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if you think of yourself as a good person... how can you smoke around others?
this ? has been on my mind lately. there are just so many reasons to not smoke where there are other people around.
From the relatively small ones, like the offensive odors that stick to hair and clothes like glue all day... to the major one's, like the fact that it's now proven that secondhand smoke is harmful to health... I don't deny anyone's personal freedom and liberty, and i have my own vices. but how can you think you're living a good life if you are subjecting others to your vice and they aren't getting any enjoyment from it? |
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I dont know....maybe I'm too busy going out of my way to help, setting my needs on the backburner,and generally being nice to others to seriously consider my smoking a major offense. Still, I dont smoke in my house...and generally try to sit downwind where needed. |
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Regardless, this: Quote:
-bear |
yeah and how can anyone in the airline business consider themselves good as well. I mean there's jet fuel falling on us constantly. Oh and don't get me started on the car industry. I have to breathe those fumes all damn day!!
:rolleyes: If I know a person doesn't like smoke then I don't smoke. Now if they are sitting in a smoking section or we are outside then it's fair game I think. |
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I used to smoke. I got sick a lot. People around me hated it. My gf hated it. I stopped. |
You are, of course...correct. All of the good that I have managed to accomplish on this planet is absolutely negated by the fact that I...*gasp*...smoke.
I suppose that I should just accept the fact that I am a morally bankrupt, vile, reprehensible fiend, that should be kept as far away from children and little puppies as is possible. Perhaps...I should even take to wearing a large scarlet letter "S". Oh...no need..."good" people can smell me coming in time to scurry to the other side of the street. |
Hara Kiri for Bill!
I am the worst kind of smoker. I am an ex-smoker. I find the smell nauseating and so I don't go places where people smoke, and when people smoke in places where it isn't allowed (like the common areas at the baseball stadium, for example) I speak up. If you want to smoke, go ahead, but restrict your use to places that allow it. |
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I suspect the American Lung Association might be, you know, a tad biased, but here's a fact sheet they provided: Quote:
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Any smoke is bad for you, full stop, doesn't matter where its coming from.
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if you think of yourself as a good person... how can you smoke around others?
Faulty premise: I don't think of myself as a good person. I am off the hook, baby! Gilda |
I don't smoke and I don't like being around it. That said, I don't deny anyone from smoking around me if they're considerate about it. If you're going to be sitting very close to me: ask, make sure you not blowing the smoke into my face, and don't leave a mess with the ash and cigarette butts. Most people do this all, so there's rarely an issue about it.
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From personal experience whenever I'm smoking, most people are wanting to smoke with me. Generally the only bad person I have to do is say "Hell no, I paid ten bucks for this bowl. Get your own."
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/me smoked two packs a day for over forty years...quit last summer, june 29 to be exact...i don't care who does what around me...all's i know is i quit...
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Wow... what a can of worms...
Personally, I find that if I know you smoke, my personal opnion of you has dropped. It's addictive, it will kill you... and you're a stupid enough fuck to smoke in the first place. Good job, now go shoot some heroin while you're at it. /end rant Sorry. I really, seriously, tremendously HATE cigarette smoke. I do understand that if I go to a club where people smoke I have to be around it, and I deal with it in my own way. However, when it's raining outside, and I'm going to class, I don't want to have to walk through a cloud of smoke because all the stupid smokers are too stupid to carry umbrellas. I'm glad I'm out of school and don't have to deal with that. I have dreams that one day the entire US will be like California where you are only allowed to smoke in your house and that's if the whole thing is hermetically sealed so no smoke gets out. If you don't like my reaction to your smoke, I'll just go around vomiting in your general direction and see how YOU like it. |
On the scale of things Americans do that are harmful to other people (directly and indirectly) smoking is pretty far down. And lets not even begin on the scale of things that potentially annoy others.
Look into some of the more recent data and reanalyses of old data on the effects of secondhand smoke. Nobody is going to be claiming it's beneficial to anyone's health, but given the crap that in the air most places, the effect is not observable in public situations. Unless you're talking about something like a member of your carpool smoking, or a roomate smoking while you're sitting on the couch watching TV together... your argument is basically "I dislike the smell." The same argument can be made about people who wear perfume or go to the gym & don't shower immediately afterwards or eat beans & cabbage for lunch. And if you're in sitations where you're spending a significant amount of time in proximity to smokers, you probably know them well enough to ask them to modify. |
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i dont understand the question in the op.
i mean, i understand what the words say, but not the logic behind it. it seems to me like one of those false problems. |
I hate smoking and don't hang with smokers either. I don't understand it at all. But I look at it this way. If you want to slowly kill yourself, go for it! Though I do have to say; I do not patronize businesses or areas where people smoke. I have some problems with my lungs and exposure to smoke, of any kind, obviously does not help.
