Strict Roman Catholic town in Florida - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Sp0rAdiC · 03-03-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

NAPLES, Florida (AP) -- If Domino's Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan has his way, a new town being built in Florida will be governed according to strict Roman Catholic principles, with no place to get an abortion, pornography or birth control.

The pizza magnate is bankrolling the project with at least $250 million and calls it "God's will."

Civil libertarians say the plan is unconstitutional and are threatening to sue.

The town of Ave Maria is being constructed around Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in about 40 years. Both are set to open next year about 25 miles east of Naples in southwestern Florida.

The town and the university, developed in partnership with the Barron Collier Co., an agricultural and real estate business, will be set on 5,000 acres with a European-inspired town center, a massive church and what planners call the largest crucifix in the nation, at nearly 65 feet tall. Monaghan envisions 11,000 homes and 20,000 residents.

During a speech last year at a Catholic men's gathering in Boston, Monaghan said that in his community, stores will not sell pornographic magazines, pharmacies will not carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will have no X-rated channels.

Homebuyers in Ave Maria will own their property outright. But Monaghan and Barron Collier will control all commercial real estate in the town, meaning they could insert provisions in leases to restrict the sale of certain items.

"I believe all of history is just one big battle between good and evil. I don't want to be on the sidelines," Monaghan, who sold Domino's Pizza in 1998 to devote himself to doing good works, said in a recent Newsweek interview.

Robert Falls, a spokesman for the project, said Tuesday that attorneys are still reviewing the legal issues and that Monaghan had no comment in the meantime.

"If they attempt to do what he apparently wants to do, the people of Naples and Collier County, Florida, are in for a whole series of legal and constitutional problems and a lot of litigation indefinitely into the future," warned Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist said it will be up to the courts to decide the legalities of the plan. "The community has the right to provide a wholesome environment," he said. "If someone disagrees, they have the right to go to court and present facts before a judge."

Gov. Jeb Bush, at the site's groundbreaking earlier this month, lauded the development as a new kind of town where faith and freedom will merge to create a community of like-minded citizens. Bush, a convert to Catholicism, did not speak specifically to the proposed restrictions.

"While the governor does not personally believe in abortion or pornography, the town, and any restrictions they may place on businesses choosing to locate there, must comply with the laws and constitution of the state and federal governments," Russell Schweiss, a spokesman for the governor, said Tuesday.

Frances Kissling, president of the liberal Washington-based Catholics for a Free Choice, likened Monaghan's concept to Islamic fundamentalism.

"This is un-American," Kissling said. "I don't think in a democratic society you can have a legally organized township that will seek to have any kind of public service whatsoever and try to restrict the constitutional rights of citizens."

I don't think that this should be illegal, nobody will be forced to live or shop there, only people that want to live by these rules in this place will move there. Maybe I'm not seeing something, but what is the problem with this?

Carno · 03-03-2006, 07:08 AM

Man that will be one boring place to live.

What a nut that guy is.

maleficent · 03-03-2006, 07:11 AM

Ever spend time around Catholics? Or go to a Catholic funeral? Buncha drunks I tell ya... this place will have a bar on every corner...

doesn't sound so bad to me

But please, dear God, have the bars serve something better than Domino's pizza -

Charlatan · 03-03-2006, 07:32 AM

Sounds more or less like a gated community.

You move there an agree to live by the rules of the community.

Not my cup of tea but then I'm not try to buy a house there either.

Whenever I hear of these sorts of communities it reminds me of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and the semi-autonomous gated communities. This one moreso because of the pizza connection.

The_Jazz · 03-03-2006, 07:54 AM

I agree, there's nothing going on here people. Move along.

If you don't like it, move. If it sounds like paradise on earth, I'm sure they'll very happily sell you a piece of land.

cellophanedeity · 03-03-2006, 07:54 AM

I've always wanted to get a nice little town and run it however I wanted.

If all I need is enough money to do so, I'm going to start saving right now!

highthief · 03-03-2006, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sp0rAdiC

I don't think that this should be illegal, nobody will be forced to live or shop there, only people that want to live by these rules in this place will move there. Maybe I'm not seeing something, but what is the problem with this?

