Seaver

Well I didn't feel like hijacking the "I hate thieves" thread, so here is my own.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a thief myself. I have had many friends who either have theif friends themselves or family members. This thread is to inform others who would otherwise never have experience with such things except in being a victim of one of these *many* tactics.

Car Theft:
There are many, many methods to either break into a car or simply steal it. These tactics depend on the amount of time the theif has, the preventative systems the car has, and the tools the thief has available.

Most cars can be jacked with nothing more than a screwdriver. A simple flathead screwdriver to the ignition system (and a strong wrist) will be enough for most vehicles. Unless your keys have the system which sends the wireless signal during the ignition don't fool yourself, a screwdriver is plenty. Many times they have screw punchers which strip off the lock joints inside the ignition, which simply makes their job easier.

Hotwiring is fairly easy, but gets harder with newer cars. Not because they have better security or computers which can sense it, but because there are simply more wires due to more electrical devices in the dashboard. There are four wires on most ignitions. Sort of like in the movies you rub two together to start the starter of the car, then they switch to a third which stops the starter and keeps the engine running. Inexperienced jackers run the rist of hooking up two components which don't belong, and can do anything between honking the horn (alerting others) or even hooking up high voltage wire to a low voltage electrical component which can burn a breaker switch (or give the guy a nasty shock). If you have the wireless signal on the new-expensive car hotwiring is useless.

By breaking the window, a decent car jacker can disconnect an alarm within 5seconds. All they have to do is pop open the hood and pull out the wire from the horn (which are always very visible, and usually bright red which makes it easier).

*Taken from the previous thread* One favorite trick is to wait for a thunderstorm, they will scratch off paint on a section of the car to allow a closed circut. They pop open the hood after a lightning crash (many car alarms go off by those so people ignore) and connect the battery with the car (ground). This blows the breakers and thus the power to the alarm. They can then steal whatever, or replace the breakers after disconnecting the alarm and/or hotwiring.

*Again from the prior thread* There are other methods of fooling car alarms that are much more simple but take a lot more patience. Simply hit (but dont dent) the targetted car every day, preferably multiple times during the day, for just over a week. Watch the reaction of the car owner, most will be suspicious the first couple times. When he becomes fed up with it he won't even look out the window or even simply turn the alarm off. Then you just jack the car at your leasure.

Another trick is with simple divices people make with radioshack quality technology. Any form of clicker on a keychain (locking, activating car alarm, etc) are easy. They just have a divice which listens to the frequency, and just sit in any parking lot. They can then play with the car on that frequency with another divice which are programmed with the common car sets. Dont ask me exactly how, as I quite honestly dont know. All I know is they simply need time and you to use your remote for the frequency. Thats why I always lock with the door locks.

Most thieves are small timers, they dont want to deal with the transport involved with hiding from the cops. Nor do they have the connections to a stripping joint, as driving around in said stolen car for any period of time is borderline retarded. Thus most breakins are simply for a stereo, rims, or nice speaker system. Any of these take 1-2min absolute maximum, with 5-15sec of alarm depending on the guy's skill level.

The cd players with the face you can take off don't prevent theft anymore. They realized that most companies have standardized attachments for the face, so they can spend $20 for a new face.

Store Theft

I will differenciate between expensive theft and petty theft. Many people know exactly what stores will press charges on people, and what level their cutoff of expense is. Most stores won't do anything for less than $50 taken, for these people usually work alone or just with one person to watch backs. I won't bother with these, as any retard can pull it off.

For the bigger stores (Gucchi, etc) it will take 4 people minimum. Hollywood tries to cover it in some movies but there is no way they'd ever pull it off in real life.

Person 1 is a female, preferably in white and gold (something flashy and eye-catching). The prettier she is the better, she should be able to grab the attention of at least 2 attendants by asking for help. Often she will even bring in a small-cute dog, as the expensive stores welcome these generally. The dog will grab attention of female employees and other customers, if possible train the dog in tricks and how to be an all around attention whore. Male employees will be drawn to the lady because of her looks.

Person 2 is a male, white or Asian and dressed nicely but not dark colors. This man should walk with confidence, yet doesn't need help. He's the eyes, gives the others the ques when to do their thing.

Person 3 is a male, preferably black or mexican. He is the second diversion, he wears unseasonably warm cloths. A long coat is preferable, he will distract any remaining people and/or security guards by being touchy with the items, but never steals anything. He constantly makes paranoid looks at anyone watching him, basically looking like he's up to something, but never does anything.