A couple of weeks ago, I went to a casino for my birthday. It was a casino I had been to previously and I had been there during the week. At that time , the place was not very busy. When I went back during the weekend, it was packed, and I discovered that smoking was allowed. I discovered this the hard way, after some smokers sat next to the slot machine I was sitting at. My solution was to move to another slot. However, I will not be going to that casino again since apparently they allow smoking. My point is, to the OP, if you don't want to be around it, don't. Hopefully the smoker will get the hint. However, I don't consider them bad people. Just annoying or inconsiderate at best. |
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Anyone with common sense could realize that lighting someone on fire, and then sticking it into their face and taking a breath is a bad idea.I guess all that coughing is a sign of good health. As far as this thread goes.No one should be forced to experience something like second-hand smoke.If you wanna smoke, go for it, as long as it doesent affect me.When you start interfering with others rights(like you know, the right to better health) then it becomes a problem. Smoking doesent make someone bad, and not smoking doesent make someone good.Not caring where your smoke goes makes you a bit of a jerk, though. |
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Seriously though, I don't consider myself a particularly good person. Sure, I've done pretty good things and try to be a fairly nice person, but on the whole I think I fall somewhere between "okay" and "shady." But I, like a lot of smokers, smoke downwind of the non-smokers or otherwise try to keep it away from them. We're humans too, and don't like to cause discomfort to those around us. Sticking a cylindrical tube in your mouth and lighting it doesn't make you suddenly callous and unfeeling. Or rather, it does it to your lungs, not your compassion. I know cigarette smoke is bad for you, and so try to not wrap its smoky tendrils around the "innocent." Anybody that tells you otherwise is ignorant of current health topics. Hell, I told off a woman this weekend who was complaining vociferously about somebody telling her to try and keep the smoke out of their face because they felt it was bad for them. I've no doubt that in spite of that, she's going to remain an asshole. The rest of us smokers that aren't like that hate those people too, for the record. But for you to pose a divide between being a smoker and being a good person is not only ridiculous, it's offensive. We smoke in public because we're people and public is where people go. Most of us try to keep it away from non-smokers because we're aware that you don't like it. We're not a different breed of unhealthy, callous, angry, unfeeling mutants. Most of us aren't trying to play the social pariah, we just don't want to be labelled as outright "bad people." |
I smoke. I quit twice. I got fat. People died (well, not really, but they could have, given my mood).
Yea, I'm a pariah. Hopelessly addicted. And the healthiest person in my family, which is comprised entirely of people who think I'm disgusting. I love nonsmokers who rant and rave and make ridiculous comparisons. You think we're that stupid, eh? At 15, yea...at 50, we're hooked. Think it's easy to just put'em down forever? I did that-twice. Plan on doing it again. Did you know that nicotine is more addictive than heroin? Did you know it's twice as hard for a woman to quit than a man? Or that it's harder to quit menthols than non? Yea, we're stupid.:rolleyes: States make all kinds of laws-some even tried to outlaw smoking in one's own car! Your 78 Volare can spew all kinds of black smoke down the freeway, but don't smoke in it.... And how many smoke haters marinate in cologne? That's always good for an ironic chuckle....While your 'choking' because I'm smoking, I'm having an allergy attack because of your Chanel. None of us is an angel; none of us only thinks of others as we go about our business. And smokers are not bad people. I strongly suggest that those of you so adamantly against these little sticks of horror get off your high horses... |
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I have heard, however, that wild sex with an ex-green beret completely dissipates all withdrawl symptoms! I quit because I got incredibly ill. And while smoking, I could actually FEEL myself get sicker with each drag. I had been a smoker for about 15 years, two packs a day. The funny thing is, everyone told me the first week would be hardest. For me, it was a breeze. But when I got out to 30 days, I got basically homicidal for about a week. Then it was over, and I've never looked back. My experience was completely at odds with everything I'd ever heard or read about quitting smoking. I haven't had a cigarette in 7 years, nor the desire for one. But I'll tell you, it was damn hard to quit, even though I could feel it making me sick! |
Ironically, every time I quit, I got really ill. The first time, I was smoke free for over 2 years, but I was a sickly basket case. The second time I quit, I'd lost my voice for 3 weeks (made Kathleen Turner sound like Elmo in comparison).
The fears of what will probably transpire(the weight gain, the getting sick) are part of why I can't get past the point I have-down from over 2.5 to 1.5 packs a day. As for that wild sex-either way, during or after, there'd be some smoking going on!!:lol: |
Sweet! Another "Smokers are the antichrist" thread.
