Canada: Are we paying too much???? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Leto · 10-26-2007, 10:34 AM

I was in Houston in Sept of this year on a conference. While I was there, I did some comparative shopping between Houston ("the US") and Toronto ("Back Home"). Just what I say and the recent news around pricing should serve to ignite some discussion. For example:

iPod Touch:

Apple Store in the Houston Galleria: $299
Future shop & Best Buy in Toronto: $329

Asecs Running shoes (Gel 1120)

Sports Authority Houston: $69
Running Room Toronto: $119

Other examples: I went to the Hallmark Store in Toronto's Fairview mall and bought a birthday card. On the back, there were two prices: US: $3.99 Canada: $6.50 I told the clerk that I would like to pay the US price, and that I had some American money to do so (left over from my trip). No Luck.

In the past I believe that we assumed that there was an issue around the exchange rate, but now that the Canadian dollar is worth $US1.04, that excuse doesn't wash anymore. We have been hoodwinked that a 30 - 50 % price difference is acceptable.

Some of the excuses provided are the cost to retailers passed on by duties, taxes wholesalers etc, but americans receive imports from the same places that we do. I can see a price inflation of maybe 5% due to duties & French packaging requirments, but huge differences like we see are obscene.

Cars are another big category with differences in pricing of tens of thousands of dollars. The Chrysler 300 (manufactured right here at home in Ontario) starts at $30,395 at Toronto Dodge Chrysler.

When it gets shipped over the border to Detroit, it costs $25,270 at Naylor Motors in An Arbor. And to top it off, we are not allowed to purchase these vehicles. The American dealers are not allowed to sell to Canadians.

That is my rant. Are we a bunch of pussies, or are we going to flex our consumer muscles and start using the internet for our Christmas shopping?

analog · 10-26-2007, 12:11 PM

The title made me think the US was buying Canada and not happy about the offer their Realtor made. lol

Serious note... I have no knowledge at all about such things, but my first assumption would be it's got something to do with your tax structure. Not necessarily the taxes consumers pay at the counter, but taxes levied on companies selling it.

World's King · 10-26-2007, 12:31 PM

Small price to pay for having a better health care system...

And not having a retarded monkey running your country.

Plan9 · 10-26-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

Small price to pay for having a better health care system...

And not having a retarded monkey running your country.

Hot damn! My exact thoughts.

1: Bandaids for everybody.
2: Retarded Texan.

n0nsensical · 10-26-2007, 06:10 PM

Yes, Canada is getting the shaft because of the Canadian dollar/US dollar exchange rate, which recently reached record highs [pretty flash graph]. It's a matter of convenience (for retailers) that they're slow to update prices in such a situation. The Canadian market is also smaller and more isolated; the US has larger economies of scale allowing for lower prices in theory.

Just be glad you don't live in the UK where it's even worse.

fish_oinc · 10-26-2007, 06:28 PM

I believe the Canadians are still trying to make a profit on any thing they can even though the exchange rate is almost the same right now.. I know hotel rates are way up in Canada when wife went last month she paid way too much could have had the same room here for $50 less I’m sure

hrandani · 10-26-2007, 06:35 PM

Does this include the value added tax or whatever?

Seriously though if your biggest complaint as a Canadian is you're paying too much for luxury goods, you need to think about this a little more.

Ustwo · 10-26-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

Small price to pay for having a better health care system...

You know some day if enough people say Canada's health care system, which is going broke, is better than the US system, it might be true, if you believe in the power of positive thought anyways.

Plan9 · 10-26-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

You know some day if enough people say Canada's health care system, which is going broke, is better than the US system, it might be true, if you believe in the power of positive thought anyways.

You have health insurance, don't ya? Yes, you do!

hrandani · 10-26-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

You know some day if enough people say Canada's health care system, which is going broke, is better than the US system, it might be true, if you believe in the power of positive thought anyways.

Well thank Jesus the US system isn't going broke, even without health care or retirement benefits!

oh fuck, look what I did there

Baraka_Guru · 10-26-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

You know some day if enough people say Canada's health care system, which is going broke, is better than the US system, it might be true, if you believe in the power of positive thought anyways.

Yeah, it's hard to say which system is better considering there are so many differences. All I know is that for my own personal reasons, I'm thankful for the Canadian system. I'm not worried about the system going broke, Canada does just fine in terms of economic stability. Sure it might be largely because of the oil sands and Bush cranking it up in Iran, but I say go with it.