Person 4-5 can be either female or male, but are preferable to be white or Asian. They are the hands, by taking ques from person 2 they make their take. By applying the positive end of a strong magnet they can diffuse most sensors. Others can be easily taken care of in a dressing room by a pair of wire cutters under a coat.

To break it up, without running the risk of falsely crying wolf, simply start up a conversation with Person 2. The others wont be able to effectively take ques without overly giving themselves away. I've broken this up working in a store, even my manager was blown away by it. He stated that since that day they had a 30% reduction in inventory theft.

Most people who work at the high end places believe themselves to be too smart for the position. Therefore they do not see the setup coming, they're too smart to be fooled by something like that.

Home Invasion

By far the easiest, all it takes is patience or daring.

If one is patient just sit in a car (or take a walk) and take note of anyone who seems to be packing, or who clearly dont have kids (mid-20s adults going to work or elderly). If it's a house nice enough to make you believe it has an alarm system just go around back and hit the large electrical breaker. Almost none of the systems have battery backups, so you run the risk but not much of one. Dont sneak around when you're loading up the items into your pickup/van, if anyone approaches just state you're their nephew/cousin/friend/etc. Makes it easier if you make a friendly approach to anyone looking at you weird. I've even heard of people making a fake metallic repo-man sign on their van.

Daring is just that, they wait for them to leave to dinner and go straight for where you expect the jewelery to be. You'd be amazed how few people lock their doors, or have a window within arms reach of the doornob. With a small pillow they can break the window fairly silently. If you have a back door with a large window near the doornob, get rid of it.


There are many other things I can get into. I'm mostly leaving this up to others to lead the conversation. If people dont feel comfterble with this it can be deleted. This isn't intended as a how-to guide (as most thieves already know this), but instead as an insight for people who would otherwise only find out after the fact.

stevie667

Most excellent thread!

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Infinite_Loser

Awesome!

I'm not going to break into someone's house or anything, but informative nevertheless.

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Jinn

Just to shed some light on this -- not only is it easy, it's FUCKIN easy. You don't even need to do any wiring or trolling for frequencies at all. You need a $100 laptop with a wifi card. Car companies claim that your car is safe because the "data is encrypted" as it comes from your dongle. That's entirely correct, if the thief is trying to read the data that you've transmitted for legible information. If all they need to do is capture the bitstream (encrypted or not) transmitted freely though the air and play it back once you're gone, then encryption means shit.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/1387.cfm for a more detailed walkthrough

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Ace_O_Spades

Keep an eye out for doggy-doors and such. Many people leave them open, and if you're lucky, they've only locked the door lock and not dead bolted. Many older houses don't have dead bolts on side doors which are likely to have said doggy door.

simply reach up and bam, door unlocked.

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Siege

You all are scaring me.

However, I also have to say that this is a wicked thread.

Perhaps it would also be helpful mentioning ways of how to counter these theft attempts?

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This part just makes my posts easier to find

Seaver

Glad to see people are using this to be informed about how to prevent these measures. I dont intend for this to be a how-to on illegal activities, unfortunately the only way to spread the word on how to protect oneself is to spread the word on how said activities occur.

If anyone has questions about any perticular area (I'm sure people will worry more about their house/car), simply ask a question about it. Because there are so many differences in a house/protection, simply list some specifics.

As I hope to convey from this, is no matter how much you think you're protected there are people who know how to get in. The only bonus is most people who do said activities are relatively stupid, but the smart ones are out there.

So please, to keep the thread alive post your experiences or questions.

biznatch

Doggy door means doggy. just sayin'.
Man this thread kicks butt though. So I guess what people need to learn is don't leave valuables in the car, lock the house, get locks that can't be picked or broken easily...and be aware of your surroundings?
Stealing boats seems to be even easier, unless its a huge boat with security systems.
http://ebaumsworld.com/2006/07/carthieframpage.wmv
that video (sry, its from ebaums) shows how fast and how unnoticed mass car robbery can go.

flstf

Maybe buy a car with a manual transmission. I read somewhere that many thieves do not know how to drive them.

Years ago someone tried to steal our Ford van from an apartment parking lot. What they didn't know is that this truck would not start unless you pulled out the choke located under the dash. We found it in the morning pulled out from the parking space with a dead battery. They got our cheap stereo though.

genuinegirly

Thank you for such an informative thread!

