Jinn

Have you ever had a religious individual (Christian or otherwise) tell you that they'll "be praying for you" or that they "prayed for you"? I have, and I think it's terribly condescending - as if to say I'm going to hell and/or my life will be horrible if they don't pray for me? I'd like to get both sides of the spectrum - do you think it's condescending when someone says they will pray for you, and (for you religious folk), what do you mean by it? Do you intend to "save" the

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abaya

When I was a religious person, I said it all the time. I hardly ever followed through with it. Thus, I do sometimes get offended when I hear it form people who remind me of myself back then. Maybe because I know I've turned into the anti-christ since I left Christianity, lol... so I KNOW people are still praying for me, and I want them to stop.

On the other hand, I know many goodly religious folk who really do mean it... and even some semi-religious folk who pray regularly for me (like my mom). When it comes down to it, it doesn't hurt you... and if it makes them feel better, then what harm does it do to just let it roll off your back? Better than someone saying, "I'll be hoping that you roll over and die today, buddy!"

In the end, nothing really to get worked up about, unless it's happening every single day from the same person, or on some other regular basis (and thus very annoying). That would make me say something to stop it, after a while.

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LoganSnake

I'm in the same mindset as JinnKai. I've had people say that to me when they found out I was an atheist and I just wanted to smack them.

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pig

i understand what you mean jinn: but i think you have to think about it from within their worldview, because that is the perspective they are making it from. in that worldview, praying for others is as natural as anything else. the only time i dislike someone saying it to me is if they know i'm an atheist, and they are praying that i might come to the light, so to speak. but just praying for my general health or whatnot - nah. let 'em go right ahead.

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hambone

I guess I am one of "them"...(man I hate that it has to be stereotyped..)

I find it condescending as pig says if someone says it to someone in a way that seems to say the person is a lost cause and that the person who says they will pray for them is somehow better.

However, take a look at it from my point of view. As a Christian, I believe in God and pray regularly. If I tell you that I will pray for you, I would not ever mean this in a demeaning way. I pray about my own life situations, my family, my friends, heck, even my pastor. Those I care about, I take the time during prayer to spend some time focused on them.

If I truly believe in the God of the Bible, and I hear that my buddy is going through a tough time, of course I will pray for him/her. If I think that God can positively effect this person's predicament, why wouldn't I do that?

And how is this different, in the sense of the reasoning behind it, than some "sending good thoughts"? I don't "send good thoughts", but it makes me feel good when someone hears about my troubles and says that, since it shows they are invested in me and care.

It is only condescending if said in a self-righteous way, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.

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The_Jazz

I am as neutral as they come as far as religion goes. Honestly, I just don't care about God and the rest; it's never been a big part of my life and I don't anticipate that it really will be.

That said, I don't see what the big deal is. Unless someone says that they're praying for you to convert to their brand of religious Kool-Aid, I think that you need to think about the underlying message. A believer telling me that they're praying for me because I'm ill or feeling bad or anything of the sort is a positive message in my book. If it's a conversion attempt, it's still a positive in some ways because they think that I'm worth saving.

In other words, I agree with pig in my own hamhanded, inarticulate way.

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RenaissanceII

From an agnostic on his deathbed, on the prayers of friends and others:

this man died within 48 hours of saying this.

Dr. David Brudnoy

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I Wish You Well.

spectre

That never bothered me. It may seen condescending but it's really just a way of trying to be nice. What bothers me is the "god has a plan." That's what turned me into an atheist. 5 years spent in and out of hospitals going through all kinds of horrible things, and I kept hearing that phrase. Eventually, it pissed me off enough that I finally lost all faith.

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shesus

I don't get upset about it if someone says they're going to pray for me. Who knows, it might work and God (haha) knows I needed all the good luck I could get.

I still believe with all my heart that my grandfather praying day after day that I would quit smoking is one of the things that gave me the strength to finally wake up one morning and never want a cigarette again. Stupid maybe, but when you hear every week that someone is praying for you to stop who knows.

And I know they're praying that I find religion again. I do feel a void in my spiritual life, but whoa...what a tangent. Just proving that if someone believes enough, they can have some sort of influence.

Anyway, I'm not offended. If someone wants to pray for me go for it. If they're lying about praying about me...then I don't want their prayers because lying is a sin in that religion that last time I checked. If they're lying like that then they obviously don't have the power of prayer people need to make the difference.

