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#1 (permalink) |
part of the problem
Location: hic et ubique
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do not speak bad about AT&T
i should be careful posting this, since i have AT&T cellphones...
according to the AT&T terms of service agreement here: http://home.bellsouth.net/csbellsout...tt.htm&leg=tos para 5 5.1, "AT&T may immediately terminate or suspend all or a portion of your Service, any Member ID, electronic mail address, IP address, Universal Resource Locator or domain name used by you, without notice, for conduct that AT&T believes ....(c) tends to damage the name or reputation of AT&T, or its parents, affiliates and subsidiaries. i am sure they are somehow covering their butts on something, but doesn't this sound a bit...censorship-y to you?
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onward to mayhem! |
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#2 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I think censorship is a rather hard term for it.
Its more 'don't use our resources to damage our company.' If this were say a sign company and they refused to print signs saying 'Sign Company sucks', it would be a bit more clear but the intent is the same. Now if you want to get philosophical on who owns 'information' technology I'm too tired for that aspect ![]()
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#3 (permalink) |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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If you walked into an electronics store and started setting every screensaver on a computer to "This store sucks," would you really expect them to allow you to remain in the store? Try walking into Radio Shack and talking shit about the store on one of the display bullhorns (actually, as a former employee I can say that if no manager is in, most employees hate working there enough that they might let you continue.)
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#4 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Grand Rapids
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I do not have that problem....Where I live, I use the services of a competitor of
AT&T (Nee SBC, Nee Ameritech, Nee Michigan Bell)....
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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. Anais Nin I Wish You Well. ![]() |
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#5 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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we won't tolerate that kind of behavior here, nor would you allow it in your own house. Doesn't seem like big of a deal if you hate AT&T beacause they suck the big donke...... >click<
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#7 (permalink) |
Minion of the scaléd ones
Location: Northeast Jesusland
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I think the issue is that AT&T is selling the ability to communicate. That said, I would have a reasonable expectation that they would not be able to limit the content of that communication except insofar as it were already limited (ie. If you use our phone to plot blowing up national monuments, we're going to cut you off.)
So yeah, kind of like Shauk said, but with the difference is that TFP is not functionally a public utility, nor has it ever been anything but Hal's house where he lets us write on the walls.
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Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life. |
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#8 (permalink) |
part of the problem
Location: hic et ubique
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i guess another part of my question is...how would they know? are they listening? if i use my att cellphone to call a bunch of people and say "do not use att, they suck" would i get cut off? according to the TOS, i might.
so how would they know?
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onward to mayhem! |
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#9 (permalink) | |
Psycho
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Hal your elevator only goes to the basement and somebody left an awful mess down there. ![]() Last edited by albania; 09-29-2007 at 02:13 PM.. Reason: Spelling error. |
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#11 (permalink) | |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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#14 (permalink) | |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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The First Amendment ONLY applies to governments, state, local or federal. No one else. This is boilerplate language. It's interesting, I suppose, but it doesn't mean a damn thing until they try to enforce it. They could have put in language that required the customer to insert a carrot into their ass ever 3rd Thursday and sing "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" naked on their front lawn while balancing an egg on their head, but until they actually started trying to make people do it, it's a waste of ink. Contractual law is all about what part of the wording is enforced. If no one bothers to enforce provisions of the contract, they become wastes of paper. And contractual law has as much to do with free speech as it does with voting rights.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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#15 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#16 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Its a product of the 'entitlement' generation.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#18 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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#19 (permalink) | |
Psycho
Location: Grand Rapids
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No, one will have to sing "Reach out and Touch Someone" ![]()
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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. Anais Nin I Wish You Well. ![]() |
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#20 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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i don't think that is what this clause is about at all squeeb: i don't think it's about you talking shit about at&t...i think that they are putting in a provision that states that if you are engaged in 'unsavory' practices...say, hosting a donkey porn site on www.donkeyinthebutt.att.com or something, they can deny you service. now, as jazz points out, whether or not it's enforceable or not is a different issue...but i think that's what they're out to prevent.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
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#21 (permalink) |
Upright
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So we've got the authoritarians who scream loudly that corporations have every right whatsoever because they are only doing what an ordinary person would do. Of course, they blithely ignore the fact that a) this isn't a person we're dealing with and b) contract law doesn't quite work that way.
Then we've got the libertarians who believe anything that chips away at their precious liberties is unconstitutional. Of course, this matter does not involve State action nor does it involve any of the 13th amendment violations that can nail private citizens. What we've got here is a contract issue plain and simple. In a day to day contract, say I hire a contractor to paint my rooms. He does a shitty job on one of them. I say directly in his face or make a web page saying "contractor did a shitty job painting my room." Can he refuse to perform? Sure, but then he's in breach of contract. So we've got a slick, multibillion dollar corporation that's wised up to the fact people like to complain about crappy service. So they stick a clause into the contract, called an "adhesion contract", because by its very nature its terms are not bargained for. You sign it or reject it, no ifs ands or buts. So I post a website "ATTreallysucks.com" and they cancel my service. Are they in breach too? Dunno. But the judge is going to look very carefully at that clause and determine (using special scrutiny) whether the term would be outside of the reasonable expectations of the purchaser. |
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#22 (permalink) | |||
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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If, for instance, you asked for a change order that required him (Contractor X) to paint "Contractor X does bad work" on the outside of your house, and he didn't comply, I doubt you'd have any grounds for action either. And that's a part of what this is about. Quote:
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
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#23 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#24 (permalink) | |||||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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#25 (permalink) | |||||
Upright
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And protected class has nothing to do with this situation. That's a Constitutional issue, not a contract issue. Quote:
You can, however, BREACH a contract easily and simply all the time. While a company may spell out the damages in an adhesion contract, these may be limited by the courts as punitive damages (only liquidated damages or contract damages are allowed in a contract case, this is why you sue your doctor in malpractice not breach of contract). The damages don't have to be spelled out in a contract. You can go to court without a damage clause. So say they terminated my account, the court found them in breach, what would I be entitled to? Probably the cost to get another ISP and any cost incidental to loss of connectivity. Unless they knew about my special needs and still agreed to provide me service, then they may be liable for more (expectation dmgs). Another thing I don't understand: why aren't conservatives more pissed off about this? This represents a fundamental breakdown in the attractive myths that customer service is of the utmost importance. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right?" Whatever happened to finding out what the customer's problems are and solving them? Hey I'm not saying the companies should bow down to outright fraud, but how about addressing legitimate customer concerns that have been offshored to some foreign company that doesn't have the power to do a damn thing to fix the problem. For example: when I buy a Sprint Phone from Radioshack Wireless, I don't expect to have to call an Inphonic call center 3 times before they authorize shipping, 2 times to find out why they haven't delivered my phone when promised, then get bounced between Sprint, Radioshack, and Inphonic over a month to get my phone repaired, when they promise on several occasions to replace my phone then keep telling me they are out of stock. (It's still not here. The shipping ordeal lasted 3 weeks, the repair ordeal has lasted 5 weeks and counting). It's hard to get my dollar to vote when I'm locked into a 2 year contract and my phone will only work with Sprint networks. Where's the service? Last edited by DumberThanPaint; 10-03-2007 at 10:43 AM.. |
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atandt, bad, speak |
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