Xera

We will never have our freedoms taken from us. We will hand them over one at a time until they do not exist. If one person excuses the police for detaining a person for NOT commiting an act, especially if their is reason to believe the police KNEW there was no violation of law, we are giving up our freedoms.

The government cannot take a single freedom from us that we do not hand them on a silver platter, perhaps with a nice parsley garnish.

If the couple warned the cops that they were being taped, shouldn't the warning be on the tape? What I wouldn't give to see that tape, but that is the nosey in me

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dksuddeth

arrested for carrying a weapon....a camera

said it before, i'll say it again. the police are not your friends.
it will only be a matter of time before a majority of americans consider police the enemy and then the war will begin.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

ScottKuma

The problem is that we will have no weapons with which to fight...

On top of that, I truly fear that we Americans have lost our will to stand up and fight for our rights...and the government senses it, and isn't afraid to seize the opportunity.

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Plan9

We gave up the essential part of our right to bear arms a long time ago.

...

Lengthy but really good link that details the heart of the problem.

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analog

Not for nothing, but this may be- to date- the craziest, most paranoid thing I've ever read from you. There are times when I can't tell if you truly believe that, or if it's a front to substantiate your love and stockpile of guns. Really though, I believe that you think it's real. I think you're well equipped for a civil uprising in America, but I don't think you're equipped, at all, to figure out that such a thing almost definitely won't happen any time in the near future- as in, not in your lifetime, or mine, or the lifetime of anyone already alive.

Barring nuclear war with another country, I don't see how you can even think such a thing would happen, let alone be sure of it.

There are assholes who abuse power in every line of work on the entire planet- doctors, lawyers, hot dog vendors, police, you name it. Just because you hate and fear a particular group of people based solely on the mischief of their worst offenders, doesn't mean they're all out to get you. It definitely doesn't mean there will be a civil uprising against the entire police force in the United States.

I definitely agree with you there.

dksuddeth

you watch, if police forces across the country continue to act in the manner that they have been, there will be a retaliation. People are getting very disgusted with not only the actions of MANY police officers, but also the way that departments and dept heads circle the wagons protecting the offenders, the cities themselves doing all they can to cover it up, and in the rare cases there is actually something brought before a judge, it's dismissed or the offender is exonerated in some way. people are getting fed up with it and it is only a matter of time, just like it was pre-revolution, that the people will realize that they are the only ones with a vested interest in a 'free state'. Think me crazy all you like, I hear the words of an awful lot of groups and people.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Shauk

I saw enough anti speech bullshit from police in riot gear when I was down in portland to last me a lifetime. I've been treated with disrespect from numerous police officers over the most inane things.

I'd honestly consider leaving the states once I get to a point of financial comfort. The strength of the U.S. dollar is a joke, the police are hive minded confomist assholes (yes thats a generalization, no, fuck it, it's a fact, I can't think of one cop that hasn't been an asshole in one way or another)

A cop pulling me over once and saying stuff like "give me one good reason to not write you a ticket" for going 5 over. then goes on his charade about how he "loves being the one with allt he power, it's why I became a cop"

having 5 cops surround me at 11pm on foot when I was sitting on the hood of my car, drinking out of my own water bottle, because some jackoff neighbor of ours thought that I was breaking in to my own house when I went back up to the side of the house to use the water hose.

being interrogated by a bunch of sarcastic jocks in uniform for half an hour wasn't my idea of "police at it's finest" and for fucks sake, get the maglite out of my face.

I don't mind if they go after... novel concept.... REAL criminals. But I think the ones being dumbasses about video taping, about me getting a bottle of water from my own house, spooging thier pants over having so much power over me because they wear a badge even though underneath that clothing, they're still just an inferiority complex wielding asshole, I think those kind of cops need to grow up and get the fuck out of the service.

ziadel

reason number three million seven hundered and sixty three thousand and nine to carry a firearm: To protect yourself from treasonous public servants.