For the record, when I'm smoking, it's done outside, away from people and a bit off the beaten path so if someone is going to be offended/exposed to secondhand smoke they are going to have to go out of their way to do so. At work, we smoke in Designated Smoking Areas that are way the hell away from anything else, we clean up after ourselves, and the area is very clearly marked. If someone wants to get pissy about being exposed to smoke, again they are going to have to go out of their way to do so. I do this for a variety of reasons, but two really stand out for me. 1. I do not want to expose others to secondhand smoke if they are not smokers. (we can be considerate....) 2. I want to enjoy my cigarette, sometimes in the company of others who are also enjoying cigarettes, and be left the hell alone. I realize that some smokers create a real mess and go completely apeshit when someone asks them not to smoke around them. To let you in on a little secret, most smokers dislike those people even more than you do. They fuck everything up for everyone else. |
Since when does being a smoker make you a bad person? It astounds me how non-smokers can so easily look down on people who do smoke.
SA has pretty standard smoking laws i.e. no smoking indoors unless in a designated smoking zone, anywhere else that's "open-air" - meaning restuarant decks and the like - are fair game. I'm a smoker who can't stand 2nd hand smoke so I take care not to smoke around other people unless they're actively smoking themselves. As an aside, I'm not your everyday kind of smoker in that I don't "need" it like others do. I've been smoking on and off for about 7 years now and have never needed to quit. A pack lasts me about a week, sometimes more. I consider my smoking to be a choice - not a habit or an addiction. I smoke because I want to and I enjoy it. Not because I'll go off my head if I stop. |
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I'm so sick of people complaining about smoke outside. Do people really think that walking through a cloud of smoke for oh .. 3 seconds is going to do anything harmful?? There are studies (and I can be corrected here as I don't have time to get the linkage) that show a smoker who smokes a pack or two a day can quit and the lungs will regenerate within a year. Ok. So now do you really think that walking through 3 seconds of smoke did anything other than annoy you? No. You just annoyed me equally by smarting off about me smoking <b>OUTSIDE</b>. /end rant. I'm the type of smoker that even if I know someone smokes, I will ask them if it bothers them if I light up. Are all people this polite? Of course not, but like I said before, if it's outside or in a designated area, piss off. /end other rant. |
I quit a month or two ago, but while I smoked I never smoked indoors, even in my own house, me smelling like a ashtray was bad enough I didn't want my place to stink of it too. If my kids were with me I wouldn't even smoke in the car. If I go over to my friends how, and have the little ones with me, I don't let her smoke in her house.
Growing up my old man always smoked in the garage, I guess that just rubbed off on to me. |
I don't like smoke and I don't like it when people smoke around me. That said I have plenty of friends and family who smoke. They are not bad people because of it. I still love them anyway. I do wish they'd stop. Everyone has bad habits...
I think the OP was just ranting - maybe next time they'll think twice about posting without thinking things through at all. I wish smoking on the scale that people smoke nowadays had never happened. Even the people who smoke probably agree, deep down, right? Correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Sorry, bullshit. I'm not interested in tobacco-industry funded "scientific" studies. They're biased by definition. Hell just use common sense. Smoke in general is bad for us, even campfire smoke. That's why our eyes sting and we cough when the wind blows the smoke at us. Now add tar and carcinogens and all sorts of other nasty poisons to the smoke, and you're trying to tell me it's harmless to people breathing it? Like it or not, when you smoke, you're forcing everyone around you to smoke. That's why I'm for the rewriting of drug laws in this country. Cigarrettes, cigars, etc totally illegal outside of private homes, but if you want to do lines of cocaine in Applebees, go for it. You're only hurting yourself there, so I really don't care if you do it. |
It's funny to watch all the smokers get all indignant about this post! Only Gilda seems to have a sense of humour about the whole thing.
I'm an ex-smoker, puffed away for many years, finally quit utilizing a little will power. I don't think smoking around others negates any good thing that person may have done, but it sure is, at the least, impolite, and, at the most, harmful to the health of others. Having said that, I can't recall the last time someone lit up around me without asking first. |
Let's start with the tu quoque fallacy.
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Second, smoking is an extremely stupid thing to do. The reasons are well documented. Look here, for example. Yes, there are a lot of people who began smoking before it was known that smoking had such harmful effects on the human body. But, the surgeon general's warning was added to all cigarette boxes thirty-six years ago! The knowledge has been avaliable to the public for a very long time now. Smokers need to admit that, in addition to killing themselves in one of the very stupidest ways possible, they are harming the health of those around them through the effects of secondhand smoke. Smokers, you are irrational. You are committing a slow suicide. You are failing to respect the well-being of your fellow humans. You've had more than three decades to quit (or to have not started). Your behavior is shameful. |
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YOUR behavior is shameful because you put yourself above others. Trust me, you're not omnipotent. Every time you start up your car, every time you splash on cologne, every time you spray bug spray or barbeque a steak, you're just as human as everyone else here and just as callous. Maybe more so, since, as the pariah's, we do tend to ask first before lighting up if someone else is around. Way back in the stone age, it was common for smokers to smoke ANYWHERE-grocery stores, malls, airports...while not denying the second-hand smoke theory, it would seem to me that there'd be an awful lot more people my age and older dying as a result of these old scenarios. We know it's a nasty habit, that's been established. What's nastier is this holier than thou attitude that is so pervasive. There but for the grace of God go you. I find it very hard to believe that you or anyone else here feeling so free to insult can be that perfect. |
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I think any person that speeds with me in the car (and I mean even 1 mph over the limit) cant call themselves a good person either
people who dont obey traffic laws are worse people too, bet there are a lot of nonsmokers that do that |
Guess I'll add smoking to the things TFP can't talk about without turing the thread into an abortion.
