Rekna

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?cnn=yes
My church in SLC was also planning on having a party on Sunday. They had ordered food, jumping castles for the kids, dunk tanks, and many other things. The idea was to turn it into a carnival where kids can have fun while the parents enjoy the game.

The NFL has made a huge mistake here and I hope they pay for it from their pockets. I guess the NFL would rather have kids at home alone and parents getting drunk at a bar instead of them all enjoying it together at a church.

Willravel

If you watch football, you've gotta be familiar with that little disclaimer that they have about distribution, copying, and showing. Knowing that, any responsible superbowl party thrower should check to make sure that they aren't breaking the law. What if the NFL had found out after the party and decided to prosecute? I know it's a pain in the ass to not be able to watch the game on a giant screen in the house of god (wtf?), but it's the law and it does make sense.

Had they asked for permission first, it's entirely possible that the NFL would have said yes.

Rekna

Do you realize that the NFL stated that anyone showing the game on a TV with more than 55 inches is violating there copyright? Why is it ok for bars to play the superbowl and not pay anything but not a church?

Willravel

My buddy owns a bar downtown. He is paying. Why are you assuming that bars don't pay?

Also, what's with football in a church? I'm an athiest and even I think it's disrespectful. Isn't that a breach of the first commandment?

shakran

No, actually it doesn't. Look at it this way. Let's say 100 people were gonna get together at this church (btw, no disrespect here - there's more to most churches than just the sanctuary) to watch the game. Now, those 100 people are gonna watch the game anyway, whether it's with their friends or at home. What difference does it make?

the superbowl is broadcast over the air. A case could possibly be made that the NFL is violating FCC regs, because you're not supposed to stop anyone from receiving anything broadcast on public airwaves.

Frankly the media rights frenzy in this country has gotten absurdly draconian. If you broadcast something, that's it. You should realize that lots of people will see it and not all of them will or should be writing you a check for the priviledge.


I highly doubt that. Take it from a broadcaster, the NFL is one of the biggest asshole organizations in the country. They make wild profits off of us broadcasting their games, yet they place so many absurd restrictions on that broadcast it's not even funny. For years just about everyone even remotely involved with the broadcast of anything NFL has been pissed at this modern American mafia.

Willravel

No, no, I understand they are assholes. In a perfect world, we'd all be able to watch and even record the superbowl for ourselves and the NFL would just have to sit there and take it. The fact is that the law protects them. It's like downloading movies from bit torrent. It might be a moral gray area for most people, but legally it's cut and dry. Until someone makes a good case to (and bribes) the FCC, it's going to stay this way.


I'm just pissed because Battlestar has been postponed a week because of a football game.

Rekna

from this link, quoted by an NFL spokesman

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249539,00.html

How is providing families a fun healthy environment to enjoy something that typically involves lots of alcohol without the alcohol dishonorable to God? I could go into lots of biblical evidence as to why this would be ok but I don't want to side track this thread.

Willravel

Church /= community center. Churches are built to put a roof over the heads of those who are worshiping god. Don't you think there's something wrong about going there to watch sports? Maybe we should go to church to find an alcohol free place to watch Grey's Anatomy or American Idol?

My friend owns a bar that happens to show the Super Bowl. It's not, by any means, a sports bar.

pan6467

Professional sports are patheticly greedy, unfortunately they have a monopoly on the game so to speak.

I was always told by people if you don't charge and you don't use the name they can't do anything to you.

Basically, if a bar simply says come watch football here on Sunday..... it could be high school games...... everyone knows it's the NFL but they aren't using the "name" as an endorsement for their bar. Now, if you charge a fee to get in, then you have to pay the NFL a certain amount or %age.

Now, the church in question sounds like they wanted to use the name as advertisement..... unfortunately they can't do that.

Me? If I were to want to have a *name cannot be used* party, I'd simply put out a sign that said, "come watch football on Sunday, we have a 55" screen and will gladly accept donations." I'd play a flag football game, maybe some high scvhool's game or something and then that big game.

Then if the NFL raised a stink, we watched football..... don't exactly recall what games we saw.

Shakran, you are right about FCC regs. Problem is noone will enforce them because they know the NFL will then take the game to cable or pay per view. And since the network makes BIG ASS money on the game they won't do a damned thing to help the viewers.

I truly believe all pro sports should be boycotted until the owners and players will accept accountability to the fans. (No moving of teams on whims or holding cities hostage, Sal caps fair to ALL teams, etc.)

but that's just me.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Nizzle

Why are Christians such martyr's?

Let me explain something to you. Because an exception was made for someone besides yourself, does not mean you are being targetted. The NFL is what it is -- a corporation. They have the values of other corporations that deal in entertainment. Check out the MPAA or RIAA lobbyist groups to get an idea.

