx and Crake... __________________ ////\\// IRONSKY.NET \\//\\\\

12-02-2007, 05:45 PM	#23 (permalink)
Jadast Upright Location: Summerville, SC	Who was watching these kids? 8 and 9 year olds in the woods? Maybe I'm an over protective father but I do not remember a time when my kids were wandering around without supervision.

12-04-2007, 11:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I don't understand. I hope there's some investigation of the parents in this process. There has to be more than what's in that article, and I'm not sure that I want to know. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-04-2007, 01:16 PM	#25 (permalink)
LoganSnake We work alone Location: Cake Town	I don't know why so many people are surprised. My guy friends and I have been discussing having sex with our girl friends since the 3rd grade. That would put us in the same age category as the boys in question. Since we all shared every detail about our lives, I know that all of my guy friends have been masturbating since at least 6 years old (I started around 5). No to mention chasing after girls, kissing games, leg touching, etc. It wasn't sexually arousing, but exploratory. While actually having sex at that age is going a little far (more so if they forced her to comply), sexual exploration among kids is a very normal thing. __________________ Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques

12-05-2007, 12:22 AM	#26 (permalink)
Kpax Crazy Location: Washington	Thank the Internet for teaching kids the things they do these days (sarcasm, of course). Oh, and "On Demand" doesn't help the cause much, either. They think that putting a little button that says "Do not click unless you are 18" is insurmountable for a kid to get around. Hmm... I think it delays them for all of 2 seconds, the time it takes to read the warning and decide to ignore it. The system is a joke! Youtube got so popular because it was the only video site that stuck to innocent video clips, but like all the others the adult stuff made it's way finally.