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The report, written by the WHO, says there is no link between child hood exposure to and only a slightly higher chance, 25% more likely for adults who work with a smoke or have a spouse as a smoker, however, they way the calculate it is a total farce, 1:80,000 of people exposed to second hand smoke die from lung cancer, where as 1:100,000 who are not exposed to it die from lung cancer. This is just slightly higher then statistically insignificant. I hate smoke, it smells horrible, and however, there is no scientific evidence to show a conclusive link between second hand smoking and cancer. |
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Actually, there are enough people here and elsewhere that think highly enough of me to overlook my shortcomings. It's your loss up there on the pedestal, certainly not mine. You don't have to be perfect, but you're sure making yourself out to be, a fallacy, to be sure. So tell us, what makes you so omnipotent? What makes YOU the good person, the 'better' person? Obviously, it's not anything like compassion, tolerance, humility...so what IS it? |
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You are a worse person because you [insert thing you don't like here]. Period. That's pretty cool. What can I insert into there and not live and let live, imposing my morality and code among others. Homosexuality Multiple Sex Partners Anal Sex Oral Sex Bad Thoughts Vegatarians Meat Eaters Sugar Eaters Wheat Eaters Hunters Fishers wow politicophile, this is cool. Thanks for that sentence. It's going to come in handy one day. :rolleyes: |
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i find people who talk on their cellphones while driving to be a much greater danger to others than are those who smoke.
but curiously, you never seem to find even threads here that pose questions about talking on cellphones while driving are "good people" and whether they imagine that they contravene their own sense of "goodness" by doing what they do. maybe the question in the op is so wrongheaded that responding to it doesn't get anyone anywhere. |
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It was your generalization, not mine. |
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I don't like smoking. I smoked all through high school and quit upon graduation; I didn't want to take the habit to college with me. I can't stand the smell of cigarette smoke; it makes me want to vomit. That said, I don't really care to be around cigarette smoke. Sometimes I am, simply because I have friends who smoke, but generally I avoid it, and choose to live in a town where smoking is not allowed in bars and restaurants.
People aren't bad if they're smokers. They're bad if they're obnoxious about it, and don't take other people into consideration. As for the issue of ETS around children, one of the biggest illnesses we haven't mentioned is asthma. ETS causes asthma in children who have not previously exhibited symptoms (http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html) and it makes it worse for children who already have asthma. Having worked with children with asthma, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. There are so many illnesses that children are at increased risk for if exposed to ETS...so don't do it. |
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To arbitrarily put yourself on a higher plane simply because YOU don't do something is absurd, egotistical and beyond pompous. And extremely unimpressive. |
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Most of the responses i got in this thread have a tone... it ranges from indignant to mocking. the vibe i pick up, as much as you can from text anyway, are sentiments like, "how dare you tell me what to do?!" or "stfu, its not that big a deal!" A lot of others just twisted the context or semantics of my question. My purpose in creating this thread is not to admonish however, it's more of an introspective question. i just honestly want to know how smokers internally justify their habits when the facts are out there and they have to know that they are having an extremely negative impact on everyone their around or living with. On a minor level.... would you fart in a crowded elevator or car, and not pinch it off, because releasing the gas would feel good, even though a lot of people in the elevator would be trying to get over the experience all day? On a major level.... if you had an extremely bad and possibly dangerous version of the flu or whooping cough would you work with food in a cafeteria? These are similar situations, although there is a degree of seperation between them and smoking obviously. Also, a few people posed the point to me that they always ask before they light up... I'm here to tell you as a non smoker, thats usually a no win for me. If i know the person asking and am to have any further relations with them, and ESPECIALLY if they are a friend of mine... there's no way i can say, "yeah i mind" or "can you wait till we get back to the house" to them. If i do then I'm the bad person all of a sudden because smokers as a rule have the same sanctimonious/defensive attitude displayed in this thread. Any objection on my part will negatively impact our friendship/relationship. Because I think THEY are a good person, i hold my tongue. i let them get away with stinking me up and harming my health. The most i do is try to nudge them or help them if they express a desire or timetable to quit. So all in all, like a point i made at the end of my OP that was largely ignored, I'm for your rights and liberties. i don't want to take away your freedom to smoke. I just wanted to know if you ever felt bad or guilty about what your subjecting us "innocents" to. For the record, to me and a large part of society, it's a very big deal. and imo, it's a pain in the ass to find a place completely devoid of people to do what your doing to yourself, or to wait until such a place is available to you, but in the end it would be worth it to the greater good and to your psyche. |
