spectre

I'm going to agree with everything analog said. I curse enough to make a teamster blush, but I choose to not to until I know it won't be taken in the wrong context, and I don't in front of kids.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Poloboy

I am of the mind that if I can avoid conflict or offense simply by changing my language, particularly in certain situations, then it's worth my while to be aware of what I say. This doesn't just apply to profanities; I believe the same is true for blasphemy and racial slurs. However, I recognize that this avoidance of offending others is part of my personality, and may very well not be a part of others', so I find I am very rarely offended by the language of others. Even when I am, simply pausing and reflecting on how useless it is to be offended soon puts it in perspective, as JinnKai has been saying.

Many have commented on how the use of profanity reflects on the user. I agree that someone who swears openly probably has little concern for whether others choose to be offended by it, but I think it's extremely narrow-minded (at best) to make a blanket statement claiming that the use of profanity is indicative of a lack of intelligence. Let me explain why I don't think this is the case. Certain words, repeated many times already in this thread, can evoke emotions that other words cannot. Perhaps more importantly, they can be an insight into the emotions of the person using them. This is recognized by many as a tool, and used as such. If you're watching a movie along the lines of Schindler's List, and a "bad guy" in the movie (Nazi in this case) starts swearing at a victim, using profanity and racial slur, do you question the intelligence of the screenplay writer? No - you recognize the language as necessary for the writer to give you an idea of the hatred the bad guy is feeling. If one of the Jews looks skyward and screams nasty things at God, do you think the Jew is stupid, because they can't think of a more eloquent way of expressing themself? Do you think the script writer is stupid because they can't send an artistic message without using "bad" words?
What about in poetry? What about in music? What about a seargent addressing his/her soldiers before an onslaught? Is the seargent's hypothetical use of swear words a sign of his low intelligence or poor leadership skills? Absolutely not! He or she can bring about a state of mind in the listener that would probably be impossible with other words.

From a reductionist's view, "fuck" is equivalent to "donut"; "cunt" is no better or worse than "frisbee". However, nobody can deny that english-speaking societies carry stigmas associated with certain words. Using these words is a personal choice, but it's important to be aware of the consequences that choice can have. Nevertheless, I think it is incorrect to say that the words are a sign of low intelligence, or should never be used in any setting.

nrclark

yo, "Jinn" ... isn't it all about "respect" and "right and wrong"?
... without that , what do we have left?
it's also really great that you know a "bazillion" words, but dont have the "intelligence" to know when, and when not to use them.
my bet is, that sometimes you find your self very alone ... even with others in the same room ...

docbungle

And your "choice" to not give a crap about how others feel automatically removes you from their list of things to give a damn about. I guess that's fair. But seems kind of short-sighted, imo. Seems juvenile, in fact, this mind-set of "if you don't like it, then fuck off!"

__________________
Bad Luck City

Jinn

If this board teaches me any one thing, it's that either (a) my writing skills are far inferior to my verbal skills or (b) other's reading skills are far inferior to their listening skills. I've been using the "internet" for almost 10 years now, and it seems that whenever I communicate a strong feeling in text, its always interpreted differently then it would be in a spoken conversation. I think this is due to a lot of things, mostly that inflection and intent are not well communicated. Furthermore, I can better measure a listener's interpretation and reaction to what I've said by their facial features and mannerisms, and clarify my position before a set in stone "Fuck you JinnKai" appears in their brain.

Having hopped from message board to message board in the last 6 or so years, I've also had the difficulty of determining how verbose I should truly make any given post. In face-to-face conversation, you're likely both discussing a topic because you enjoy it, and you remain in the conversation until one of you leaves -- at which point the conversation ceases. On a dynamic page like a forum, however, the conversation can continue in your absense, and often take a less-than-desired turn before you can counteract the misinterpretations of your words. Worst of all, you don't get a chance to restate something rashly or poorly said, as it's emblazoned in size 12 Arial for all to see.