But this brings up an interesting point related to the OP: With the strong Canadian dollar, should we be looking for ways to buy up American medical technologies to improve our current system? We gotta take advantage of the American economy while we can. Personally, if I had the cash, I'd be dumping it into a USD investment savings account at least.

Ustwo · 10-26-2007, 10:22 PM

The problem with the Canadian system is the average bloke pays more in tax dollars to support the system than I pay for insurance.

If you are some slob without a job, sure its great, you can milk off those with them, but otherwise you are getting ripped off.

Leto · 10-27-2007, 03:50 AM

ustwo has a point... we as Canadians are used to paying taxes to cover off a large amorphous mass of spending ranging from health care to transportation to national debt. In most ways I accept paying ( I was going to say that I don't mind paying, but I do mind) my share of taxes for this all round feeling of security, but we only make a limited amount of money, and I would dearly like to be able to use some of it to invest in, yes hrandani, luxury goods, fun things as well as all the serious concerns.

Economies of scale are another good point. Canada? about 34 million people, roughly the purchasing public the size of California or New York. But spread out over a huge distance. But most of our market integration is north/south anyways with significant US sectors.

highthief · 10-27-2007, 04:32 AM

Can we not go down the health care road yet again?

This is about economics and price gouging by big business.

Yes, initially, they had inventory for which they paid a higher price and needed to charge a higher price to ensure profits. Fair enough.

But now they are getting bargain deals and trying to shaft Canadian consumers in return.

I'm doing all my Christmas shopping on e-bay or by taking a trip to Buffalo until the retailers get their shit together.

canuckguy · 10-27-2007, 05:22 AM

this thread was going along so well then pop...pop....

i would like to see our prices drop but i doubt they will. i just wish the exchange rate was around 80% not on par....helps my commission big time!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The problem with the Canadian system is the average bloke pays more in tax dollars to support the system than I pay for insurance.

If you are some slob without a job, sure its great, you can milk off those with them, but otherwise you are getting ripped off.

do you have facts to back this up?

I am just curious to see if someone say who makes 35k a year gets all the same medical options someone in canada would receive through your insurance. I have no idea what those options are though. what is the yearly cost for someone with prior health conditions?

can we also do this out saying this fictional person develops serious cancer that requires long term treatment? taking them out of the working world?

Martian · 10-27-2007, 05:40 AM

The ipod is actually pretty much at parity; we pay tariffs, where Americans don't so far as I know. As to the rest, well, there's more to the prices of these commodities than simple exchange rates. Part of it is simply economy of scale; goods in the larger marketplace of the United States are able to be shipped, shelved and processed in a more cost effective manner, because more of them are moving. Given that we do have roughly the same per capita income, this plays a major role in price parity or lack thereof. There's also the fact that to an American company (like an auto manufacturer, for example) anything produced up here in Canada is now costing dramatically more per unit, due to the higher relative cost of labour. If this ends up being a long term trend, this is likely to drive costs for Canadian made goods up across the board; for the moment, we're footing the bill. Add to that any obfuscated taxes and tariffs that are levied in addition to the transparent sales tax at point of purchase and it becomes clear why we end up paying more.

Yeah, we pay more taxes and that kind of sucks. In exchange for that, we have more public services available to us, as well as a thriving economy. Personally, I reckon the benefits outweigh the costs.

I'm not even touching the healthcare debate, except to say that I have no idea where Ustwo is getting his information from. It certainly doesn't line up with any of my research or personal experiences, and just lately the healthcare system is something that I'm seeing rather a lot of.

Baraka_Guru · 10-27-2007, 09:24 AM

Per capita government expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$):

Canada: 2120.9 (2004)
USA: 2724.7 (2004)

Source: (WHO: Core Health Indicators)
http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...indicators=nha

And, highthief, it isn't a simple equation tied to the value of the dollar. This isn't price gouging by big business; it effects all business. A lot of it has to do with economies of scale and what companies charge others for their goods. There are many factors that determine manufacturer's price to retailers, and, in turn, retailers' price to consumers. Sure, some are taking advantage, but it is not a simple issue of the Canadian dollar alone.

snowy · 10-27-2007, 09:42 AM

This phenomenon is what fuels the economy of Whatcom County, Washington. Canadian money has paid for malls, movie theaters, restaurants, etc.

Yes, you probably are paying too much, but it does benefit economies across the border.

casual user · 10-27-2007, 08:29 PM

exports always cost more in foreign countries than they do domestically. at least you can have some solace in the fact that europeans have it way worse

kutulu · 10-29-2007, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martian

I'm not even touching the healthcare debate, except to say that I have no idea where Ustwo is getting his information from. It certainly doesn't line up with any of my research or personal experiences, and just lately the healthcare system is something that I'm seeing rather a lot of.