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The fact that people want to say that smoking is wrong and makes someone a worse person is ridiculous. I say you're dumb for eating well done steak, I say you're stupid for putting a loud exhaust on your car. It doesn't make me think you're not a good person though. Yada Yada, I understand the whole point of subjecting others to our harmful smoke. Like I said, I'm tired of breathing in your car fumes. Shut your fucking car off. I'm committing a slow-suicide? Who isn't?? Seriously. Everyone dies. You ever drink? Guess what you just helped kill yourself a little bit. Deal with it. The whole point here is that while most smokers understand that alot of people don't want to be exposed; we will (for the most part) be polite about our actions. This psuedo witch hunt however, puts those who are a part of it on the same level as us asshole bad people with cigs in our mouths. |
I know of several people who have died from lung cancer but never picked up a smoke in their life. They did live with smokers for extended periods of time. In my mind, based on evidence that I can see myself, second hand smoke is very dangrous in addition to being tremendously inconsiderate. Back when I did smoke, I did everything I could not to inconvenience people with my smoke. I always smoked outside, I always smoked away from entrances and exits to buildings, and I avoided smoking in public places like beaches or parks. I occasionally smoked in my car, but I had an effective air spray that neutralized the smell for future passangers. I didn't smoke around anyone except other people who were smoking.
Any smoker who disregards the safety and comfort of people around them is an asshole. Just ask Dennis Leary. Smoking where it is not legal or welcomed is asking for trouble. |
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I do not like the smell of smoke, I do not like its impact on my health. I think smoking is a horrible habit/addiction. That said, there are very few individual acts that I think can make a person a "bad person". Smoking is certainly not one of them. If a person were to blow smoke directly in my face as soon as they found out that I hate cigerette smoke, then I might be tempted to call them a bad person. Smoking around others, at most, could be called a selfish act. I even feel a recoil from making that call, maybe I'm too interested in judging my own behavior to take time to judge someone elses.
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again, i want to dispense with the semantics of "bad person". its too much an utlitmatum i suppose. I'd really love a response to my post #48, even though it's a bit of a read :D
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i sometimes wish there was a way to drive a stake into the heart of a thread.
this is one of them. i cannot imagine anyone caring about the sanctimonious lather folk who are offended at one level of another by the idea of smoking can work themselves into. it does not function to persuade anyone who sokes to reconsider their actions; it says nothing about the issues that may be involved with second-hand smoke; it says nothing about anything, frankly--but it does allow folk who choose for whatever curious reason to route their dislike of cigarette smoke through the tedious language of morality to vent. perhaps it would be better to pose such questions as a kind of kvetch thread for people who hate cigarette smoke. there is obviously no serious intention of engendering a dialogue. the frame of the op--despite the lame protestations concerning "respect for rights"--doesnt allow for it. |
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as an example, i have a friend who is constantly smoking in his car, including when we're going anywhere together and i'm in there with him. I can tell its part of his daily m.o. to always have a cigarette going when he's driving anywhere. I can also tell that if i objected to him doing it, that he'd be uncomfortable and obsess about it the whole time we were on the road together. It's to the point that I make a strong bid to be the one driving when we go somewhere, but he insists on driving so he can smoke. i know he'd abstain if i asked for my sake because he's a considerate guy, but then i would be a seed for some serious psychological distress on his part because of his addiction and routine. and even though i don't think it's unreasonable to request him waiting till we're not driving, i can see on some level him thinking that im infringing on his rights in his car, or on an instinctual animal level that im causing him pain in the course of his day. i personally make a decision to hold back my objections because i don't want the psychological static it would cause on his end... i decide that i'm more capable of letting it go and living with it. and roachboy, i again apologize for my op being too slippery to have a dialogue upon it. i respectfully withdraw my "good person" analogy. And i would love a thread along these same lines about people driving and talking on their cell phones at the same time... i don't understand that either. I do notice however, you've peppered 4 responses among this thread about it being so much drivel.... if thats the case, why do you torture yourself by continually coming back? |
ng, you ARE a bad person for liking Nascar.