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shakran

Another store theft scheme that's hard to spot unless your security people are awake. This works particularly well at electronics stores, where expensive things are often small.:

buy something. Go home with it.

A few days later, walk back in the store with your receipt. Go get the same thing you bought before. Go to the returns counter, and "return" it with the receipt from your previous purchase. Now you have the money back, and whatever you bought.

Some stores now try to counteract this by putting colored tape on items you bring in the store. That's easy to get around - just take something into the store, get the tape on it, then go back out. Take the tape off, hide it in your wallet, and then put the tape on the thing you get off the shelf.

This might be impossible now at stores like Walmart which are using RFID chips in everything they sell - not sure if the RFID's have a unique signature. But other stores only have the UPC to go by, and that's identical for every like-item.

Had a guy pull this back when I was in high school working at a big box electronics store. He did it for several months until we finally got lucky and someone noticed him walking from the shelves to returns.

And if you're working in a retail store in july and you see a guy in a big winter coat walk in. . well. . . he's probably gonna steal something You wouldn't believe how many people tried to pull this when I was working store security years ago.


I'm a little confused on how the laptop car alarm sniffer works. If my alarm transmitter uses 900mhz, and a laptop wifi card runs in the 2.4ghz range. . . I don't see how you can get a laptop to listen to the 900mhz, or to transmit at 900mhz. Can someone clear this up?

Gilda

Does the car remote sniffer work on passive remotes? My car's remote locks/unlocks the car when you touch the door handle. It can be used from a distance, to roll down the windows on a hot day. Do I need to avoid that to protect myself?

Gilda

Dilbert1234567

me too, 802.11 bg runs at 2.4 GHz, and 802.11a runs at 5 GHz, no where near 900 MHz, I guess some alarms are on different frequencies. The logic holds true, record the frequencies, and replay them, but I’m not sure if a laptop could actually do this, unless the remote was actually sending in an 802.11 format and in the proper frequencies

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shakran

Which I would think would be pretty dumb, since parking near a wifi hotspot could cause interference with your remote

Crack

The only way to truly protect yourself from having valuable things stolen, is to not have anything of value At least that is what I tell myself I am doing.

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Charlatan

That was my policy with my car, for years.

I would even keep it unlocked. Let the theif rifle through an empty car... better that than smash the window. Nobody would have wasted their time stealing it, to sure.

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Kadath

This exact sequence is demonstrated in Better Luck Tomorrow.

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flat5

When I drove a car (till 1982) I had slowly built up a very nice set of car repair tools. I kept them in the trunk of the car because that was where they would be needed. One day after work I looked in the trunk and they were gone.
I stopped collecting car tools.

Seaver

There are separate devices that only listen. Think of cell phone listeners, they can be set to listen to various frequencies. Now just think of a computer chip inside which just listens and can determine which are not simply static, then saves those for playback. If they have the right frequency they just alternate the signal.

The signal is extremely basic, usually no more than a few bits of information. So they just sit there on that frequency and wait for the unlock blinkers to pop.

People use the EXACT same method for garage door openers. They will sit on a street and listen when people leave, then just hit it again in a little while. Even easier is to buy extra remotes for every major garage door opener compnay (since each only have 2 different signals to keep cost down). They buy each and just click until a door opens.

However garage door companies have gotten smart recently and now offer devices which alternate both frequency and sequence code every time it's used. While not impervious, it's a relatively easy way to greatly increase your security. Someone can steal loads of stuff from inside your garage without drawing attention. If they carry through the front door to a waiting van people would get suspicious.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. To protect yourself just roll up the windows and lock the door as you're getting out of the car. By using the buttons inside the car nothing is spread through radio waves, so they have no way to access it (without being extremely lucky).

The methods I was talking about is when people simply walk away from their car and use the remote locks as they're walking away. If you're walking to your car, the unlock for the remote is safe considering you're heading to the car someone could be wanting to get into. They dont want confrontations if they're using this method, so they'll sit and wait for the next person who uses the remote locks.

Elphaba

Seaver, I have heard that home owners are very predictable about where they hide their valuables and that thieves know exactly where to look. Is this true, and if so, where are those hiding places so that they can be avoided.

Too late for me...my valuables are long gone.

Gilda

Sorry, I was unclear. You don't have to use the buttons on my remote to lock or unlock the car. If you have the remote with you within two feet of the door, the car unlocks when you touch the inside of the door handle, and locks then you touch a small button on the outside. You can use the buttons, but it isn't necessary. I hardly ever take the remote out of my purse.