AMEN

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Val_1

I don't get upset by it. Some of them seriously think they are helping (because prayer works so well). Others just say it because, "that's what you're supposed to say".

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albania

I’m an atheist and I pray on occasion.* I wouldn’t care if people told me they were going to pray for me, even if they had a condescending attitude. Since they can do it anyway with or without my consent I wouldn’t mind, and because I find value in prayer myself I would encourage them pray if it helped their state of mind in some way.



*Because this statement might be slightly confusing I thought I’d explain it further, but it deserves an asterisk since it has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. If someone were to ask me if I believed in god I would probably respond as follows: I do not believe God, the traditional omnipotent being in the sky, exist. However, if I were to refer to God, in all likelihood, I am talking about the immutable physical laws of nature. That to me is God. It has been my experience that through trying times prayer can be very therapeutic. But, praying to the universal law of gravitation or what have you seems inane. So when I pray, I do pray to the omnipotent being in the sky, which I don’t believe exists. The only way I reconcile this contradiction is by saying that you don’t have to believe to hope.

Psycho Dad

I suppose someone expressing that they are willing to pray for me is a better alternative than saying they wish I were dead. Neither sentiment is going to have an effect on how my life will turn, but at least I can believe that one carries good intentions.

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Midnight

Religion isn't something people want to get into with me, for various reasons.

Someone telling me they will pray for me always garners the same response.

I want to pat them on the head, chuckle and say "you go do that. run along now"

JustJess

Can I get an AMEN for pig's post? No? Hm. I don't mind the praying for me, tho it can feel a bit embarrassing since I don't subscribe to that belief system - I feel like I'm being deceitful by accepting the prayer! The only thing that annoys me is how some people will respond to every question with "I'm blessed!". When they say it that often, I can't help but think it's rote and not truly how they feel. Ugh. Yeah, yeah you're blessed, now shut up.

Maybe I'm cranky today, tho.

And Hambone... you're not a stereotypical anything. Just in case you wondered.

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abaya

Heh, I'm blessed... I remember that one.

The thing that got me (when I was in my waning Christian phase) was the line, "In Christ," at the end of a letter or e-mail. That one annoyed me to no end. I was like, what's this, our secret handshake or something? Thankfully, no one writes that to me anymore, because I guess I'm no longer "in Christ" with them.

But I think most Christians are well-meaning folk, really. As long as they are not forcing it on me, it's alright.

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snowy

I'm warning you now, if I know your real name I've probably prayed for you. Of course, my prayers consist of asking for good blessings for you, not praying for your conversion. I also pray that the people I love and care for stay safe and stay healthy.

Surely there's nothing wrong in praying for those reasons.

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hambone

I'm praying for all you heathens

Seriously though, I think it would benefit all to really try and look beyond the words, to the intention, coming from religious or non-religious folk. It is usually pretty evident if the words are something like "Christian-ese" (just some word or phrase for that is commonplace in a religious setting, for whatever reason) or if it is truly heartfelt.

The basis of Christianity is Christ's love, not all this ceremonial BS. I think ceremony and the like has some purpose as a manifestation of your true belief, but that should not be the whole core, to "seem" like a Christian by going through the motions.

I am equally as embarrassed by those patronizing, holier than thou 'Christians' as the atheist's present seem to be annoyed/angered by them.

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JustJess

And Snowy, that's completely appreciated. That's nice. That's kind. Just because I don't do the whole god and church thing doesn't mean there isn't some good in it. I remember an old co-worker letting me know regularly, if I was having a rough time, she'd say "well, I'll for this to get better for you tonight." And I was really touched - to me, whatever else you believe, that person is showing care and concern, and that's just wonderful.

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Cynthetiq

do you get equally freaked out when someone replies "God bless you." after you sneeze?

hey if it makes them feel better to say that they will jump over hoops and dance with a candle on their heads in my name, good on them. just don't get wax on the floor and don't kick me by accident when you are gyrating.

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DaveOrion

Although some Christians feel the need to tell others they will pray for them, I do not. This is almost always a turn off to non-Christians and Christians alike, just as quoting scripture and verse is. It satisfies a need in the christian to show the world what a wonderfully good person they are. I must be a good person if I tell others I'll pray for them, and I must be a great person if I quote scripture & verse.

When I pray, I pray in secret. When I give, I give in secret. Sound familiar???