Your church is charging money and using their trademarked name as promotion. Expect exactly what you are asking for. Is it right? No, honestly, I don't think so. But this is a larger issue in corporate America. WHY must you insist on making it an "anti-church" issue? You don't deserve special privileges over the rest of us, that's for sure, and you damn well better believe they will take the same action against anyone (not already excepted) trying to make a buck off of their trademark.

Let me sum this up: IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION, THE NFL DOESN'T HATE GOD OR FREEDOM. THEY LIKE MONEY AND THEIR LAWYERS WHO DEFEND IT.

As far as a church charging for an NFL event. I do not think this is "blasphemy". The church has traditionally been a community sort of thing, and this falls well within that. Charging for a sponsored event is sometimes just a necessity to cover costs. I don't think what the church did is wrong. I just don't feel your outrage over this is justified. This is just how it works; being a good Christian does not exclude you from what the rest of us have to deal with.

Edit: To make my position a little clear, I think it's justified to be annoyed by this. Making it a personal issue (see title: "NFL Bans churches") bugs the hell out of me.

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Nizzle

Sultana

Sorry will, this is 100% incorrect. Back in the day when churches were much more a part of people's daily lives; the synagog, temple, cathedral, church or what have you was absolutely the hub of community. It was often a place of worship/town hall/bureaucratic administration center/Communcations focal point, everything. It was *highly* relevant to everyday life, which is another reason why excommunication (or insert the appropriate term for the religion) was especially problematic.

As long as whatever's being done is up to the church's standards, and it's not interferring with classes or anything else important going on at that time, why not? From the church's standpoint, becoming a social focal point is a very good thing, it provides a place where like-minded folks can gather and have fun, and be more relevant in the modern man's day-to-day life. It helps to build a sense of community within that group.

I don't even attend church anymore, but I know about hosting social events. I think having a SuperBowl (tm) party at a church facility is a fabulous idea. It supports the congregation and their interests, and can also serve as a non-threatening, fun outreach.

It ain't all about praying and holy water. It's about life. Well, it should be, anyways.

Edited to add:
I do think it's a bit inflamatory to say "NFL bans churches". It's not a war on christianity. They (the NFL) would be @$$-holes to anyone they can intimidate, regardless. I hope the church in question works a way around it.

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Mister Coaster

It's simple copyright laws. They are on the books, they are easily accessed by the public, and if broken, the NFL has every legal right to persue action.

That being said, this is really lame and can only make them (the NFL) look bad. They won't lose a single penny of profit if this church has a Super Bowl party vs. calling it The Big Game party.

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Willravel

Whether they are a hub for a community isn't relevant. Parks can be community hubs, too, but holding a large, impromptu church service on the playground would be innapropriate. Churches may have sometimes acted as centers of a community, but they have always been a place of worship. The litteral meaning of "church" is house of god. I know I'm 100% correct on that. The question would be: why has the church the best option for these people to watch a football game? The answer is that the church is not so much a house of god, but more a social club.
Again, this isn't really my bag as I've left the church, but football /= worshiping god. When the church has spaghetti dinners or aa meetings they are doing so to bring more people to the faith and help people. This, on the other hand, is simply for entertainment. I would expect that more christians would be up in arms about this.
If it were clear that it was an outreach program and that they actually got permission to play it, maybe taking donations for the poor or something, then I'd think it was a brilliant idea. That's not the case. It's entrtainment and socializing. No god about it.
I don't want this to turn into a discussion about what faith or religion should or shouldn't be. I've already answered those questions for myself and that's for another thread. It makes me chuckle that a football party has started to spark a conversation about the fundamental princeples of religion. TFP has way too many smart people.

TexanAvenger

Come on, will. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Willravel

Oh boy, I hope you're joking.

Rekna

Sorry will but the biblical meaning of church is not a building but the people, the body of Christ. That is the Church. And as for worshiping God, the best way to worship God is to love God and love your neighbor, the entire commandments are summarized by those two statements. Providing a safe place for people to come and watch the game and love on each other is doing exactly that.

My church (not the one in this article) was planning on having one and the charge was $5 per person merely to help cover the costs of food. The church looses lots of money on this event but considers it worth it. Now what about those sports bars that pay nothing to the NFL and charge cover charges to get in, make lots of money off sales, ect.

In addition, no one has commented on the 55 inch thing. What about a person at home watching it on their 60 inch tv?

TexanAvenger

Who, me?

Brewmaniac

Most churches have community rooms where they invite members and all people from town or anywhere as fellow human beings to share numerous things such as picnics, dinners, movies, speakers etc. Hoping to find and keep members.

What's the difference?

Their mistake was using the words "Super Bowl" party instead of "Big Game" or "Football Game"


Dead on!