It works on the ignition, too. If you have the remote in the car, all you have to do in turn the ignition switch and the car starts--no need for a key.

The thing with rolling down the windows is different. You can roll down the windows as you approach the car using the remote. I've never done this for safety reasons--don't want the car unlocked except when I'm getting in and out--but it can be done.

Gilda

Seaver

I'm not entirely sure. I'm fairly certain that is either a unique code of high complexity, or it is on an alternating frequency which would cause it to be safer.

In addition I would imagine the range would be much shorter than a remote clicker because it is intended to be with you as you are extremely close or inside the car.

I'm not certain, as it's very very new technology, but I'd bet you're safe from these people.

Well most people don't really even hide their valuables sadly. I have heard of people who have broken into something like 200+ houses and to this day have not been caught because they dont take anything a person would notice. They take a single check, bank reports, stock deeds, etc which a person would not notice for a very long time. With these they have more or less full access to your finances, and with the stock deeds they can easily sell off your nest egg.

If you mean hard valuables, such as jewelery/guns/etc, yes everyone puts them pretty much in the same area.

In their bedroom closet. Usually stashed on the side or on top in or around shoeboxes.

Some are smart enough to buy a safe for their house, but don't realize the easy installation the dolly created is more than enough for an easy extraction by the burgerler. Even worse is I have friends who have handheld safes like a theif would not think to just pick it up and walk out. Safes are not rated by impossibility, but by time for a good lockpick to get in. If he has it in his house he has all the time in the world.

Other than their bedroom closet most people will store their goods near their bed. 90% of the time a Rolex is stolen it's stolen from the owner's endtable. Women love their jewelery boxes, unfortunately the entire contents are dumped into their own pillowcase within 10seconds.

Alarm systems are defeated the majority of times by a household pet. Dogs set off motion sensors enough times that their family simply don't turn it on when they leave. Dont fall to this, they have special sensors which are programmed with the average size of a dog and ignore, but triggers with the average person size. If you're going to spend $3k on a system, bust out an extra thousand for a system you'll actually keep activated.

If you buy a safe, BOLT IT TO THE FLOOR. Pay the $50-100 for a proper installation. As stated safes are rated by their time to crack, but most burgerlers won't bother to sit and pick it unless they know 100% there's stuff inside worth while.

Oh yeah, and lock the safe, your doors, and activate your alarm system. I've heard countless stories of people "breaking" into a house by simply walking into the backyard, through the unlocked door, without the alarm activated (because of a dog), and finding a $1k+ safe with the door ajar.

Randerolf

Seaver, every occupation has it's pet peaves. Office workers hate the guy that cann't get his reports straight. Waiters hate the guy that can't make up his mind and changes the menu. What pisses theives off?

Pets? Anal retentive people?

What part do home invadors consider when dealing with pets?

krwlz

Just curious, what kind of car do you drive??


Also, another electronics store (Actually usually walmart) stint ive seen people pull. This kid goes in, buys a brand new nice stereo for his car. Takes it home, installs, puts the old on in the new box, and returns it...

He gets a new stereo every year. He hasn't paid for one in like five.

soccerchamp76

I have heard of people doing that with DVD players at Wal-Mart. They would purchase an expensive DVD player (as expensive as you can get at Wal-Mart), and then place their old one in the box and return it. They never check and even if they do, the minimum-wage employee wouldn't thoroughly check to make sure it is the correct model.

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Gilda

2006 Acura RL. It was a get well present from my father in law.

Gilda

krwlz

First, and most importantly, I hope you got well!?

Secondly, those are nice cars, I just didn't know acura was doing that. Sounds like a neat system. The only car I had actively read anything similar about was a corvette, which was primarily why I asked.

Seaver

People who know their neighbors.

Think of how many people within sight range of your house you know. Not just know his name, but eat meals together occasionally, house-watch each other, etc.

These are the people who would otherwise not bother a criminal when he parks his van in your driveway and starts loading up your TV/Computer/Paintings/etc simply because they do not want to say anything in case it's just a friend helping you move. By knowing your neighbors, and them knowing you, they would know if you were moving or selling off your stuff.

It's these people who would help you by calling the cops.

krwlz

I live way out in the sticks, so people theiving is almost non-existant in the first place. But You are absolutely right. Farmers make great neighbors. In short, most farmers care... As opposed to suburbia or the city, where everyone is crammed together, and are concerned with themselves. Farmers will call the cops, or show up themselves if they notice something fishy going on.