Why wouldn't an American Republican know more about the Canadian health care system than an actual Canadian?

orionnebula · 11-03-2007, 06:26 PM

Yes we are paying a lot of tax and a lot of it don't reach where it's supposed to be (this is another topic). But the sales tax is NOT hidden in the price (add around 6-15% depending where you are in Canada)

As for this thread subject, it is getting more rediculous every day

Here is a couple of example, taking at random using current 1.07$CAN = 1$US
<pre>
Spider man 3 2-disk DVD: amazon.com 22.99$ ( 21,49$CAN) amazon.ca 29.96$CAN 39% more
24 season 6 (pre-order): amazon.com 38.99$ ( 36,44$CAN) amazon.ca 56.55$CAN 55% more
LG - 42" 720p Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV: BestBuy.com 1099.99$ (1028,03$CAN) BestBuy.ca 1299,99$CAN 26% more
Whirlpool Duet Sport Front Load Washer: sears.com 699.99$ ( 654,19$CAN) sears.ca 899,99$CAN 37% more
</pre>
We do pay more tax and maybe shipping cost are slightly higher but never to a ratio 20-60%. This goes straight to profit of company.

Hopefully all the shopping done in the US will make company realize they are stealing us. 3 hours waiting at the custom borders is now regular near Plattsburgh, NY and package from US to Canada are waiting over 2 weeks to be processed at the post custom office with so much backlog.

Canadian, Buy US and we will save a lot

Baraka_Guru · 11-03-2007, 11:00 PM

We need to realize that this isn't a simple dollar-to-dollar comparison. Amazon.com and Amazon.ca are two different operations. They each have their own distribution systems and their own operating costs. I mentioned economies of scale earlier. Amazon.com has a much higher sales volume and can therefore charge a lower price based on that alone. Also, there are other competitive considerations. The U.S. market is far more competitive than the Canadian market. Also consider the cost of shipping in Canada, which is a demographically sparse country compared to the U.S.

When you look at operating costs alone, you look at things such as property values, gas prices, employee costs, etc. These are elastic values that differ company to company and country to country. Although the value of the dollar is certainly a factor, to assume that the prices should be at par with the dollar value differential is oversimplifying the big picture.

Amazon.com's prices should never be expected to be equal to Amazon.ca's. It wouldn't make sense if you understand business models and pricing strategies. The bottomline: These are two different national markets, and there are regional and local markets to consider as well. If anything, the costs of foreign products will come down...over time. But the actual amount will probably be less than you'd expect.

Leto · 11-04-2007, 04:55 AM

I have to agree with a lot of points that Baraka is making. It is completely facile to assume that parity will make prices the same. Economies of scale probably have more to do with pricing than anything else, except purchaser behaviour.

Already though, purchaser behaviour is driving down prices at the register in many larger Canadian retailers (Walmart, Zellers etc) where they now charge the US price rather than the canadian. But typically, I will search out the lesser price. I just order flowers for a funeral, by using the FTD American site over the Canadian site. The cost was $15 cheaper for the purchase and $6 cheaper for the dlivery. The business still went to the same Vancouver florist tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

This phenomenon is what fuels the economy of Whatcom County, Washington. Canadian money has paid for malls, movie theaters, restaurants, etc.

Yes, you probably are paying too much, but it does benefit economies across the border.

Your're welcome! Just send me a pound of your fine coffee, and I'll be happy!

Fire · 11-12-2007, 10:58 PM

i, too, looked at this thread title and had to ask, "what are we paying for canada?" seriously, though, is it so much more expensive to ship to canada, rather than the us, now that everything is made in china anyway?

Baraka_Guru · 11-13-2007, 04:43 AM

Don't forget the "and handling" part of the "shipping and handling" part of the equation.

It's all about the numbers (read: volume). Try serving a market like Timmins, especially when you're dealing with something as heavy as books.

Leto · 10-16-2009, 07:38 AM

well, it's been a couple of years and the dollar is almost at parity again. A lot has happened since 2007 - total global meltdown of the world's econcomies not to mention locally the first go-round caused the manufacturing and film industries in Canada to retreat as costs in the US became more competitive.

Can the Loonie close to the US dollar again be good for us?

Baraka_Guru · 10-16-2009, 08:01 AM

It depends on who you mean by "us." It isn't good for manufacturers because it's more difficult to export goods to the U.S. when the Canadian dollar is high compared to the U.S. dollar. As for importers, the opposite is true: now you can get more bang for your buck and make a higher profit. It's all relative.