My generalized conclusion regarding all of these things is that (generally) shorter posts make for far better communication -- the longer I make my posts, the less likely readers are to read and understand the post entirely. Because they're non-active participants in the conversation when they first arrive, a long introductory or response posting is likely to make them hurriedly smash their Back button before they're forced to read the novel that the person replied with. Much like this post; I suspect, even expect, that the majority of the original posters in this thread will not return to read this response. It's either too wordy, or they've already dismissed me as a selfish juvenile. I feel that those who take the time to actually read my oftentimes verbose posts agree with me, and do not take the time to reply.

So in about 2004, I began the process of shortening my posts so that they would be more likely to be read -- after all, if no one is reading my post, then I'm truly talking to myself. However, the risk of writing "short and sweet" responses is that they often you cannot fully explain your reasoning behind a statement, and you're often relying on the reader's ability to notice important qualifiers and boldface and realize that you're saying THIS and not THAT.

In the case of this post, the most oft misunderstood quote was mine;

I added a different emphasis, one which will hopefully clarify the intent of a one sentence reponse to a previous poster. It is not that I only care for the opinions of others who have something I need, but that those who choose to judge me (whether based on my words or actions) deserve far less of my time and concern than those who refuse to judge me and listen based merely on the content of my message. In this sense, I hope you can see how I view judging someone based on any attribute of the conversation other than the content as "close-minded." The qualification that I would continue to tolerate or listen to someone so close-minded does not entail selfishness, only a realistic tempering of a philosophical concept. Because we are all individuals who rely on other individuals to supply us with things, we must sometimes deal with people who we do not appreciate on an intellectual case. This was in response to Cyn and Ustwo's comments that I would not, understandly, use swear words when in a job interview. This is true -- even if I did not like the interviewer, for whatever reason, I'd abstain from using language I knew would be offensive.

Now -- on to the OP. The reason I acted vehemently to the original post is that it implies a certain level of censorship, a political concept which I hope to only briefly touch on.

The original post (and quite a few of the replies) implied their own unique disparaging of someone who would use curse words, including stupidity and a lack of class. This seems foolish to me, and I replied with the foolishness in mind. I'm an active member of the EFF and other organizations who oppose censorship in all forms, and it is a very important "principle" to my life at large. I agree with analog in saying that

.. and I suspect that no one here disagrees with this concept. However, I feel a concept that few understand is that offense is a choice. Whether your offense is under my control or not, it is still a choice that you make when feeling "offended" by someone's manner or language. This is a lesson that I learned a very young age, and I assumed that many others had learned the same. When a bully egged me on repeatedly with "you're a faggot you're a faggot you're a faggot" every time I responded with "no I'm not" or "shut up," it encouraged the bully to continue the behavior. By chosing to be offended to his language and react, I only gave him a greater resolve with which to torment me. When I failed to be offended or even react, the bullying soon stopped (or moved to a different point of entry). I'm not justifying swearing, only hoping to encourage the idea that the less you get offended at the better.

On my actual use of "cuss" words, it is often quite slim. Becuase I'm at work half of the day and at University in class the rest of the day, my general demeanor is quite formal. When I was demoing a new version of our product to hundreds of customers and about 50 of my coworkers, I certainly was very aware of my language -- not only the avoidance of "offensive" terminology, but also language that could paint our product in any negative light.

My defense of the "right" to swear is not because I inherently desire it, but because I believe everyone should have the right to say what they want, and reap the consequences of it thusly. We do NOT, however, have the right to avoid offense. People will say offensive things all of the time, and I believe it is a precept of a strong nation that we allow dissenting and inappropriate beliefs to continue. Any attempt to censor others is a de facto admission that we do not support ideals other than our own. Even the message that women should be more "independent" and avoid the Paris Hilton-esque model is an example of censorship. For people LIKE Paris Hilton and people who DO want to be dependent, it is a way of life. To tell them that this is wrong is censoring their voice and ability to live their life in a way they see fit. Yes liberal hippy bullshit on my part, so I'm sorry to any conservative person who made it this far.