This is the first and foremost reason I hate living in the city (which right now I do for an internship). Out in the sticks, they may not have class, they may have cow shit on their boots, but they are goodnatured, honest people, that all look out for eachother.

Seaver

Indeed, while I lived out in the country it was a completely different atmosphere. If I didn't go and visit all of my friends' family during holidays they would be offended. Here in the city when I speak of such things they look at me as if I was from Africa, when in reality the town is only 2 hours drive.

krwlz

Haha I know it. Find me a woman in the city, who for one, knows our "neighbor" 4 miles away just had a terrible child birth, and the newborn is in intensive care... so Makes them a full, hot meal, and drives over to deliver it, because they are spending all their time in the hospital.

Or bakes bread and pies for our closest and most friendly 4 or 5 neighbor households.

(Sorry, not to threadjack)

Oh.... And theives hate farmers with shotguns... Full of rock salt and from a distance if you're lucky.

Shpoop

Great thread, very informative.

One thing that made me smile was when you mentioned people braking windows with a pillow, then opening the door. I'm in Miami, and we just installed hurricane windows. These things have been factory tested by metal sledge hammers going at 100 mph, and do not brake. I've personally tested them with handheld hammers and have not even seen a scratch or splinter. I'd love to see someone punch it with a pillow...that would be pretty painful.

Cynthetiq

There is a Wired article in the newstand now that details just how to spoof and compromise these passive RF keyed systems. There is even one vehicle that uses key switch and handbrake ala Nintendo type hack to override them.

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krwlz

Damn, yea, that'd hurt. On a side note though, I can't imagine taking a hammer to a window which I'm sure was expensive, even if I was sure they wouldn't break, lol.

Zeraph

Very cool thread.

Two questions. How valuable are computers to a thief? My Dad's old office had like literally $3k computers that got stolen, they ended up tracking em down and they were sold for like $40!

The other question is about dogs, how are thiefs not worried about dogs? Not only do they bark but there's a decent chance the dog could inflict serious injury on the thief. So do thiefs avoid houses with dogs altogether? Or do they kill them? Or can they actually just ignore them most of the time?

Seaver

Computers for those in the know-how are VERY valuable. Not for the hardware themselves, but by the bank records people keep on them. For the average theif it's worth generally less than the weight of carrying them out.

Mace or a cattle prod takes care of the bothersome ones. Remember, they dont give a shit about animal rights. And if they are the type to attack, that means the neighbors are plenty used to trying to ignore their endless barking, so you'd be nothing new. Remember, if they're unfriendly to you chances are they're unfriendly to every jogger running by, every kid playing next door.

Killing a dog is not unheard of, but not something very often. You can use a gun (very noisy), a knife (which means getting in very close to their teeth), or poison (too slow).

More often is when they come accross a friendly dog that's a pure breed is simply loading it into the truck with them. They can then breed it, with some bringing in $1,500/puppy, sell it, or simply keep it as a companion.

shakran

Guess it's a good thing my alarm is a freq/code hopping one then I also forgot to mention something about alarms earlier.

1) if you have an installer do it, make sure it's not an installer who knows where you live or who is likely to come upon your car. Some installers install alarms that they know how to defeat, and then they go swipe cars they've been paid to protect.

2) The alarm is not enough. A fuel kill switch is easy to wire in, can be hidden just about anywhere, and is nice backup security.

3) yes, as has been mentioned, if they REALLY want your car, they're gonna get your car. But an alarm/fuel kill switch will keep the small timers away - they'll move on to easier targets.

shanef

In order to protect your house, you can get an Internet Video Security System. When the thief breaks in the system calls you, cell phone or whatever, you can bring it up on the internet and call the police so they can catch them in action. A thief usually takes their time getting all the valuables they want, since they have been watching and have a good idea how long the owner will be gone or is on vacation. The systems aren't all that expensive. Just ask me if you have any questions about them.

Lindy

Thanks, krwlz-----I've been trying to decide whether to leave Boston after four years and take a job in Western Kansas--near my home town. All I could think of is what I'd be giving up. Thanks for refreshing my memories of some of the great things about rural and small town living. In my town I used to leave my car not only unlocked, but with the keys in the ignition.
Lindy

krwlz

No problem, I LOVE the country. I'm originally from rural upstate NY farmland. Serving my sentence (read internship) in KC this summer. Not enjoying it all that much. And the woman I was referancing by the way (if it matters) was my mother.