To the average consumer, it means this: foreign goods might be less expensive for a while, but local producers might have to raise prices to make up for a lack of sales outside of the country. And cross-border shopping is now more attractive to us border dwellers.

The value of the dollar at any given time is usually neither "good" nor "bad," in a general sense; what's important is whether it is stable. It's difficult to adapt to something that changes too rapidly. That's what we have to watch out for.

Leto · 10-16-2009, 08:05 AM

That's my feeling. I think that business requires stability to be able to predict. Consumers need stability to be able to plan. So as long as prices are stable, I can budget accordingly regardless of where the dollar is. So yes, as a consumer I have to agree with you.

Baraka_Guru · 10-16-2009, 08:11 AM

Most solid business plans have contingencies for when the value of the dollar changes (in either direction). Heck, most good plans have contingencies for anything outside of their control: economic, political, social, etc.

percy · 10-17-2009, 07:05 AM

Canadians are getting screwed every which way possible. But those doing the screwing know us Canadians will only bitch for awhile then accept it.

A pair of Clark shoes I purchased last month in Boston were $89 retail. Why should I wait for a sale in Canada for the same shoes that are on sale once a year for $99, regularly $139

Baraka_Guru · 10-17-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

Canadians are getting screwed every which way possible. But those doing the screwing know us Canadians will only bitch for awhile then accept it.

A pair of Clark shoes I purchased last month in Boston were $89 retail. Why should I wait for a sale in Canada for the same shoes that are on sale once a year for $99, regularly $139

I've said it once; I'll say it again: economies of scale. I wouldn't be surprised to learn the market for Clark shoes in Boston is larger. And if the distribution for them is national, rather than local--even if it's regional--well, then, there you have it. The price of a good or service isn't tied merely to the cost of currency. Distribution is a huge factor.

We aren't getting "screwed" every which way. We merely a smaller market. Comparing the Canadian market to the American market will usually get you this kind of disparity. It's the nature of the beast.

We're talking this kind of difference:

GDP (2008)
U.S. $14.4 trillion
Can $1.3 trillion

Now think about doing business in each market. Do you make different kinds of decisions? Do you have different factors? Of course. You can buy and sell a huge amount in the U.S. compared to Canada, and this brings your unit cost down substantially, passing the savings onto the customer.

blahblah454 · 10-17-2009, 11:16 AM

I almost always refuse to buy anything from stores in Canada. I don't give a fuck if it helps out business here or not, if I can buy something online for 20-70% less (that includes shipping charges and duties) there there is no way I would ever buy the same item from a store here.

I understand that there is a larger consumer base in USA, but does this explain things like hotels? Hotels are just as full here as they are in the USA. I stay in lots of hotels in Canada with my job, and the shittiest ones cost around $100 a night, with some slightly nicer ones costing $130-160 a night. One of the nicest hotels I have ever stayed in was just on the USA side of the boarder, and it cost me around $95 a night! Even in Rapid City I paid less for a decent hotel than I do in some shit hotel in Canada. Everything here is horribly expensive.

james t kirk · 10-17-2009, 01:21 PM

I was just in San Francisco for the Thanksgiving Weekend.

While there, I thought I'd see if there were any major bargoons to be had. I ventured into Costco in Foster City and frankly the prices were a bit cheaper, but nothing to make me stop and buy anything.

For example, 4 Gillete Fusion razor pack (my brand, so I know the prices)

$49.99 in Costco Toronto

$41.99 in Costco San Fran.

At the time, the C$ was about 95 cents, so, that makes it about $45.00.

Is it worth it for 10%??

Same story for clothing. Yes, it's cheaper, but not that much cheaper.

I think the one place you might see better deals are cars. New cars in the US are decidedly lower than Canada.

blahblah454 · 10-17-2009, 03:04 PM

Here is a nice example for you, I am looking at a camera for someone right now.

In Canada it costs $450
In USA I can get it for $290

Can anyone guess where I am buying it from?

underdun · 10-17-2009, 11:29 PM

[QUOTE=Leto;2333159]

When it gets shipped over the border to Detroit, it costs $25,270 at Naylor Motors in An Arbor. And to top it off, we are not allowed to purchase these vehicles. The American dealers are not allowed to sell to Canadians.