Additionally, I think the notion by many posters in this thread that you should place your own comfort below that of others is a dangerous notion, and only setting yourself for abuse. Keeping your comfort at the same level as others is far more healthy, as it allows you to keep a thin level of tolerance -- I will be kind and avoid certain things to keep you happy, but I will not lose part of my critical being in order to KEEP you happy. Too often I hear abused women say that they let it happen because they just wanted HIM to be happy. This comes about by an attitude that says we should set ourselves below others, and serve the greater good before ourself. I'm not saying that we should NOT serve the greater good, but we should be PART of the greater good in that consideration.

Just as many of you value the ability to not say certain things when you know they will be offensive, I ALSO value the ability to not be offended when certain things are said. I think it is a mark of a strong morality and strong control of your emotions when you can recognize something offensive and chose not to let it bother you. Far too many people will take somsething said in a light-hearted manner and take it so personally that they'd demonize the other person. It's the "political correctness" movement that I'm referring to; avoiding certain phrases and mannerisms is certainly acceptable, but asking others to is an intellectual censorship that I'm never going to be comfortable condoning, no matter my age. And that brings me to my final point:

The use of age-specific insults: In most boards that I frequented in my younger years, I avoided disclosing my age for fear that people whould begin to implicitly judge me based on my age, again rather than the content of my message. I never saw a case where I was able to disclose my age and not be the brunt of age-related insults like sonny or my young JinnKai -- until I came to TFP. I felt comfortable disclosing my admittedly young age because I felt like I wouldn't be judged by it, but by my ability to defend my position honorably. This thread has made me really reconsider my disclosure of my age; however, it appears that those who would use it to attack me have already done so, and I hope to see it cease in the future. Beyond that, I'm going to chose not to be offended by the personal attacks in this thread, on both the belief expressed in this post and also because they were partially due to my all-too-brief responses.

So there you have it. I either write a fuckishly long response that no one will take the time to read, or I write an entirely too short message that everyone will take the opportunity to attack me on, even if their vehemence is only the result of a misinterpretation on their part.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

JustJess

Okay, then.
1. I read the whole damned thing. "Fuckishly long response" is an apt description.

2. I also found it interesting that people concentrated on your age as the "must be it" reason they disagreed with you. I will note that my ideas and belief systems and manner of behaving certainly have changed with time - I am still myself, but I pay more attention to the situational appropriateness now than I ever did a few years ago. I attribute that to social/workplace education more than concerns about PC stuff.

3. I do agree that you choose how you react to a situation. And that people should be able to express themselves as they see fit. However:

4. I see no reason why I must purposely say/do things that I know will be upsetting to the others I am currently in contact with. Unless, of course, that's my actual purpose (to upset the others). It's simply a mode of contact, a choice to let things ride smoothly. As much as I don't care what the other people think, neither do I care to deal with their upsetness at my honesty/language. I can be solid in my beliefs and how I wish to interact with the world without needing to impose those beliefs/actions on other people.

It's also a simple matter of the golden rule: Treat others as you would wish to be treated. In my case, that's with respect.

__________________
My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

ClostGoth

I'm just going to go back to CM's original post. No, I do not curse. Though I have found myself slipping up a few times in recent years - hubby brought back some doozies from Korea - but we both work pretty hard to curb our tongues. I know my children have been (and will be) exposed to insulting, offensive language. I've tried my very best to make certain my kids don't spout the knowledge of cursewords at others. Of course they hear it, but not from their parents. They hear it everywhere, but the question is how to make them understand that they don't have to follow the crowd? They don't _have_ to say vulgar things just because they know how. At a local McD's there were three teenaged girls (14 or 15 at best, I'd guess) who were liberally dropping f-bombs everywhere. And loudly, too. In a play place. Mojodragon finally walked over and politely asked them if they could please curb the language around the little kids and he was applauded by four or five tables worth of parents. The girls didn't take this well and let loose another string of verbiage. Now should all of the parents present have picked up their kids and left? Some of the little ones there were too young to explain things to, so it really was the parents offense that was the issue. Most parents don't want their toddlers and preschoolers getting in trouble at daycare or preschool with potty mouth. The manager finally came in and asked the girls, politely, to leave. They protested that they were paying customers and shouldn't be required to leave. He threatened them with calling the police if they continued to disrupt our family play day and they finally stormed off - tossing a shake at the glass on the way past. I guess that's how I see cursing and curse words in general - immature attempts at attention getting. And I don't think it's age related so much as how you're raised. I'm not exactly old, and I do not curse. Nor does it offend me unless there are children involved. And then it's more of a worry about the offense of others - I don't want _my_ kids spewing their angry words around teachers, friends, or at church...

