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#1 (permalink) | |
pinche vato
Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton
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Secession now, secession tomorrow, secession forever!
I don't agree with the assertion that only far right Southerners want to secede, but it is truly amazing how an often-ridiculed idea suddenly gains respectability with the addition of a few Yankees in the mix.
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Living is easy with eyes closed. |
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#3 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I keep hoping California secedes. Is that wrong?
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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#4 (permalink) |
has all her shots.
Location: Florida
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Uh, some southerners feel that way, not all of us, warrrreagl
![]() And frankly, if I wanted to be part of a secession, I would move to New England. Don't particularly care to be governed by the League of the South folks.
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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce |
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#6 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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i dont get it.
did you actually look at the league of the south? they are basically just another tiresome little neo-fascist group. compare the wiki page for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_the_South to the statement of ideals from the front national: http://www.frontnational.com/index.php particularly their lovely positions concerning sucession from the eu. both organizations argue that the "real culture" they defend is white, christian and ulta-conservative. both use this definition to set off the Evil Empire against which they imagine themselves struggling. both set up a logic that is exclusive at the levels of religion and ethnicity, but because they do not actually make the conclusions explicit themselves, they both deny that these implications necessarily follow. now i am sure that the motive behind the op came from some wistful sense of antebellum nostalgia in which one severs "charm and courtesy" and "all things southern" from its actual contexts historically---from the artistocratic pretenses of cavalier society, from the plantation system this deployed inside of, from the economic system it sat upon...so this nostalgia is about the actual history in the way that the society for creative anachronism is about the mideval period. as a kind of mental parlor game, i dont care about this one way or another. but then again, i am a yankee so i suppose i am incapable by definition of understanding this deep southern thing. but what seems quaint and musty and kinda irrelevant as a parlor game, becomes genuinely problematic if you transpose it from some curious tic employed as a solidarity check at "mixed" parties into an actual politics--if these politics amount to an updated blood and soil thing geared around a hallucination of "authentic culture." let's assume this really is a parlor game, that the league of the south is a marginal little groups and that the idea behind the op was about the succession-nostalgia and not really about the politics and get on with drinking morning coffee...
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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#7 (permalink) |
pinche vato
Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton
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A) Not all Southerners want to secede
B) Not all Southerners who want to secede are racist or fascist C) Not all secessionists in the article are Southerners I just thought it was interesting. The easy response is Southerner=secessionist=racist=backwards hick=wrong. The response that requires accepting a different perspective is more difficult and less clear-cut.
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Living is easy with eyes closed. |
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#8 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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warrreagl:
i specifically said that the league of the south falls into at least some of those categories. i didnt say anything about "all southerners" because i dont know what the cateogry would refer to and have no idea what kind of sentence one might impute to it. i also specifically said that i didnt think you were motivated to post the op article out of any particular sympathy with the league. i just thought the article odd. if you really mean to have folk consider some "successionist" position as if that was a kind of exercise in expanding one's horizons and the only access you give to that position is routed through the league of the south.... anticipating the static that might generate is not rocket science. what actually interests you about this?
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
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#9 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Am I wrong or is there a legal right to secede? I'm fairly certain that if the federal government and the body wishing to secede agree that it's alright, it can happen and is protected, but not 100%. If there really were a hypothetical consensus in a Southern (or any) state, and the Congress agreed, for whatever reason, then I guess we'd bid them a fond fair well and warm wishes as they secede and then slowly realize that there are only maybe somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 states in the US that could self sustain: Alaska, California, Texas, and maybe Montana. Outside of those states, heavy trading would have to start immediately, with the US, and sovereignty would be questionable because of probable wishes not only to travel into the US, but also there may be a large part of the population that doesn't want to live outside the US. |
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#10 (permalink) |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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I live in a state with several secession movements, past and present, though we weren't mentioned in the article. Here is a link to one of them:
http://cascadianow.org/ Southerners aren't alone by any means, and to think of secessionists as only being Southern white male bigots is incorrect. Oregon has been a hotbed of secession movements since it became a state. The funny thing is, the more Bush and Co. screw up in Washington, the more people talk about secession--I've had several discussions about it in recent weeks.
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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau |
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#11 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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Didn't we have a big war a little while ago to determine whether states can succeed or not? Didn't the guys on the "no, they can't" side win?
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#12 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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#13 (permalink) |
Riding the Ocean Spray
Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa
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To me this seems partly/mostly to be hovering around the federal vs states' rights argument. And this would not be something a socialist would see as a favorable path. In my view the federal government is/has gotten too big and powerful, and since they seem to do such a bad job at almost everything, less can only be better. I'm ready to give the local states guys a shot to see what they can do. Let's do that for 20 or so years and see how things look. But I feel bad for what might happen to states that depend on federal support for even the most basic needs. I propose that Pennsylvanians chip up and buy North Dakota as a summer camp location.
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#15 (permalink) | |||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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#16 (permalink) |
Banned
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"The South" shall not, in fact, ever "rise" again.
And I have to laugh every time someone stands behind the confederate flag and calls it a symbol of "heritage, not racism". There are probably about 4 people in the whole US who actually believe that, and actually aren't racists. Oh, and if "the south" wants to secede, they can't have Florida. lol |
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#17 (permalink) |
Wise-ass Latino
Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA
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Sounds quite treasonous, if you ask me. While they claim independent soverignity is the motivation behind their secessionist movement, the loss of revenue, the damage to the economy, and the compromise of national security (because the states that have secessionist movements are also home to large military bases) will undermine the federal government and hurt the states that remain.
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forever, now, secession, tomorrow |
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