Agreed. It's nowhere I would want to live, but I imagine there will be lots of people who do want to live there. So long as the town follows state and federal laws themselves, what civic laws these guys enact are their own business.

percy · 03-03-2006, 08:08 AM

It's interesting how some forms of segregation, if you will, are seen as perfectly normal while others are criticized or chastised. Perhaps it's political correctness, or something else.

For instance, we have the Grammy's which celebrate the best in music worldwide. We also have the Latin Grammy's that well, celebrate the best of Latin music worldwide. Latin music is part of the Grammy's. We have the Miss America pageant which takes women of all ethnicities and crowns a winner, that woman who best represents American values. We have Miss Black America who represents American values. Miss America has black contestants.

Now I'm thinking if a rich American born Arab wanted to make a town strictly Muslim, would such interference be present as in a town being Catholic? What if a rich American born Jew wanted to make a town strictly Jewish, would there be an uproar? How about someone of Asian descent? What about if Oprah tried it?

Sometimes I think people just have to much time on their hands. Usually these people are the 'do as I say, not as I do' crowd that are against this. Like Charlatan said, if you don't want to support it, then don't support it. If the Domino pizza guy loses his shirt, then so be it. Live and let live I say. Life is way to short to care about others peoples business, especially if it doesn't involve them in anyway imaginable.

Ustwo · 03-03-2006, 08:12 AM

If they want to do it good for them, but what kind of people would be attracted to this 'town'?

Lots of issues moving in there

ratbastid · 03-03-2006, 08:16 AM

Yeah, I'm hearing all sorts of talk about "boycot Domino's!" That's ridiculous. This is called freedom of religious expression. I'm all for it. I'm not going to live anywhere near there, but I'm all for it.

Hell, buy an extra pizza, let them pick up another crazed Catholic family from my town and sequester 'em in Florida. Hell, throw in some breadsticks!

jwoody · 03-03-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

"While the governor does not personally believe in abortion or pornography, the town, and any restrictions they may place on businesses choosing to locate there, must comply with the laws and constitution of the state and federal governments," Russell Schweiss, a spokesman for the governor, said Tuesday.

So, if I wanted to make the second worst business decision in history, I could (technically) open a porn/abortion shop in the town and there's very little they (Mr. Domino etc) could do about it. Am I right or what?

Ustwo · 03-03-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

So, if I wanted to make the second worst business decision in history, I could (technically) open a porn/abortion shop in the town and there's very little they (Mr. Domino etc) could do about it. Am I right or what?

Towns can make some things difficult. Where I live they wouldn't let a hooters open several years ago, so they opened it across the street, which is in another town.

cyrnel · 03-03-2006, 08:35 AM

Business opportunity:

Find community boundaries and open Reno II next door.
Provide free shuttle service in wondowless vans disguised as St. Flynt's Prayermobile.

Does this town remind anyone else of Footloose?

maleficent · 03-03-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Civil libertarians say the plan is unconstitutional and are threatening to sue.

On what basis do they have to sue?

it's not like they took over an existing town and are kicking non-Catholics out... they are building a new town... People can choose to live their or not.

Some people are just looking for a fight where there's none... Don't like the rules, don't live there...

Sp0rAdiC · 03-03-2006, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

So, if I wanted to make the second worst business decision in history, I could (technically) open a porn/abortion shop in the town and there's very little they (Mr. Domino etc) could do about it. Am I right or what?

The article said all shops and businesses would be owned by the town and the stipulations of what you could sell would be in the lease, so if they own every building in the town, you'd have to go elsewhere. Plus, I'm sure the town board or whatever it is for zoning would be all people in support of the town, so you'd be hard pressed to get it through that way either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by percy

It's interesting how some forms of segregation, if you will, are seen as perfectly normal while others are criticized or chastised. Perhaps it's political correctness, or something else.