__________________
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I intended to be.
--Douglas Adams

Sultana

A) I agree that people should be able to express themselves.

B) Just because people don't agree with your position does not mean they don't understand you. It is a possibility that they both completely understand and disagree with you.

C) Being willing to voluntarily place your own comfort below that of others is not a weakness, but a strength (yes, my own opinion. What else could it possibly be?). I witness this perception of "placing other people's comfort before my own is a weakness" in more than one of your posts. I'm sure there is a reason for it, and it appears to color many of your posted views.
Disclaimer: Of *course* there is a reasonable limit for placing others before yourself, as there is in everything. The Key is finding a working balance.

D) Being concise is a vital element of good writing.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Jinn

The misunderstanding I was referring to was the rampant selection and raping of one thing I said, not disagreement with my position in general.

You're right. I never place anyone before myself. This is my life, and I only get one. If I can do something for another person, then by all means I will. But if it means placing something I view as important below what they view as important -- I'll win.

Why? I used to be this way, and I cannot fathom it being a strength. Unless of course we're talking about silly things like letting someone else go first in line or doing something for someone when you're very busy -- they're issues of convenience rather than comfort, to me.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Sultana

Mmmm, it's something I'm still learning, heh. I seem to be learning it from the other side, setting boundaries and not letting others control my *destiny*, yet without running roughshod over them.

But I still do think one has to be strong to be gentle, or humble, you know? That compromise thing.
It's a mystery, and I'm not being sarcastic.
AND...I still like your smile!

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Derwood

i won't be offended when you swear in front of my kids if you won't be offended when my fist knocks your front teeth out. Deal?

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Jinn

Man that's witty

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

sapiens

I liked this aspect of the thread. Does language use relate to intelligence? I tend to agree with Shanifaye. When I hear someone speak "inappropriately" in a given social context, I tend to think that they aren't very socially adept, that they don't understand the social nuances of the context. It is in that sense that I believe intelligence and language use are related.

(Of course, I'm speaking in a very general sense, not about JinnKai or any individual. There are likely very bright people that use "inappropriate" language in social contexts. Still, I think that there is a relationship between intelligence and language use).

ubertuber

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Charlatan

This is not acceptable behaviour on the TFP. This is your first and final warning. Either this stops now or you will both get a vacation from the board.

Dark humour and sarcasm don't always work as you intend and given the way this thread has been verging on flames, it isn't welcome.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Cynthetiq

Interesting to see just how this ties right into the very topic even without curse words.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jinn

I'd take the same position, but I've seen far too many exceptions. Does being mute automatically make you not intelligent? You can't speak "appropriately" or even "inappropriately" for that matter. What about Bill Gates? He supposedly has Asperger's Syndrome -- a dehabilitating social "disorder," but I'd be hard pressed to call him stupid too, considering his amassed wealth. Stephan Hawkings? The brilliant quadrapelegic behind string theory? His social "ability" is about the level of a 6 year old. With so many exceptions to this rule, wouldn't it be safer to consider intelligence based on content rather than execution?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Lasereth

I don't mind a cuss word here and there, but when people start saying GD or MFer in regular sentence for no reason, I do find it disrespectful. Someone I know will say GDit because he accidently put 5 cents too much in the drink machine. Uhh...did you really need to Damn Christian's God because you put 5 cents too much in the machine?