QUOTE]

That is not completely true, we are not allowed to buy NEW vehicle's in the US (and if you could the warranty doesn't transfer over). As for a price comparison try this, a friend of mine picked up a 2008 Navigator in the States fully loaded for $23,000 after taxes. I looked at the dealer auctions for him in Toronto, the best I could find was an 2006 (some luxury items missing) for 29,000, looking at around 35,000 after taxes and fee's. Regulations on vehicles are a little different but to buy a car from the US and have it meet Canadian standars (but most newer vehicles meet both) runs about $1000 max, and the border has a flat fee of $500 to bring a US vehicle across! Perhaps if they were a little more competitive here then they wouldn't be loosing so much business to the US. Although i've noticed a few dealerships are starting to bring vehicles over from the US.

Baraka_Guru · 10-18-2009, 05:10 AM

Here's a sample:

Gasoline Prices (Oct 13, 2009), Cents per Litre:

Code:

Ottawa            87.4
Toronto           91.4
Montreal          99.9
Vancouver         101.1
Edmonton          84.6
Yellowknife       119.7
Gander            106.5
St. Johns         103.9
Labrador City     112.4

Canada average    94.6

What's going on here?

* * * * *

And, blahblah, when just about everything is more expensive in Canada, this means running a hotel costs more in Canada than doing so in the U.S. This is not to say Canadian hotels on average couldn't try harder to match U.S. prices, but to have them universally do so might simply put them in the red and out of business altogether.

* * * * *

And why don't the Canadian liquor stores match the Cubans' prices on rum? They're selling it down there for $3 a 26'er....

Maybe we are getting screwed....

GreyWolf · 10-18-2009, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casual user

exports always cost more in foreign countries than they do domestically. at least you can have some solace in the fact that europeans have it way worse

That's not always so, unfortunately. Many Canadian products (take snowmobiles as an example) sell for less in the US (after exchange) than they do in Canada.

As a rule, Canadians are far too accepting of price gouging. We do not have the US insistence on market-driven pricing. We accept marketing boards that set minimum prices for things, we accept prices on imported goods that go beyond simple exchange rates and business risks, we accept a government policy of deliberately under-valuing the Canadian dollar (on any rational basis, the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar, and has been for over 15 years). The chilling effect on the Canadian economy has been profound, and it has kept us tied to an artificial dependence on resource exports to the US and finished good imports from the US.

Yes, we do pay too much for imported goods, and it has nothing to do with our tax structure or health system.

By the way, the lower taxes in the US are nothing but a smoke screen. The US is deferring INCREDIBLE amounts of tax, dumping it on their children through their deficits, while Canadian fiscal policy since 1995 has, until the last 2 years, produced surpluses at all levels of government, paying down our total debt.

MSD · 10-18-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

Small price to pay for having a better health care system...

And not having a retarded monkey running your country.

I can't tell you how shocked I was at this until I saw it was posted in 2007.

Leto · 10-18-2009, 06:34 PM

Did it make sense after you saw the posting date?

10-26-2007, 10:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	Canada: Are we paying too much???? I was in Houston in Sept of this year on a conference. While I was there, I did some comparative shopping between Houston ("the US") and Toronto ("Back Home"). Just what I say and the recent news around pricing should serve to ignite some discussion. For example: iPod Touch: Apple Store in the Houston Galleria: $299 Future shop & Best Buy in Toronto: $329 Asecs Running shoes (Gel 1120) Sports Authority Houston: $69 Running Room Toronto: $119 Other examples: I went to the Hallmark Store in Toronto's Fairview mall and bought a birthday card. On the back, there were two prices: US: $3.99 Canada: $6.50 I told the clerk that I would like to pay the US price, and that I had some American money to do so (left over from my trip). No Luck. In the past I believe that we assumed that there was an issue around the exchange rate, but now that the Canadian dollar is worth $US1.04, that excuse doesn't wash anymore. We have been hoodwinked that a 30 - 50 % price difference is acceptable. Some of the excuses provided are the cost to retailers passed on by duties, taxes wholesalers etc, but americans receive imports from the same places that we do. I can see a price inflation of maybe 5% due to duties & French packaging requirments, but huge differences like we see are obscene. Cars are another big category with differences in pricing of tens of thousands of dollars. The Chrysler 300 (manufactured right here at home in Ontario) starts at $30,395 at Toronto Dodge Chrysler. When it gets shipped over the border to Detroit, it costs $25,270 at Naylor Motors in An Arbor. And to top it off, we are not allowed to purchase these vehicles. The American dealers are not allowed to sell to Canadians. That is my rant. Are we a bunch of pussies, or are we going to flex our consumer muscles and start using the internet for our Christmas shopping?

