You know what....I was thinking about this and read through it again. The feeling that I'm getting is that the non-smokers (not all of you) but some of you are self-righteous. I know that ratbastid said that previously, but I think it needs said again. If people can call smokers weak, stupid, and little shit litterers, then I think you need to know that maybe, just maybe the people who make these comments are a bit overdramatic.

And I'm sorry to say this...maybe I am a horrible person, but oh well....
I would and have blown smoke in the face of people like that. Even including my best friend when she got on her high-horse.
I do always ask if it's ok to have a smoke...before I take it out. I hate when people are like "Do you mind if I *lighter clicks* smoke?"
I also make it a point not to smoke in public places unless others are smoking, like a bar, or around people in cramped outdoor areas. But when someone who comes over next to me and then complains about how I'm going to kill them...well those people are fair game. Why did you walk over to me when you can see I'm smoking?

I'm not really taking the comments seriously because it's not worth it. I am not trying to start a fight. I mentioned in my previous post that there is a valid concern. But be realistic about it and don't get on us at TFP. We're not in the same room with you when we smoke. In fact, to prove this point,....at this very moment I'm blowing smoke at my computer monitor...you're all going to die now...bwahahahahaha!!!!!!

I love smokers who are, at the least, considerate.

Last night I went out with my best friend and his family. His parents are divorced and have been for almost 10 years or so, so to say the least it was an interesting gathering to begin with. We were sitting in the patio area of a nice pizza place here in town, and his dad just lit up without asking us, which to me was not okay. Then his dad got chewed out by one of the workers at the pizza place because you're not supposed to smoke within 10 feet of a doorway in our town. The worker handled the situation so poorly that both my best friend are going to go back and lodge complaints against him. Just because he's smoking isn't an excuse to be rude, but the same goes--if you're going to smoke in my airspace, at least ask first.

after watching this thread and all its sister threads running around on the boards lately, it seems to me that perhaps this is a distinction of semantics and a case of rampant oversimplification.

you can be a good person, without being the *best* person you can be. most people i know who smoke will admit that they probably would be healthier, and would save a lot of money, if they didn't smoke. does smoking adversely affect your health? you betcha. does it make you "bad" person? too simple of an analysis. good and bad, in what context? would it make you a bad sprinter? probably so. would it make you a bad teacher. i don't really see much evidence for that.

so if you consider a person as the holistic sum of all his/her components, then being a smoker would probably count as a negative against a person, in certain situations. some of these situations are personal, some of them are social. but that doesn't mean a person isn't still a "good" person; it just means that they have a habit which may be disadvantageous.

if we're going to oversimplify and and go holistic: i would rather have a smoker, who is nice and courteous - than a non-smoker who is a sociopathic killer, for instance. i'd say the first is a good person who has a potentially bad quality, the latter is a bad person with a marginally redeeming quality.

edit: i realized that my post was more focussed on the individual aspects of being a smoker, rather than the social. i assert that the same analysis applies. its too simple of an analysis, in subjective terms, to label someone a "bad" person because they smoke around others. "smoke around others" is highly contextual, and again - it might be a negative trait, but its not the persons only trait. a person can still be good and have annoying habits; otherwise, we're stuck with a definition of "The Good," (meaning the Best) which of course no one will attain.

You DO know that cigarette smoke contains CO, right?

And methane.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...orgeCarlin.jpg

"Mind if I smoke?" "No, mind if I FART?"

/Marv
Secure in his flatulinity.

I'm a smoker and figure if i'm going to DIE then it's going to be on my terms...oh by the way, "How ya all been? Long time no post)

I do my best to not smoke around others that don't like it and I always ask if it bothers them, if they say yes I don't light up. I never smoke around a child...EVER!!!

Now what I don't like is being treated like shit because I smoke especially from those who think they have all the answers for everyone elses issues yet they can't pay attention long enough to understand that there are bigger issues in this worlld besides smokers that are far more dangerous.

Sorry, I will BE GOING THE FUCK OFF as this subject pisses me off...ESPECIALLY when they are going to vote ANOTHER TAX on my little habit.:mad:

Let's see now, Oh..I remember about five to six years ago here in California when Rob (MEATHEAD)Reiner came up with a 50 cent tax on a pack to help with day cares, after school programs, and money to help the school systems out here.............BIG FUCKING JOKE!! All they do is tax the smokers, start another group of beauracrats that pay themselves large salaries and then MAYBE if there is money left over they may help the kids. They haven't did jack shit for the kids with that money.

So now they are going to raise the taxes to the tune of 2.50 a pack out here once again if it's voted on and this money is once again to go to some bullshit program to make fat cats wealthy and the people don't get shit as usual oh and the best part is the hospitals are part of it.........LMFAO!!