I'm a self-admitting cussword user, but I don't use the "big ones" because they <I>are disrespectful</I> to most people. You can argue all you want about how people shouldn't judge others based on how they speak, but in actuality, you should. You're cussing in front of me without caring if it bothers me, therefore you ARE being disrespectful regardless of opinion or image.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Lasereth

Not being able to speak or being disabled is a bit different than cussing in public. When someone overcurses in public, it's a sign that they don't know how society views the word, or even worse, they don't care.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Jinn

What's the option for someone who disagrees with the societal norms, then? It sounds like you're saying those who against society's "rules" are not intelligent. I think we can find just as many exceptions to the rule, too. I'm not equating simplistic speech like "fuck" with important social discourse like "I have a dream.." but rather saying that some social norms are ridiculous. If we continue to put "swear words" on a pedestal, they retain their ability to offend. Through common use, however, they lose potency. I don't claim to know how "hippy" became so much less disparaging than it used to be, but I'm vesting my bets on people claiming it and calling THEMSELVES hippies. If they're calling themselves it, there's no sense calling them dirty hippies -- it's not offensive. The famous "N" word is following this same path. By adopting a similar word and identifying each other it through youth culture, they lessened the "zing" force of the originally offensive word. Another example stands in the offensive "F" word for homosexuals -- it makes no sense to call someone that if they're calling themselves it.. they'll reply with .."Yea, so what?" and your hoped offense falls dreadfully short.

In my effort to ignore and choose NOT to be offended by swear words, I believe I invalidate their usage. If you call me a "motherfucker" and I smile at you, you're likely not going to call me it in the future, because you know it won't offend me. By this manner, words like motherfucker will phase out of speech for new words that society deems offensive.

In essense, offensive words only go away when they become so common that they're not offensive.

At least that's how I see it.. ?

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

sapiens

I would never suggest that social aptitude and general intelligence are perfectly correlated. Few psychological variables are. There will always be individual differences. However, I do think that there is a significant relationship between social aptitude and intelligence. (Even accounting for individual cases like Stephen Hawkings or conditions like Asperger's Syndrome).

Jinn

In retrospect, I realized my connection between Joey Bob who says mothafucka every sentence and someone working for social change was pretty weak, but I thought of an apt example. Apt, depending on your opinion of the man, I suppose.

Everytime I think about this issue of censorship of speech, Eminem comes to mind. So many groups were vocal in their opposition to many of his songs; he's mysogonistic, sexist, racist, advocates murder, etc, etc. Howeer, I was always left with the feeling that these critics hadn't truly listening to his lyrics. Because hidden within the meaning of his rhymes was a very powerful message, one directly opposed to the things he was being accused of. He talks about loving his wife and mother, of hating the violence that he seems in the hip-hop subculture, the stupid racism that almost stopped him from entering the music industry at all, and the trials and tribulations that lead to it all. One could argue that he might've passed the message without his overtly offensive language, but I personally believe that it highlighted for the critics exactly how hypocritical they were.

Again, an instance where content is more important than delivery.

You could call them an idiot or ignore them becuase of their percieved lack of intelligence or social skills, but what if they're in a position to help you? What if the foul-mouthed sailor happens to see you get mugged, chases down the mugger, and presents him to authorities? That judgement wouldn't feel all too fair, would it? I think there's a lot of untapped potential you miss in people if you summarily dismiss them because they say "fuck" all-too-often.

EDIT: Derwood -- in response to earlier: I apologize if I offended you by my comment, but it was an off-the-cuff reponse of my own to the feeling that you were threatening physical violence to me or anyone who would use swear words. I could have, however, said it in a much more progressive (rather than regressive) way; sorry.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Redlemon

If that were to become the case, what would you do when you wanted to offend? Profanity serves a limited but distinct purpose, and you are looking to take that purpose away.

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Charlatan

Having offensive words is part of the joy of language.

Context is everything.

Those who fail to grasp this, fail to grasp the power and subtlety of language.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Cynthetiq

and offensive words evolve and change. something will always replace the evaporating offending word. it always does.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

stevie667

Then another word will simply replace it.

__________________
Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

Sultana

Yeah! Like...Freedom Fries!