10-26-2007, 12:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Small price to pay for having a better health care system... And not having a retarded monkey running your country. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

10-26-2007, 10:22 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The problem with the Canadian system is the average bloke pays more in tax dollars to support the system than I pay for insurance. If you are some slob without a job, sure its great, you can milk off those with them, but otherwise you are getting ripped off. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

10-27-2007, 04:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Can we not go down the health care road yet again? This is about economics and price gouging by big business. Yes, initially, they had inventory for which they paid a higher price and needed to charge a higher price to ensure profits. Fair enough. But now they are getting bargain deals and trying to shaft Canadian consumers in return. I'm doing all my Christmas shopping on e-bay or by taking a trip to Buffalo until the retailers get their shit together. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

10-27-2007, 05:40 AM	#16 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	The ipod is actually pretty much at parity; we pay tariffs, where Americans don't so far as I know. As to the rest, well, there's more to the prices of these commodities than simple exchange rates. Part of it is simply economy of scale; goods in the larger marketplace of the United States are able to be shipped, shelved and processed in a more cost effective manner, because more of them are moving. Given that we do have roughly the same per capita income, this plays a major role in price parity or lack thereof. There's also the fact that to an American company (like an auto manufacturer, for example) anything produced up here in Canada is now costing dramatically more per unit, due to the higher relative cost of labour. If this ends up being a long term trend, this is likely to drive costs for Canadian made goods up across the board; for the moment, we're footing the bill. Add to that any obfuscated taxes and tariffs that are levied in addition to the transparent sales tax at point of purchase and it becomes clear why we end up paying more. Yeah, we pay more taxes and that kind of sucks. In exchange for that, we have more public services available to us, as well as a thriving economy. Personally, I reckon the benefits outweigh the costs. I'm not even touching the healthcare debate, except to say that I have no idea where Ustwo is getting his information from. It certainly doesn't line up with any of my research or personal experiences, and just lately the healthcare system is something that I'm seeing rather a lot of. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

10-26-2007, 12:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
analog Banned	The title made me think the US was buying Canada and not happy about the offer their Realtor made. lol Serious note... I have no knowledge at all about such things, but my first assumption would be it's got something to do with your tax structure. Not necessarily the taxes consumers pay at the counter, but taxes levied on companies selling it.

10-26-2007, 06:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
n0nsensical Junkie Location: San Francisco	Yes, Canada is getting the shaft because of the Canadian dollar/US dollar exchange rate, which recently reached record highs [pretty flash graph]. It's a matter of convenience (for retailers) that they're slow to update prices in such a situation. The Canadian market is also smaller and more isolated; the US has larger economies of scale allowing for lower prices in theory. Just be glad you don't live in the UK where it's even worse.

10-26-2007, 06:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
fish_oinc Tilted Location: mountains of va.	I believe the Canadians are still trying to make a profit on any thing they can even though the exchange rate is almost the same right now.. I know hotel rates are way up in Canada when wife went last month she paid way too much could have had the same room here for $50 less I’m sure

10-26-2007, 06:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
hrandani Insane	Does this include the value added tax or whatever? Seriously though if your biggest complaint as a Canadian is you're paying too much for luxury goods, you need to think about this a little more.

10-27-2007, 03:50 AM	#13 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	ustwo has a point... we as Canadians are used to paying taxes to cover off a large amorphous mass of spending ranging from health care to transportation to national debt. In most ways I accept paying ( I was going to say that I don't mind paying, but I do mind) my share of taxes for this all round feeling of security, but we only make a limited amount of money, and I would dearly like to be able to use some of it to invest in, yes hrandani, luxury goods, fun things as well as all the serious concerns. Economies of scale are another good point. Canada? about 34 million people, roughly the purchasing public the size of California or New York. But spread out over a huge distance. But most of our market integration is north/south anyways with significant US sectors.

10-27-2007, 09:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Per capita government expenditure on health at average exchange rate (US$): Canada: 2120.9 (2004) USA: 2724.7 (2004) Source: (WHO: Core Health Indicators) http://www.who.int/whosis/database/c...indicators=nha And, highthief, it isn't a simple equation tied to the value of the dollar. This isn't price gouging by big business; it effects all business. A lot of it has to do with economies of scale and what companies charge others for their goods. There are many factors that determine manufacturer's price to retailers, and, in turn, retailers' price to consumers. Sure, some are taking advantage, but it is not a simple issue of the Canadian dollar alone. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 10-27-2007 at 09:28 AM..