This is something I completely forgot about while reading the article. Ever since I was younger, even in elementary school, I didn't understand why there were things like the United Negro College Fund. If there was a United Caucasian College Fund, I think there'd be some opposition. I think it'll be a very long time before anything like that is accepted.

grumpyolddude · 03-03-2006, 10:03 AM

No sense boycotting Domino's. Tom M. sold his interest years ago. That's the money he's using to fund his venture. I still haven't forgiven him for f@#%ing up the Detroit Tigers after 1984, so Florida can have him!

What could be interesting, if this whole thing is successful: more people than could fit within the city limits still want to be close. They start buying property in adjacent communities. They grow to constitute a strong voter bloc in those towns and load the councils. Whole counties fall under Monaghan's sway!

Sp0rAdiC · 03-03-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpyolddude

What could be interesting, if this whole thing is successful: more people than could fit within the city limits still want to be close. They start buying property in adjacent communities. They grow to constitute a strong voter bloc in those towns and load the councils. Whole counties fall under Monaghan's sway!

That's an interesting thought. Have towns like this been created before? "Themed gated communites" on a large scale? And if so, has there been any evidence to show how it influences political events in the area?

ratbastid · 03-03-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

So, if I wanted to make the second worst business decision in history, I could (technically) open a porn/abortion shop in the town and there's very little they (Mr. Domino etc) could do about it. Am I right or what?

It's a threadjack, but I'll bite: what was the first worst?

fresnelly · 03-03-2006, 10:22 AM

This reminds me of Celebration, Florida.

I wonder about the actual status of this place. What is the legal difference between a "Town" and a gated community or housing development.

Will they have an elected governing council and dedicated municipal services? Or is this just a housing development with mixed use zoning?

grumpyolddude · 03-03-2006, 11:05 AM

Consider Amish or Mormon communities. Do they have an influence beyond their enclave? Don't expect Floridian Catholics to be so introverted!

kutulu · 03-03-2006, 11:48 AM

I think the legality issues are going to largely rely on whether the community will become a legitimate recognized municipal government or if it is more like a uberHOA. If it has a legitimate government then they will be getting state tax money and the church-state issues will be big.

xepherys · 03-03-2006, 11:59 AM

I think it's a great idea. To each their own...

Also, there is no "pizza connection" and no reason to "boycott Domino's"... He hasn't owned it in EIGHT years people. *boggle* RTFA! :-p

xepherys · 03-03-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwoody

So, if I wanted to make the second worst business decision in history, I could (technically) open a porn/abortion shop in the town and there's very little they (Mr. Domino etc) could do about it. Am I right or what?

Did you read the article? The plan is for there to be control over business/commercial regulations. So yes, there is something they can do about it... they cannot give you a permit for your store. Cities and states can ban alcohol just as easily. There are dry counties out there today. Why couldn't they ban porn? Or abortion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by from the article

Homebuyers in Ave Maria will own their property outright. But Monaghan and Barron Collier will control all commercial real estate in the town, meaning they could insert provisions in leases to restrict the sale of certain items.

genuinegirly · 03-03-2006, 04:54 PM

From the article it sounds like a modern zionist movement... and the guy who's heading it has the finances to make it happen.
Fascinating. I really thought this sort of thing had died out - and that Catholics on the whole would be against building such a place. A really big monestary community? I don't know how view it really...

in any case, I'm not sure that it's feasable in the long-term. It seems that an idea like this would fall apart within a few generations - if it even lasts longer than a few years.
What would draw someone to such an environment? Where would they get a continued base of residents? Just how sheltered would the kids be that grow up there?

I'd be interested to see what the official stance of the Catholic church is on this guy's plan... would the Pope be against a community? If even relatively successful, would this be the start of a trend? Would other religions jump back into Zionist mode?

Strange Famous · 03-03-2006, 05:02 PM

I'd have to say.... I have no wish to live in such a place, but I wouldnt oppose him building it.

As long as teh rule of law by the state is challenged, if the worst things he wants to do is ban porno mags and condoms, I say let the people who think thats admirable go live there.

The only issue I would have would be children... certainly it shall be illegal for a child to be subjected to these restrictions, when they do not have the power to leave. Any child born here would be taken into care by the state and brought up within the full range of freedoms of America. Any adult who consents to live there is welcome too imo, whatever the benefits or detriments, they take them with free will. Of course there is a balance. We will allow a town to dictate small matters, but protection from violence and so on will be enforced by the state here.