_

__________________
"That's a joke... I say, that's a joke, son"

dirtyrascal7

Update: Looks like the church is planning to go on with the Super Bowl party despite the NFL's demands... http://news.yahoo.com/s/wrtv/20070203/lo_wrtv/10916537

Personally, I'm glad they are doing this. It seems they know what they're up against and are ready for a fight, which is good because they are sure to get one. The copywrite law the NFL is using to halt their Super Bowl party is out of date and needs revised anyway. I think it needs to be focused more on the intent of the broadcast, rather than focusing on limiting the size of TV that can be used.

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MSD

Last I checked, the commonly accepted text of the first commandment is "I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have other gods beside me."



So this kills our plan to use the new school auditorium equipment to project in HD on a 13 foot screen, doesn't it?

smooth

yeah, now you're talking my kind of party...

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ngdawg

Actually, the church my spouse goes to does hold a service/picnic every September in the public park. If I'm not mistaken, anyone who pays and applies for a permit can conduct services, etc., in a public park.
Of which you are in the higher echelon
But....I think the only gripe that NFL or anyone else could have is promoting what essentially a 'private' party as being connected to a trademarked name, ie; Superbowl(tm).
Actually, I think the dumbest part about it is the '55 inch screen'....kinda blows for anyone who has a home theater.
There's a great deal of socializing within church confines. One nearby has 'movie nights'; another sponsors a Valentine's father-daughter dance and of course, there's Bingo....(although I'm not so sure about that last one being 'wholesome'-ever hear those blue-haired ladies cuss when they lose?)

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Bill O'Rights

From one athiest to another then...why is it disrespectful?
If a bunch of Christians (who also happen to be football fans)want to get together, in the basement of their church, and watch the game...who cares? Don't get your undies in a bunch. Save for when it really is an afront.

Where they might have run afoul, was with the admission fee. Beyond that the NFL needs to stfu. Can you say big freakin' black eye?

"Thou shalt have the freedom to speak the name of the Lord, thy God"?

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Rekna

Are party was canceled. There was a rumor that the NFL backtracked on this. However, it was to late as our church had already committed to donating all the food to the homeless. So after church on Sunday the church went down to the park near the homeless shelter and handed out all of the food. I'm glad some good came of this.

oldtimer

The NFL has always been an ass about things like this. The NBA too. You just don't hear about them.

They take copyrighting too seriously and it goes on anyway. I can't record the game you say?!?! Well fuck off! They can't tell me what to do.

Almost as silly as 'critics' saying Prince's halftime performance had 'phallic' properties while using his guitar and being projected onto the screen. WTF? I didn't see any of that.

__________________
Slowly but surely getting over the loss of TFP v. 3.0.
Where the hell am I?....
Showering once a month does not make you a better person.

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shakran

yeah, just want to mention, btw, that the NFL gets their stadiums HEAVILLY subsidized by the taxpaying public, then they pull crap like this. No displaying it on a larger than 55 inch TV? That's bullshit. Buy your own damn stadium then. It's not like they can't afford it. Then after getting that publicly subsidized stadium as a nice christmas present, they kick local media out of the games - - the local media that are bringing highlights of the games to the people that gave them the stadium. As I said above, the NFL mafia is one of the biggest asshole organizations in the country.

Willravel

As a secular humaist, I feel it's as much my responsibility to respect the religons of other as it is for them to respect the fact that I believe in science and humanity. While I don't believe in a Chritsian god anymore, I did spend the first two decades of my life studying the Bible and other religious texts, and I feel I've earned the right to throw the bible at people.

Do you remember in Mark 11:15-17?
It's so cut and dry that, according to Luke, Jesus braided a whip (can you imagine Jesus sitting in a corner, seething and braiding a whip? Time to go hide) in order to show the salesmen how serious he was.

The simple lesson from this passage is that the house of god is for prayer and reflection of God and the church. Bringing a blatently commercial Super Bowl into the house of God is somehing the bible wants us to understand is so wrong that Jesus would litterally kick your ass for it.

Gilda

In Job: A Comedy of Justice, a novel by Robert A. Heinlein that brings a science fiction approach to fundamentalist Christianity, there is a church that resembles this one in a way. After Sunday services, a big screen comes down in front of the pews and they show the Sunday games and serve refreshments.

It's a popular church.

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Pip

It's not so much about the NFL not lose profit as some other unrelated organisation (possibly) profiting from using their name and brands. *shrugs*

The IOC is just as picky with the Olympics. Last summer we had a case with a local pizza house that promoted an OG-pizza without permission. The Swedish Olympic Comittee pressed charges, but after a lot of bad publicity they were dropped. (On one hand, yay! for the little guy "winning" against the big guys, on the other hand Swedish media has way too much power over legal cases in my opinion.)