10-27-2007, 09:42 AM	#18 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	This phenomenon is what fuels the economy of Whatcom County, Washington. Canadian money has paid for malls, movie theaters, restaurants, etc. Yes, you probably are paying too much, but it does benefit economies across the border. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

10-27-2007, 08:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
casual user Crazy Location: everywhere and nowhere	exports always cost more in foreign countries than they do domestically. at least you can have some solace in the fact that europeans have it way worse

11-03-2007, 06:26 PM	#21 (permalink)
orionnebula Tilted	Yes we are paying a lot of tax and a lot of it don't reach where it's supposed to be (this is another topic). But the sales tax is NOT hidden in the price (add around 6-15% depending where you are in Canada) As for this thread subject, it is getting more rediculous every day Here is a couple of example, taking at random using current 1.07$CAN = 1$US <pre> Spider man 3 2-disk DVD: amazon.com 22.99$ ( 21,49$CAN) amazon.ca 29.96$CAN 39% more 24 season 6 (pre-order): amazon.com 38.99$ ( 36,44$CAN) amazon.ca 56.55$CAN 55% more LG - 42" 720p Flat-Panel Plasma HDTV: BestBuy.com 1099.99$ (1028,03$CAN) BestBuy.ca 1299,99$CAN 26% more Whirlpool Duet Sport Front Load Washer: sears.com 699.99$ ( 654,19$CAN) sears.ca 899,99$CAN 37% more </pre> We do pay more tax and maybe shipping cost are slightly higher but never to a ratio 20-60%. This goes straight to profit of company. Hopefully all the shopping done in the US will make company realize they are stealing us. 3 hours waiting at the custom borders is now regular near Plattsburgh, NY and package from US to Canada are waiting over 2 weeks to be processed at the post custom office with so much backlog. Canadian, Buy US and we will save a lot Last edited by orionnebula; 11-03-2007 at 06:29 PM..

11-03-2007, 11:00 PM	#22 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	We need to realize that this isn't a simple dollar-to-dollar comparison. Amazon.com and Amazon.ca are two different operations. They each have their own distribution systems and their own operating costs. I mentioned economies of scale earlier. Amazon.com has a much higher sales volume and can therefore charge a lower price based on that alone. Also, there are other competitive considerations. The U.S. market is far more competitive than the Canadian market. Also consider the cost of shipping in Canada, which is a demographically sparse country compared to the U.S. When you look at operating costs alone, you look at things such as property values, gas prices, employee costs, etc. These are elastic values that differ company to company and country to country. Although the value of the dollar is certainly a factor, to assume that the prices should be at par with the dollar value differential is oversimplifying the big picture. Amazon.com's prices should never be expected to be equal to Amazon.ca's. It wouldn't make sense if you understand business models and pricing strategies. The bottomline: These are two different national markets, and there are regional and local markets to consider as well. If anything, the costs of foreign products will come down...over time. But the actual amount will probably be less than you'd expect. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

11-12-2007, 10:58 PM	#24 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	i, too, looked at this thread title and had to ask, "what are we paying for canada?" seriously, though, is it so much more expensive to ship to canada, rather than the us, now that everything is made in china anyway? __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

11-13-2007, 04:43 AM	#25 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Don't forget the "and handling" part of the "shipping and handling" part of the equation. It's all about the numbers (read: volume). Try serving a market like Timmins, especially when you're dealing with something as heavy as books. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

10-16-2009, 07:38 AM	#26 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	well, it's been a couple of years and the dollar is almost at parity again. A lot has happened since 2007 - total global meltdown of the world's econcomies not to mention locally the first go-round caused the manufacturing and film industries in Canada to retreat as costs in the US became more competitive. Can the Loonie close to the US dollar again be good for us? __________________ You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey And I never saw someone say that before You held my hand and we walked home the long way You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

10-16-2009, 08:01 AM	#27 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	It depends on who you mean by "us." It isn't good for manufacturers because it's more difficult to export goods to the U.S. when the Canadian dollar is high compared to the U.S. dollar. As for importers, the opposite is true: now you can get more bang for your buck and make a higher profit. It's all relative. To the average consumer, it means this: foreign goods might be less expensive for a while, but local producers might have to raise prices to make up for a lack of sales outside of the country. And cross-border shopping is now more attractive to us border dwellers. The value of the dollar at any given time is usually neither "good" nor "bad," in a general sense; what's important is whether it is stable. It's difficult to adapt to something that changes too rapidly. That's what we have to watch out for. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 10-16-2009 at 08:08 AM..