MSD · 03-03-2006, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

Did you read the article? The plan is for there to be control over business/commercial regulations. So yes, there is something they can do about it... they cannot give you a permit for your store. Cities and states can ban alcohol just as easily. There are dry counties out there today. Why couldn't they ban porn? Or abortion?

They can't ban porn or abortions because the supreme court has ruled in favor of those who wish to provide those to willing adults, and those willing adults who want to recieve them. They can form a town in which it would be entirely unprofitable to offer such things, but not outright ban them.

Randerolf · 03-03-2006, 05:21 PM

I saw an interview this morning on CBS's The Early Show - blown completely out of proportion.

Through out the Bible Belt, religious powers shape local laws along similar lines even in metropolises. I know; I live in one.

We had the Super Bowl the year before. The next year, the city started harrassing the strip clubs after they were done with them. Bold New City of the South my ass.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...-SearchStories

Quote:

New 'Catholic Town' Draws Scrutiny

NEW YORK, March 3, 2006
Thomas Monaghan and Paul Marinelli on The Early Show (CBS/The Early Show)

Fast Fact

Both the town of Ave Maria and Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in four decades, are set to open next year.

(CBS/AP) Plans for a new town, to be governed according to Catholic ideals, have attracted scrutiny from across the country. On Friday, the founders of the community, under the threat of lawsuits, appeared to be modifying their original vision.

Thomas Monaghan, the founder of Domino's Pizza, is helping to bankroll the new town, which is being built 25 miles east of Naples in southwest Florida.

He appeared on The Early Show Friday morning, along with real estate developer Paul Marinelli, to describe plans for the town, known as Ave Maria.

First reports on the project said that the town would be governed according to strict Catholic ideals. But Monaghan and Marinelli now say those reports are based on misconceptions and that these Catholic ideals will apply only to the new Ave Maria University, where Monaghan will be chancellor.

"Ave Maria town is not strictly a Catholic town," Marinelli told co-anchor Harry Smith. "Ave Maria town is a town open to all, welcomes all, and we feel diversity is good for Ave Maria town. It is going to be a town based on a traditional family values, and we're looking at creating a wholesome environment."

While Marinelli had first intended to block X-rated content from cable TV, he says that has been deemed unconstitutional. But other sexually suggestive material and activities will have to stay outside the town limits.

"It's standard in most of our developments not to have adult bookstores, not to have topless bars, and we will not have them," he said. "We don't believe that they coincide with traditional family values."

Monaghan says the establishment of Ave Maria University will be a dream come true for him. His personal story has been an inspiration to many. Raised in orphanages, he was the founder of the Domino's Pizza chain before deciding to dedicate his life to the beliefs of the church.

"It's always been an interest," he told Smith. "It's just that I haven't lived it like I should. I've got some making up to do."

Both the town of Ave Maria and Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in four decades, are set to open next year.

©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

yellowchef · 03-03-2006, 06:29 PM

So the dude wants to start a town in the middle of nowhere, good for him. You dont have to go or move there and neither do I. Most of that area of FL is caucasian, old, rich snotty bible thumping, drunkards anyway. If you dont like it DONT GO. I dont go to places I dont like.

Anyways sounds like a great place for people who like the Everglades, the Catholic religion, the boonies and no porn. If they wanna build it, let them come. Just if they start some shit in Naples while Im there for my summer holiday, watch for me on the news.

Psycho Dad · 03-03-2006, 06:51 PM

There are a few small communities around here that have large Catholic populations. And yes you can't buy porn in them. Bars and liquor stores on the other hand...

FoolThemAll · 03-03-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Frances Kissling, president of the liberal Washington-based Catholics for a Free Choice, likened Monaghan's concept to Islamic fundamentalism.

Ow my head.

Yeah, that's a valid comparison.

Sp0rAdiC · 03-03-2006, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

They can't ban porn or abortions because the supreme court has ruled in favor of those who wish to provide those to willing adults, and those willing adults who want to recieve them. They can form a town in which it would be entirely unprofitable to offer such things, but not outright ban them.