I think the heart of the question that this thread asks has nothing to do with smoking, but rather the human mind. We consider ourselves many things and grant ourselves absolution from our actions that counter this self-image. Even if one is a smoker and takes all necessary precautions to protect others in order to fulfill their will to be a good person, I'm willing to bet there is going to be another guilty pleasure that shoots their self-image to hell. They'll write it off, though, because they're good everywhere else. |
thank you hal! you da man, man!
i really do want to know what, if anything, crosses someone's mind when they are lighting up. are they guilty? do they feel like they're getting away with something? are they conscious of their effect on the people around them or is all that swept under the rug? is the only thing on their mind at that point the satisfaction they are getting from their cigarette? thats the dialogue im hoping for.... with a nice fork in the road that has come up about it being difficult to object to people's smoking if you have any kind of relationship w/ them and smokers feelings on THAT. has a friend or coworker objected to you smoking round them? have you ever been upset about it or let it affect your relationship with them? are you less inclined to spend time or energy on or with them because you know their might be a roadblock to your smoking habits? |
Before I go to someones house I educate myself on their house rules. I also educate others on MY house rules. I pay the mortgage therefore I am.
Designated smoking areas are as follows: outside if the weather is nice otherwise you may use the basement and the basement only. Pot is strictly prohibited due to my severe allergy to the odor. Agree with me or not my friends and relatives adhere to the house rules. If I find that they begin to partake of something at their house that I do not approve of, I am free to leave. No one forces me to be somewhere I do not wish to be. |
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Seeing balls of mucus on sidewalks grosses me out; it's disgusting as is hearing and seeing them being coughed there. It's inconsiderate, but I have no idea if that person is a bad person, just rude. Seeing hanging bellies of flesh in sweatpants is disgusting. Are they bad people? I don't grant absolution for my habits, but they are MY habits and I do my best not to infringe them on others. But the self-righteous attitudes of some comes with the thought that they have every right to infringe those attitudes on others. Making generalized assumptions about a person's heart and mind because they smoke or weigh half a ton or snap their gum, whatever, is sanctimonious bullshit. And if they don't want to get to know the person, not the action, I say, their loss. |
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i don't want to deal with absolutes here and i wish that everyone would get away from my admittedly mistaken "bad person" terminology and more into their own mindset. I've tried to illustrate this with examples from my life and friends i'm around that do smoke. I don't sit in judgement on smokers and i don't shut down my chances of getting to know them, especially if i continually see the good in them. your spitting on the sidewalk analogy only works so far, ngdawg, and thats as far as the fact that smoking can be partially to blame for someone else having an uncomfortable or off day from being around a smoker. seeing spit on the sidewalk or someone doing it does not, however, have a harmful effect on their health or a decent chance to cause them illness or death. Most bad habits fall into the spitting category, not the smoking one. So that's why i want to know how aware smokers are of what they are doing every day and how they feel about it. Your answer has no bearing on what kind of person you are and whether i'd like to share a beer with you and have a chat sometime. |
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If I had to choose between somebody blowing cigarette smoke in my face or somebody blowing high-handed self-righteous morality in my face, I'd take the smoke.
Intolerence is a greater immorality than smoking. It's not even on the same scale. |
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No, but seriously. You're preventing your friend from experiencing the consequenses of his actions. He might surprise you. Or he might be asked to refrain from smoking by someone else very important down the road, and he's never had to do it 'cause you've created an artifical protective environment...yeah, it's a little rediculous, and I'm using hyperbole to emphasize the point. If you're not going to be honest (uh oh, bad person alert) and tell him you don't want him to when he asks, at least tell him why you don't feel that you could ask him to refrain. Quote:
And I'd have to agree with roachboy that just because your provocactive and poorly-worded OP flushed some "zealots" out of the bushes does not in any way justify...a provocactive and poorly-worded OP. Not trying to jump your case or anything, but I don't see value or merit in singling out roachboy. |
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As far as weight gain is concerned, vigorous sex burns 1.4 calories per minute! I'm glad I didn't encounter the illness, but I've had to battle my weight like I never did before. I've heard of people who experienced these symptons, though. Check in with your doc, they can probably give you something to alleviate that. |
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I don't think that smoking around other adults is in any way related to being or not being a good person. Foolish, sure, but we all have foolish things we do from time to time.
Where and when you do it may be an indication of how polite you are in regards to this behavior. I don't smoke, and I don't permit smoking in my home or my car. At work, we have a no smoking inside buildings or within a certain distance of entryways, so it never comes up. When someone asks me if I mind if they smoke, my answeris always "Yes." The last time this happened, the man in question lit up anyway and then tried to claim I'd given him permissiion. When I'm at an outdoor gathering or another's home I try to avoid smoking areas, but it isn't my place to set policy someplace where I'm not the one in charge. If I don't like the policy, I'm free to go elsewhere. I mostly get to avoid places people smoke, so it isn't an issue most of the time. I'd call smoking around others who dislike it generally impolite, though this can be mitigated for the most part by asking others if they mind, though this should be more than a fomality and be accompanied by a willingness to actually refrain if that's the response, unlike the guy who asked me then lit up anyway. Whether you're a good person involves something much more than smoking etiquette. Gilda |
When I go out in public and there are people smoking, it directly lowers my quality of life. Its no different than extra loud music, or not bathing for a long period of time.