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kurty[B]

Depending on my comfort level with the person saying it, I sometimes respond "thank you, I'll be thinking about that while I'm having premarital sex tonight". I was so happy when my parents finally saw the humor in that statement. Needless to say they or anyone I've said that to has never told me they will "pray for me" since.

abaya

Yes, DaveMatrix, it does sound familiar. This was the thought kicking around in my head during my first post, when I said that I got annoyed with Christians who said it because they reminded me of ME, in my Holier Than Thou days. That need to be an *outwardly* godly person, instead of a inwardly godly one, which is the only one that really matters. I had a real problem with that, because I was surrounded by very *outwardly* godly people (including myself) and I could never find the reality in it... how deep did it go?

Of course, if you are walking around keeping prayers and giving in secret, but feeling mighty proud of yourself for it (using the general "you" here), I don't suppose that's any better, is it? I tried that for a while too, and still ened up feeling like a self-righteous asshole most of the time. Somehow, humility is damn hard to come by, no matter what intentions we have... one reason I had to stop with the Christianity all together. I was done with "praying for other people" and feeling morally superior, no matter how hard I tried not to be. How can you not feel morally superior when you think everyone else (outside the fold) is going to hell?

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Infinite_Loser

Would you rather them tell you that you're going to hell?

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hambone

Um, cause its not a morals thing....

Really, there are guidelines for living and sins and all that. But behavior is not the thing sending someone to hell, if looking at this from a purely Bible based Christianity. It is a belief of Christ as a savior that gets you to heaven so that when your morals do go to crap and you commit a sin, it alright.

I believe that if you think Christianity is a set of rules not to break and morals to uphold, then you got it wrong, imho.

Not that it really should matter to one not following the Bible, but I will quote a well known Bible verse to make my point of what a Christian that believes the Bible should believe :
John 14:6 “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

it doesn't say through me and doing activities A, B, C and adhering to this high moral standard.

But enough sidetracking, people can continue to discuss the main point of the thread

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ratbastid

From my perspective, it's harmless and even a little sweet. They want to help, you know? And they're appealing to the most powerful thing that their world-view conceives of for that help. What does it matter that from my world-view it looks like they're sending text messages to an imaginary bearded old man in the sky? In reality, my world-view is no more true or real than theirs.

abaya

Well, I wasn't so much projecting that question onto other Christians... it was a reflection more on me and the way *I* thought as a Christian. (My apologies if you took that personally; it was unintended.)

I was taught that people would go to hell if they did not accept Christ. To me, that was all tied up with moral issues as well. It wasn't so much about doing A, B, and C wrong... but about rejecting Christ as savior and being unrepentant for their sins, which meant eternal separation from God (hell). That was my understanding.

And over time, I found I could not maintain that kind of superiority... not because I was doing all the right A, B, and C things, but because I had chosen Christ. Which somehow gave me a ticket to heaven, while everyone else got screwed no matter what the various circumstances of their lives were. It was not the kind of justice (or grace) I was interested in, no matter which way I looked at it.

/hereby ending a complete and total threadjack...

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Psycho Dad

I think I get that more often than offers of prayer.

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noodle

^ Me, too, Psycho Dad.

Except from our Chaplain at work. If I even express a frustration or irritation, she'll give me an "I'll pray for you." I usually tell her something along the lines of whatever floats her boat, but it's getting really annoying. One of these days I just know I'm going to lose it and ask her flat out, "You're going to pray for what? think I can't handle it myself? Thanks for that faith in me." She knows that I don't believe in her god. It drives me nuts.
If people are saying it in passing and truly mean it, fine. Whatever floats their boats, too. But don't be condescending and pray for me to "have the strength" to change whatever I'm bitching about. That's where I get offended. I can pretty much handle it, thanks.

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Midnight

Infinate_loser - re; would you rather them tell you you're going to hell

rofl. my reaction would be similar to that as well. I'd just laugh and tell them "of course I am!"

sorry. religious people amuse me more often than they annoy me really. if they want to pray for me - well hell, it couldn't hurt, and it might make them feel better or feel like they had done their part for getting "god's" attention on my behalf. they want to tell me I'm going to hell - well thats fine by me too - because according to their beliefs, i AM. lol.

analog

Saying you'll pray for someone who is sick, hurt, emotionally wrought, etc., is one thing. It's their brand of genuine show of caring and compassion, akin to anyone saying "I'll be thinking about you" or "Good luck" or "best wishes".