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

Derwood

My post was not directed at anyone in particular. My point was that you can make the choice to use foul language any time you want, but you must understand that there can/will be consequences to that choice in certain situations. I was in no way physically threatening another member of this forum and frankly find it ridiculous that anyone would interpret my post in that way.

__________________
"You can't shoot a country until it becomes a democracy." - Willravel

Glory's Sun

Damnit!! I wanted in on the fight!!

Ok, anyway, the whole context thing strikes me a bit funny sometimes. People say that curse words are bad because of how they are used. So.. if I call you a Chair and I'm pissed off.. I guess that becomes a curse word.

:shrug:

ubertuber

Find it ridiculous if you please, but things can be hard to interpret on the internet. We choose to play it safe, and threatening people is a no-no. That's just the way we play the game here.

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Charlatan

No. Sorry. That would be a non-sequitor.

In order for it to become a curse word many more people than yourself would have to start using it as a "dirty word".

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Glory's Sun

ok ok.. you got me.

I've just always failed to see how a word is different than another. I mean really.. who decided certain words were worse than others??

maleficent

what difference does it make?

if a word is considered bad, or politically incorrect, then common sense says don't use it in polite society... What purpose does it serve to intentionally try to offend people?

__________________

Redlemon

I like to ask the Wiki in cases like this. There's some good history there.

Profanity - Wikipedia

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Glory's Sun

It always makes a difference. I'm not going to not say something just because some pompous person decided they didn't like certain words. I also never set out to intentionally offend people. Like I said in my first post, if I know someone doesn't like it I usually avoid saying those things just to avoid the issue. Other times if they are spouting what they believe yada yada then I will naturally start spouting what I believe.

Charlatan

Language is a wonderful and perplexing tool. The individual words we use carry meanings. We give them meaning so that we can be understood. We have curse words that carry a specific meaning. Using words out of context can be confusing. Resulting in your message not being understood.

For example, if I want a drink and approach someone and say, "Can I have a chair please?" You are going to go thirsty.

Furthermore, if I want a drink and approach someone and say, "Hey fuckface, get me something to drink!" I will likely offend the person being addressed. Why? Because we have agreed that the meaning of "fuckface" is an offensive insult.

Wait! There is more. Assuming the person being addressed does not know you, they *will* judge you based on the language you choose to use and the manner in which you use it. Calling someone fuckface is not going to engender positive responses.


Ultimately, the reason some words are "worse" than other is because of usage. We agree that they are offensive words (just as we agree that a chair is not a glass of water). You, as the user of the words, do not have a choice in how your words will be interpreted.

If you decide that "fuck" is no longer going to be an offensive word, while the rest of the population continues to see it as such... be prepared to be misunderstood.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Glory's Sun

I feel like I just watched an infomercial.

So being that most curse words are used to belittle others, then if I'm talking to someone else and saying, "yeah that Jim is a fuckface." then people standing near me should already understand the meaning behind that. There would be no need to ask me not to use that word since the meaning is directed at Jim and not them. I cannot put any blame on myself to how words I use are being interpreted by others. What am I supposed to do? "Ma'am, I'm about to call my friend Jim a fuckface, is it ok if I call him that?"

mixedmedia

I have a filthy mouth. But I moderate my speech without even thinking about it according to the environment, the people I am around, etc. And I will admit that I curse around my kids, and my older children also curse. But I was raised in a home where the curse words were bandied around freely and with great joy. We don't have a problem with it. It's not that we are trashy, ill-bred or disrespectful, in fact both of my parents are educated successful people, who just happen to cuss alot. It's a wonderful form of expression when combined with an overall healthy and vibrant vocabulary. But I do believe there are appropriate times to moderate speech for the sake of respect for others. And like I said, in my family, that just comes naturally.

Min

* "I am actually pro-cursing. I think it's good. I think we should teach kids to curse, so they don't use drugs. It doesn't rot your brain. It doesn't get you pregnant. It doesn't kill you, like tobacco." --Paul Begala

Source: CNN Crossfire, December 8, 2003

Sultana

I love this sentence! I'll be thinking about it for the rest of the day--and smiling, damnit!

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.