I'm 10x more afraid of a cop than I am of any other type of criminal.


This is a big misconeption that deserves some attention. Once upon a time long ago, there was this little gadget called the Liberator Pistol. It was a single shot .45 pistol that took longer to reload than it took to manufacture. They were dropped in China as well as other places where the local resitance would use them to slay just one opressor. After that was done, the person had a whole load of gear to continue fighting with.

A gun, with one bullet can make all the difference in the world.

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

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ScottKuma

I like the sentiment, but a populace/resistance armed with inferior weaponry will have a HELL of a time against a modern army or police force, especially where the opposing force has little qualm against "civilian" losses.

(BTW, I think this is the reason the United States is losing the "war" in Iraq. We're hobbled by media & propagandists carting out any civilian losses that can be attributed to our troops - we're supposed to be fighting a "sanitized" war against an enemy who has no such impedances... but that's probably another thread.)

Now, I realize it's not practical to give tanks, nukes, etc. to the populace, so as a Constitutionist, my question is: Given the fact that it was supposed to protect the populace against internal and external tyranny, has the second amendment become obsolete?

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dksuddeth

somewhat off topic, but i'll answer. though we, as the populace, may not currently be as well armed as most police or even military, there are two practical things to take in to account. Those police and military do not want to die also, and some or most may not be able to stomach firing at american citizens. The second thing to take in to account is the horrible PR and reaction that would take place if things like kent state, or bigger, were to happen again.


The gun control/anti-gunners/statists want you to think that. For nearly 100 years, they have made great steps in to making you think that the government and its forces are subservient yet authoritative and at the same time have whittled away the peoples ability to retain power. By making you believe that the government can always be trusted, because your elected representatives are also 'the people', and that there is no way the government could ever become a dictatorship (since you can still 'vote'), while at the same time flipping the coin and saying that the government needs to tell you what can and can't be done because 'people' are too irresponsible and untrustworthy to keep all of their 'rights' anymore.

a vicious circle that will eventually have drastic consequences.

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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

loquitur

This is what happens when little people get a little power. It's not illegal to take pictures or videos of cops in public, and I have to believe that the cops know it, but they get used to some of the little perks of their job, including the power to boss people around, and they don't like it when someone gets in their way. So they use their position to harass people. Maybe most cops won't act this way, but a fair number do. I once gave a cop some lip while walking on my way to a meeting, and he followed me all the way to the meeting, into the building and up the elevator, trying to goad me into taking a punch at him (as if I give a shit what names he calls me). Finally, right before I got out of the elevator, I said "Listen, asshole. You can call me what you want, you think you're a big shot because you have a badge and a gun. But just remember, there's a closed circuit camera in here, and if you do anything to me it's recorded. So just keep spewing your shit if it makes you feel better, but try anything smart and I'll sue your ass and ruin your career. And your union rep won't be able to help you."

And with that I turned my back on him and walked out.

So that's the reason I think it's a bad idea to give people power. Many people can't handle it well, and that goes for bureaucrats, city officials, cops, health inspectors - anyone who works for the government or for a monopoly (like the local cable company, for instance). Many of these positions are necessary, and I'm not advocating getting rid of them, but we have to recognize that between power hunger and the opportunities for corruption, the best thing we can do is minimize the opportunities. People should as much as possible have the ability to go elsewhere for the services they want - that minimizes abuse and corruption. And it makes people much more polite.

Sion

it's a small point, but being taken into custody by the police IS what being arrested means. whether charges are filed later, is irrelevant. if you are taken into custody by the police, you have been arrested.

secondly, while it's true that the police can detain someone for up to 24 hours without filing charges, it is NOT true that they can do so for "whatever they wish". They must have legal reason to do so. Granted, it doesn't take much to satisfy this last requirement (i.e. suspicion based on even the smallest bit of circumstantial evidence) but they must have a legal reason to detain you.

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