So tax a smoker because the illegals can't pay for their health care:lol:

I smoke so there for I pay more taxes then most if you include the money on each pack I smoke.

So what are you all going to do once all the smokers quit and they come after your asses to make up for that lost tax revenue?

How about we tax chocolate for the fat fucks that blame their weight on McDonalds, Burger King, Oreos, Snikers..etc..etc?

Lets tax alcohol some more for the misery it brings upon some families when their loved one becomes an alcoholic? I know this for a fact as I was one of those alcoholics...comming up on 12 FUCKING GREAT YEARS in 5 days!!

Now...some will say and they always do "But when you get sick and are dying in the hospital I have to pay for you" Well, if I have HEALTH INSURANCE which I do how the fuck are you paying for me??? You're not so STFU!!

I look at life this way and it makes it a whole lot easier.

God is the Director and we are the Actors and until he says "CUT" on my life then I'm going to enjoy a smoke while I can, I am going to help those less fortunate then myself to pay back for all those years I was a piece of shit drunk. I am going to do my best to be a wonderful person to all of those who cross my path, well that is until they piss me the fuck off!

Do this for those of you who don't smoke and see which hurts your lungs more:

Stand on the busiest corner in your city for four hours and BREATH DEEP during that time standing there as the cars, buses, and trucks go by then go home and see how you feel, how your clothes smell and what comes out of your lungs when you hock a good loogy.


Now, hang around a smoker all day and I mean for 24 hours and see how you feel, smell, etc.

Also remember that there are some who hmmmmmm, how do we put this nicely? Fuck it lets be blunt, there are some people who smoke, who don't brush their teeth, chew gum, suck a mint, and don't wash their ass or clothes and these are the ones that smell like an ashtray, but then again that is THEIR RIGHT!!

You see God gave each one of us the greatest gift of all, but most of us overlook that gift and insist on forcing our own way of thinkinig upon others who really just want to live our life in peace. But we still overlook that little GIFT that we alll take for granted...FREEWILL!!!

Anyhooo....I have to vent a tad bit as when the smoking issue comes up it pisses me the fuck off, if you have not guessed that by now.

Oh...I would also like to add that my best friends 17 year old daughter was killed a month ago by a drunk driver who was going the wrong way on the freeway, not someone smoking a marlboro.

So do I consider myself a good person? YES!! I pay for two peoples stay in the rehab I got sober in each month, I help those less fortunate then myself, I do my best to treat all those who are in my life with respect, dignity..that is unless they are just real fuckityfuckfucks, I have a great work ethic, I don't lie, cheat or steal, I don't pretend to be someone I am not and best of all I tell it like it is which means I don't sugar coat jack shit.

So i'll keep on smoking, I have great insurance that I pay dearly for, and in closing if you ever see me hit by a car, a bus, having a heart attack and I am reaching for my chest help me as I am reaching for a smoke to get one last puff before I DIE!!! :thumbsup:

God Bless,

KS

You appear to have reading comprehension problems to have made this comment after helpfully linking to tu quoque.
Non-smokers need to admit that they dislike smokers and smoking because they find it to be a smelly and disgusting habit. Many (most?) smokers will agree with them between coughing fits.
The demonization of second-hand smoke is similar to homeopathy insofar as it relates to smoking in well-ventilated spaces which are only momentarily inhabited.

It's arguably inconsiderate to smoke near primary building accesses as it forces everyone using the door to be subjected to the unpleasant odors you're producing. Same with not warning people that you smoke before giving them a ride in your car, or asking if the folks around you mind before you light up.

Smoking is bad for smokers. No one, and certainly not somone who has been smoking for a while, is going to argue about that. Someone else smoking as you walk past them does not endanger your health... unless you make some snide remark and they kick the shit out of you and take your wallet.

hehe. Yeah. that seems like a funny study. But it got me thinking. There are a significant number of chemistry students that smoke here at Berkeley. You'd think they'd know better. I chalk it up to stress, since it's a super stressful course of study.

I am not bothered by someone smoking a cigarette in my presence. As long as we're outdoors, and I'm not planning on kissing them, it really doesn't matter.

The problem with this entire fucking thread is the original question. The OP is giving us two two unrelated statements and asking us to pick and either or, and its slightly offensive.

What I have to say? Yea, live in a city for a year, thats probably worse for your lungs that living in the countryside with a smoker.

if you are outside, and bitching about the smoke hurting you, bullshit, you do NOT smoke half a cig for each one of mine. Theres no way, its too diluted in the MOVING outside air.

So basically? Stuff it.

And sorry dude, you need new friends. I always ask, and many many a friend has asked me not to. Did it hurt our relationship? Fuck no, I just waited until we got somewhere more convenient.