For those, it's just a sincere wish of good/improved fortune from their value set.

This is completely different from the condescending "I'll pray for your soul"-type situation when someone issues the "I'll pray for you" because they believe you're going to hell and think it's up to them to save you.

THAT situation always gets a similar reaction from me, though I'm usually a third party, and not the one being told "I'll pray for you"...

"And I will slaughter a newborn child in sacrifice to Satan, that he may bless you with the blood of the innocent."

1 woman actually ran away- RAN away when I said that to a friend after she'd admonished him with her "I will pray for you" crap. Her scurrying away was possibly the funniest thing I've ever seen. To be fair, the fact that she was holding her baby at the time likely added to her keystone-cop-like exit.

la petite moi

I think in certain occasions, it's very condescending- like when a Christian finds out about an atheist and says they are praying for their soul, etc. However, in some instances, the person is just extending hope and faith that a person will get better from an illness, for example.

And hey, I just read analog's response, and it is nearly identical to mine. Yep.

mixedmedia

THEY believe they are doing something good for you. It's the thought that counts. Get over yourselves....Really.

ratbastid...I'm not going to be the umpteen millioneth person to say it

Buddhists believe that any good thoughts that are put out into the universe are capable of reaping goodness in the world. Try thinking about it that way.

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Baraka_Guru

I don't find this condescending; actually, I find it touching. To me, "I will pray for you" means "I hope the best for you." It is a kind of human connection that one establishes as a means of bringing a hope of peace to another within their society.

I think we'd be better off as a whole if more people prayed for one another. Even if there were no God, it still has a benefit. For those who find it condescending, I think this is because there are some who find any kind of help as such. People sometimes react this way to favours. For example, say a neighbour learns that your husband is quite sick with the flu and comes over with a batch of fresh, homemade chicken soup. You might react negatively to this, thinking, "My neighbour believes I cannot look after my own husband!" when, in fact, the neighbour was simply hoping to lend a hand in a way they found useful, because they wish your husband good heath and think that you are perhaps busy with other things. Maybe you have kids or a demanding job.

Although prayer isn't as physically evident as a benefit, it does have its effects. What others think and say affect us all. Words can harm just as they can heal. Have you ever felt great stress or sadness or anger from what someone has said to you? Has a single, simple sentence spoken negatively ruined your entire day? Your week?

Prayer and other expressions of hope can also have an impact, but in a good way. They are positive vibes that are communicated between us. They should not appear condescending if they are the genuine workings of compassion, if their aim is to make for a better world.

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Midnight

analog -

ROFLMAO!!! that is So something I would have done 10 years ago!
ooooh boy. I guess my sadist streak is fading in my old age

Lady Sage

They think they are doing you a favor.

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Charlatan

It makes me uncomfortable when someone offers to pray for me but ultimately I don't have a problem with it (except for the condescending part where they hope to "save" me from being an atheist... that pisses me off).

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snowy

YES...that is my favorite piece of Scripture! I'm glad you quoted it here.

And MM, your reference to Buddhism is an excellent way of putting how I feel about prayer into words. Thank you.

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Ourcrazymodern?

I pray for understanding.

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ratbastid

I ran into an acquaintance at the grocery store the other day--somebody I know from the Swing Dance society in our area. I've danced with her a bunch, she's a lot of fun on the floor, but I can count the number of actual conversations we've had on one hand.

She stopped me and told me about her daughter, who has just gone missing. Her daughter was sexually assaulted as an early teen, and her life really spiraled downhill. She went through just about everything a parent can go through with her daughter, and when we talked in the grocery store last week, her daughter had been missing for eight days. She was obviously scared, and very tired.

After listening to her, I gave her a hug, and said, "I don't really pray, but I'll be thinking about both of you." I wished I could actually do something for her, fix it in some way. But if there's nothing she or the police can do, there's damn sure nothing I can do. Except be thinking about her. THAT I can do.

When people say "I'll pray for you" the way I meant "I'll be thinking about you", I appreciate it.

cyrnel

I can see the kindness aspect, but I hope the givers can understand alternative perspectives. When it comes down to it, prayer is for the prayer. When I've been in bad spots I'd much rather they shared with me or somehow got involved. Telling me you're praying for me is akin to throwing a Spock collector plate to a drowning man.

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