10-16-2009, 08:05 AM	#28 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	That's my feeling. I think that business requires stability to be able to predict. Consumers need stability to be able to plan. So as long as prices are stable, I can budget accordingly regardless of where the dollar is. So yes, as a consumer I have to agree with you. __________________ You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey And I never saw someone say that before You held my hand and we walked home the long way You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

10-16-2009, 08:11 AM	#29 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Most solid business plans have contingencies for when the value of the dollar changes (in either direction). Heck, most good plans have contingencies for anything outside of their control: economic, political, social, etc. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

10-17-2009, 07:05 AM	#30 (permalink)
percy Addict	Canadians are getting screwed every which way possible. But those doing the screwing know us Canadians will only bitch for awhile then accept it. A pair of Clark shoes I purchased last month in Boston were $89 retail. Why should I wait for a sale in Canada for the same shoes that are on sale once a year for $99, regularly $139

10-17-2009, 11:16 AM	#32 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	I almost always refuse to buy anything from stores in Canada. I don't give a fuck if it helps out business here or not, if I can buy something online for 20-70% less (that includes shipping charges and duties) there there is no way I would ever buy the same item from a store here. I understand that there is a larger consumer base in USA, but does this explain things like hotels? Hotels are just as full here as they are in the USA. I stay in lots of hotels in Canada with my job, and the shittiest ones cost around $100 a night, with some slightly nicer ones costing $130-160 a night. One of the nicest hotels I have ever stayed in was just on the USA side of the boarder, and it cost me around $95 a night! Even in Rapid City I paid less for a decent hotel than I do in some shit hotel in Canada. Everything here is horribly expensive.

10-17-2009, 01:21 PM	#33 (permalink)
james t kirk Junkie Location: Toronto	I was just in San Francisco for the Thanksgiving Weekend. While there, I thought I'd see if there were any major bargoons to be had. I ventured into Costco in Foster City and frankly the prices were a bit cheaper, but nothing to make me stop and buy anything. For example, 4 Gillete Fusion razor pack (my brand, so I know the prices) $49.99 in Costco Toronto $41.99 in Costco San Fran. At the time, the C$ was about 95 cents, so, that makes it about $45.00. Is it worth it for 10%?? Same story for clothing. Yes, it's cheaper, but not that much cheaper. I think the one place you might see better deals are cars. New cars in the US are decidedly lower than Canada.

10-17-2009, 03:04 PM	#34 (permalink)
blahblah454 Let's put a smile on that face Location: On the road...	Here is a nice example for you, I am looking at a camera for someone right now. In Canada it costs $450 In USA I can get it for $290 Can anyone guess where I am buying it from?

10-17-2009, 11:29 PM	#35 (permalink)
underdun Upright Location: Eastern Canada	[QUOTE=Leto;2333159] When it gets shipped over the border to Detroit, it costs $25,270 at Naylor Motors in An Arbor. And to top it off, we are not allowed to purchase these vehicles. The American dealers are not allowed to sell to Canadians. QUOTE] That is not completely true, we are not allowed to buy NEW vehicle's in the US (and if you could the warranty doesn't transfer over). As for a price comparison try this, a friend of mine picked up a 2008 Navigator in the States fully loaded for $23,000 after taxes. I looked at the dealer auctions for him in Toronto, the best I could find was an 2006 (some luxury items missing) for 29,000, looking at around 35,000 after taxes and fee's. Regulations on vehicles are a little different but to buy a car from the US and have it meet Canadian standars (but most newer vehicles meet both) runs about $1000 max, and the border has a flat fee of $500 to bring a US vehicle across! Perhaps if they were a little more competitive here then they wouldn't be loosing so much business to the US. Although i've noticed a few dealerships are starting to bring vehicles over from the US. __________________ If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

10-18-2009, 05:10 AM	#36 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Here's a sample: Gasoline Prices (Oct 13, 2009), Cents per Litre: Code: Ottawa 87.4 Toronto 91.4 Montreal 99.9 Vancouver 101.1 Edmonton 84.6 Yellowknife 119.7 Gander 106.5 St. Johns 103.9 Labrador City 112.4 Canada average 94.6 What's going on here? * * * * * And, blahblah, when just about everything is more expensive in Canada, this means running a hotel costs more in Canada than doing so in the U.S. This is not to say Canadian hotels on average couldn't try harder to match U.S. prices, but to have them universally do so might simply put them in the red and out of business altogether. * * * * * And why don't the Canadian liquor stores match the Cubans' prices on rum? They're selling it down there for $3 a 26'er.... Maybe we are getting screwed.... __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 10-18-2009 at 05:19 AM..

10-18-2009, 06:34 PM	#39 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	Did it make sense after you saw the posting date? __________________ You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey And I never saw someone say that before You held my hand and we walked home the long way You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I