The problem with smoking isn't that it will kill you, that I don't care about, or that it will kill me, I'm not worried about second hand smoke, its that its an obnoxious habbit that you can not escape without leaving the area. If you have ugly hair or are looking at porn, drinking alcohol, or whatever, it doesn't effect what I am doing, but smoking can't be avoided unless you bring your own air supply. |
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I agree with Ustwo. I'm going to go shower then read a liberal book like Exception to the Rulers or Confessions of an Economic Hitman. |
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Sir Lance: Uh, yea...I know:suave: High-jinx: I would think that, if the person IS your friend, they'd be more than accommodating and if not, then cross them off the Christmas card list. Friends simply don't act rudely in that respect-although farting between good buds is usually quite acceptable.:D |
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Just to keep this on topic, very few of them smoke. |
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And, to keep keeping this on-topic: my neck-stump would be smoking. |
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You can't toss out an opening like that and expect people to not care that you just called us all immoral and inferior. I'm not in this argument, i'm just giving you answers to your "why am I being attacked" questions. Offering a reasoned explanation (jesus, where have I written this before) is not attacking you, nor is it siding with those you do perceive as attacking you. It's just explaining why what you said has caused what others are saying. While I don't agree with the way some have articulated their points, i'm not "with" either side. |
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Holy shit, this subject really gets peoples' panties in a bunch.
Chill the fuck out everyone; you're all acting like a bunch of babies. |
after graduating college, i am now back at home. both of my parents are smokers, probably 1 pack a day for each of them, and they both smoke in the house. they can not or refuse to understand why it bothers me so much. it's like living in an ash-tray.
i guess i could make the excuse for them that they were just brought up in a different time, when smoking away into your toddler's face was socially acceptable and normal. i realized i'm biased. i hate ciggarettes. i've never tried one. i would probably feel physically ill if i tried. a student film director wanted to fire me when i refused. (hooray for student films...). I hate the agenda that movies have in making cigarrettes look cool. because they don't! when i jump out of my bias I realize that smokers are not bad people, jsut that a lot of them are incredibly inconsiderate (like most of the human race). when I jump back in, I wish they'd die so as to remove themselves from the gene pool. I've opted out of dating women because they were smokers. |
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This thread shows a classic bait and response that I see constantly (and am occasionally victim to). The reasoning is quite simple - smokers are pariahs. That's not just a word we bat around for fun. I can't claim to know what it's like the world over, but I know that I am already greatly inconvenienced by my habit. Here in my part of the world, we can't smoke in bars or restaurants, nor can we smoke in any workplaces. We are entitled to smoke outside or in our cars, as well as in our own homes. Despite all of this, most of the smokers I know are considerate enough to take reasonable steps in keeping their smoke out of the way of non-smokers, myself included.
Note the operative word there, though. We will take reasonable steps. Smoking outdoors and at a respectful distance from public entrances or exits is a reasonable step. If I stay ten feet away from the doors of public buildings and smoke outside, there's no need for you to be subjected to my cigarette smoke. If I smoke in my home or car, there's no reason for you to be subjected to my smoke. Granted, I will refrain from smoking in my home or car if it's likely to bother you, but not everyone will do that and I can see the reasoning behind that attitude. If you don't like it, don't ride with that person or visit them. You're entitled to your opinion of my habits. You may think smoking is a sign of the anti-christ and you're allowed to. Hell, think worse of me for it if you want to. I won't be losing any sleep. However, I am taking my reasonable precautions not to subject you to my tobacco smoke. If you subject yourself to it and then get on my case about it, don't be surprised if I react negatively. In a more direct answer to the op, I don't think about that sort of thing every time a light a cigarette. I have my reasons for smoking. I don't expect everyone to agree with them and I will respect people's right to their own opinion, but thinking of smoking as making me a bad person? No. I have other things to keep me up at night. |
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You'll do the same. Besides, I'll always have the hots for you whether you smoke or not! Ah well, our love shall ever be unrequited, but at least we can enjoy it! |
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Okay, wow. This thread has been through a lot.
