Gay people in the (non-USA) military - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

clavus · 08-31-2007, 03:31 PM

Outside of the USA, what is the policy on openly gay people serving? Is this a source of contention in other countries, or is the status quo (whatever it may be) unchallenged?

And while we are on the subject, are there racial or religious prohibitions against serving in the military outside of the USA? For example, are Indios (sp?) excluded from the Mexican army? Can Muslims serve in India?

There was a time when race and religion could disqualify you from service in the USA, but we moved past that. Could sexual orientation be next? How has it worked out (or not worked out) in other places?

Seaver · 09-01-2007, 09:46 AM

The don't ask don't tell policy reflects the massive amount of fraternization policies the military has. It's not as simple as who can or can't date who, it extends all the way to friendships between officers and enlisted.

"That's dumb" you're thinking.. and it can be if enforced wrong.. "That has nothing to do with homosexuality" you're also thinking, just let me explain.

The sole reason the military has these restrictions is they do not want ANYTHING affecting the mentality of the soldier in combat. They do not want the man (or woman) altering their military decisions based on a sexual tie. During the best of situations it can lead to rash and unwise decisions which WILL get people killed. During the inevitable breakup/fights/arguments/infidelity/etc which will happen during relationships, it will affect moral, decision making, concentration on battlefield objectives, and most of all trust of the fellow soldier within the unit. With homosexuality we have the added possible complications of homophobia and the possibilities of of certain soldiers refusing to share foxholes/showers/etc. (yes I know, eventually they'll get over it like racial separations, but one step at a time). So the policy of the military is exclude anything which will be detrimental to the combat effectiveness as much as possible.

Now on to your other questions, Muslims do serve in India as police and military. There are racial prohibitions in various African countries, such as Sudan and other genocidal regiems. There are religious prohibitions in many Muslim countries, but then again in Saudi Arabia it's illegal to be a citizen and not be Muslim. In more places, like Syria/etc it's not in the books that I'm aware of, but there's no way you'd be in the military/police/government and not be Muslim. In Lebanon the military is set by law X% Muslim/Marionite Christian/Druze, as their government is.

Anyways, hope this helps.

Nimetic · 09-01-2007, 04:53 PM

As far as I know, gays are allowed in AU forces - and apparently partners are now recognized.

clavus · 09-03-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaver

In Lebanon the military is set by law X% Muslim/Marionite Christian/Druze, as their government is.

No shit? That's pretty wild.

ktspktsp · 09-03-2007, 11:38 AM

I don't think it is set in law, for the army. But with any public jobs, there are rough quotas that have to be respected otherwise people get pissed.

The parliament is actually made up of 64 christians and 64 muslims by law. The government has to represent all sects and is by convention half and half. The president is maronite christian, the prime minister sunni muslim, the head of the parliament shia muslim. The head of the army is maronite christian, and so is the head of the central bank, I believe. Etc, etc...

It's a very shitty system because it greatly reinforces sectarianism. There are arguments that it is a stabilizing force, but then there are times where it doesn't and all breaks loose.

Anyway, enough of that threadjack.

To say something about the thread topic, there are no openly gay people in the Lebanese Army, since it's still a taboo issue. Homosexuality is not a crime, but homosexual acts are. However there is definitely a thriving underground gay scene.

And the Icelandic army doesn't have any gay members in it. That's because there is no Icelandic army

Seaver · 09-03-2007, 07:13 PM

Well on this one I'll yield to kts. I was taught by my professor that the military is split % wise, but that may be only enforced at upper tier Generalship/etc or it could be completely false.

08-31-2007, 03:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
clavus pow! Location: NorCal	Gay people in the (non-USA) military Outside of the USA, what is the policy on openly gay people serving? Is this a source of contention in other countries, or is the status quo (whatever it may be) unchallenged? And while we are on the subject, are there racial or religious prohibitions against serving in the military outside of the USA? For example, are Indios (sp?) excluded from the Mexican army? Can Muslims serve in India? There was a time when race and religion could disqualify you from service in the USA, but we moved past that. Could sexual orientation be next? How has it worked out (or not worked out) in other places? __________________ Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

09-01-2007, 09:46 AM	#2 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	The don't ask don't tell policy reflects the massive amount of fraternization policies the military has. It's not as simple as who can or can't date who, it extends all the way to friendships between officers and enlisted. "That's dumb" you're thinking.. and it can be if enforced wrong.. "That has nothing to do with homosexuality" you're also thinking, just let me explain. The sole reason the military has these restrictions is they do not want ANYTHING affecting the mentality of the soldier in combat. They do not want the man (or woman) altering their military decisions based on a sexual tie. During the best of situations it can lead to rash and unwise decisions which WILL get people killed. During the inevitable breakup/fights/arguments/infidelity/etc which will happen during relationships, it will affect moral, decision making, concentration on battlefield objectives, and most of all trust of the fellow soldier within the unit. With homosexuality we have the added possible complications of homophobia and the possibilities of of certain soldiers refusing to share foxholes/showers/etc. (yes I know, eventually they'll get over it like racial separations, but one step at a time). So the policy of the military is exclude anything which will be detrimental to the combat effectiveness as much as possible. Now on to your other questions, Muslims do serve in India as police and military. There are racial prohibitions in various African countries, such as Sudan and other genocidal regiems. There are religious prohibitions in many Muslim countries, but then again in Saudi Arabia it's illegal to be a citizen and not be Muslim. In more places, like Syria/etc it's not in the books that I'm aware of, but there's no way you'd be in the military/police/government and not be Muslim. In Lebanon the military is set by law X% Muslim/Marionite Christian/Druze, as their government is. Anyways, hope this helps. __________________ "Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

09-03-2007, 07:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Seaver Junkie Location: Fort Worth, TX	Well on this one I'll yield to kts. I was taught by my professor that the military is split % wise, but that may be only enforced at upper tier Generalship/etc or it could be completely false. __________________ "Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

09-01-2007, 04:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nimetic Junkie Location: Melbourne, Australia	As far as I know, gays are allowed in AU forces - and apparently partners are now recognized.

09-03-2007, 11:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	I don't think it is set in law, for the army. But with any public jobs, there are rough quotas that have to be respected otherwise people get pissed. The parliament is actually made up of 64 christians and 64 muslims by law. The government has to represent all sects and is by convention half and half. The president is maronite christian, the prime minister sunni muslim, the head of the parliament shia muslim. The head of the army is maronite christian, and so is the head of the central bank, I believe. Etc, etc... It's a very shitty system because it greatly reinforces sectarianism. There are arguments that it is a stabilizing force, but then there are times where it doesn't and all breaks loose. Anyway, enough of that threadjack. To say something about the thread topic, there are no openly gay people in the Lebanese Army, since it's still a taboo issue. Homosexuality is not a crime, but homosexual acts are. However there is definitely a thriving underground gay scene. And the Icelandic army doesn't have any gay members in it. That's because there is no Icelandic army