My contribution is merely this: smoking (unlike race, sex, homosexuality, and other strawmen that have been raised) is for the most part a deliberate lifestyle choice. Choices (the result of the ways in which we use our free will) are the basis upon which we make judgments about people. Therefore, as an individual choice, smoking is at the very least a legitimate subject for debate. The question of whether or not this particular practice is moral should not be dismissed out of hand, though we may have differing answers to that question. |
firstly, smoking where other smokers smoke does not make me a bad person. secondly, if you are with people who smoking...move if you dont like it.
thirdly, what happens when you go out to a club or whatever, people smoke there all the time unless its a policy that everyone should smoke outside...what the hec then, why not move the "club" outside too. leave you all by your lonesome in a dark, no music filled club to enjoy yourself...ALONE. |
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Public buildings funded by taxpayer money, that's a bit different. My inclination is to say this: let the taxpayers decide. Put it to a vote. And while I'm the odd case of a non-smoker who enjoys secondhand smoke, I'd probably vote for smoking sections or no smoking at all in such places. Oftentimes, people in public buildings are there by necessity or near-necessity. It's a matter of courtesy. |
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The problem is that workers fall under OSHA rules and cigarette smoking falls under that apparently. |
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I realize this is being used as an EXCUSE for many of the smoking ban laws, no one really cares that much about their waiter, but I would have welcomed it at the time I was waiting tables. |
I have never in my life, held someone down or locked them in a closed room in which I'm smoking.
Given the fact that I respect most societal conventions, I consider my self "considerate" when I do smoke. Which, thankfully, is a rare occasion these days. However, when I smoked regularly and when i do now it's always: Where smoking is allowed. Usually outside. In a place where no one is chained up and forced to breathe in my second-hand. Occasionally, I'm with someone who has made the choice to remain physically near me while I'm smoking even though they themselves do not smoke. In this case, I respect thier choice and allow them to remain with me, even though they've chosen to be in the same area as my smoke. In return, I try to keep the smoke away from them as much as reasonably possible. Thus, as I have never forced anyone to inhale my secondhand somke, nor have I ever lit up in an area where it's not allowed, I think I can rest easy with my consideration of how "good" I am. Also, desptie the apparent wishes of a large portion of American society, your morals or lack thereof (as may be the case) isn't my problem. |
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arsenic, nickel, chromium, cadmium, lead, polonium-210, vinyl chloride, formaldehyde, benz(a)anthracene, benzo[b]fouoranthene, benzo[j]fluoranthene, benzo[k]fluoranthene, benzo[a]pyrene, chrysene, dibenz[a,h]anthracene, dibenzo[a,I]pyrene, dibenzo[a,l]pyrene, indeno [1,2,3-c,d]pyrene, 5-methylchrysene, quinoline, dibenz[a,h]acridine, dibenz[a,j]acridine, 7H-dibenzo[c,g]carbazole, N-nitrosodimethylamine, N-nitrosoethylmethylamine, N-nitrosodiethylamine, N-snitrosopyrrolidine, N-nitrosodimethylamine, N’-nitrosonornicotine, 4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanone, N’-nitrosoanabasine, N-nitrosomorpholine, 2-toluidine, 2-naphthylamine, 4-aminobiphenyl, acetaldehyde, crotonaldehyde, benzene, acrylonitrile, 1,1-dimethylhydrazine, 2-nitropropane, ethylcarbamate, hydrazine
If you engage in an activity that includes breathing this in, you might want to keep it to yourself. |
Automotive fumes are really bad for your health too. No study biased or not has ever even tried to refute that. CO will kill you whether its your car or not. Does that mean that anyone who drives around pedestrians is also a bad person?
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nothing to say
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Do you see the difference? |
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The tobacco industry should do the same. There's gotta be a way to get all that shit into your system without any exhaust fumes. |
Geesh..after reading all this I think I'm going to quit smoking. Crap, I just said I'm a smoker...I'm a horrible person now in the eyes of some. Yes, I'm stupid, I'm weak and dammit I smoke cigarettes. Wait..no I have a Master's degree, I am pretty tough, and I have an addiction. Don't judge me. ;)
Seriously, I know that I'm slowly killing myself. I've thought about this and came to the conclusion that everything is going to kill me. You know, the spinach I had for dinner last week might kill me. I don't want to kill anyone else. When I wake up in the morning, I don't think 'Hey, I'm going to smoke at the bus stop and try to kill 3 people this week with my second hand smoke.' I don't smoke at the bus stop...in fact I try to avoid smoking around people all together. My mom got lung cancer...never smoked in her life. My dad smoked 2 packs a day...no cancer. Moral of the story..well pick one a) Second hand smoke is more dangerous b) Cancer is going to get you no matter what I agree that anyone can be made out to be a horrible person through a vice or choice. Smoking is bad and I'll quit...but I think I'll have one more right now. All this talk of cigarettes has given me a craving. And then I promise I'm done...until tomorrow anyway. |
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What really gets my blood boiling is when people dump their car ashtrays onto the pavement....come on, slobs...do it at home. |
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