If they own the establishments, why can't they ban it from being sold there? It's sold elsewhere, in the next town over I'm sure, so if these willing adults wanted them they can drive over to the closest video rental place that's not in their town.

Strange Famous · 03-04-2006, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoolThemAll

Ow my head.

Yeah, that's a valid comparison.

certainly it is. fundamentalism does not mean terrorist or maniac - it means someone who fundamentally is guided and lives their life directly in accordance with their religion. This seems to me the intention of this guy, I think it is rather similar to a guy who lives his life as huided by the Qu'ran (especially as Islam and Catholicism are both derivatives of Judaism)

Strange Famous · 03-04-2006, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowchef

So the dude wants to start a town in the middle of nowhere, good for him. You dont have to go or move there and neither do I. Most of that area of FL is caucasian, old, rich snotty bible thumping, drunkards anyway. If you dont like it DONT GO. I dont go to places I dont like.

Anyways sounds like a great place for people who like the Everglades, the Catholic religion, the boonies and no porn. If they wanna build it, let them come. Just if they start some shit in Naples while Im there for my summer holiday, watch for me on the news.

Certainly I agree that, as long as people are free to leave, then any adult who wishes to live in such a place is welcome to. The only allowance is that a child shall not be allowed to be brought up under these restrictions. If an adult wants to deny themselves freedoms allowed within the constitution I would say that they are welcome to. Clearly a child does not have this choice or power.

I think as long as there is an understanding that no one under the 18 will live in this township, and that any child born in the township will be taken into foster care unless the parents will remove the family unit... then it is valid and acceptable.

MSD · 03-04-2006, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Certainly I agree that, as long as people are free to leave, then any adult who wishes to live in such a place is welcome to. The only allowance is that a child shall not be allowed to be brought up under these restrictions. If an adult wants to deny themselves freedoms allowed within the constitution I would say that they are welcome to. Clearly a child does not have this choice or power.

I think as long as there is an understanding that no one under the 18 will live in this township, and that any child born in the township will be taken into foster care unless the parents will remove the family unit... then it is valid and acceptable.

This is going to be one of the rare times I agree wtih you completely. I'll go as far as to say that raising any child in any religion is negligent and unethical, but I'm never going to convince anyone of that who doesn't already agree with me.

xepherys · 03-05-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

They can't ban porn or abortions because the supreme court has ruled in favor of those who wish to provide those to willing adults, and those willing adults who want to recieve them. They can form a town in which it would be entirely unprofitable to offer such things, but not outright ban them.

They don't even have to make it "unprofitable"... they can zone a SMALL area for such businesses, and then simply build other businesses in those "allowable" zones. They can enforce permits for such things and then make it all but impossible to attain such a permit. Or, they can issue a set number of permits, and then issue them all to businesses that will not use them. The latter has been done in Arizona regarding liquor licenses. The state has a specific number available, and they've all been owned by a small group of ppl for years (or bought at HUGE profits). The state is only manufacturing more as a way to artificially change the playing field (and make money).

Also, cities do have some rights as to what they can allow. The sale of alcohol is no more or less protected than the sale of Hustler... but there are dry counties in the south. I don't see the difference.

Borla · 03-05-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Certainly I agree that, as long as people are free to leave, then any adult who wishes to live in such a place is welcome to. The only allowance is that a child shall not be allowed to be brought up under these restrictions. If an adult wants to deny themselves freedoms allowed within the constitution I would say that they are welcome to. Clearly a child does not have this choice or power.

I think as long as there is an understanding that no one under the 18 will live in this township, and that any child born in the township will be taken into foster care unless the parents will remove the family unit... then it is valid and acceptable.

But any parent in ANY town can deny their children those same things. Children simply do not have the right to make certain choices legally, without their parents' consent, as long as they aren't deliberately abused. Once they are 18 they are free to leave though. The earlier comparison to Mormon and/or Amish communities is valid. The fact is that parents have the right to raise their children with the belief system they choose, within reason. A parent denying porn, abortion, birth control, etc. isn't illegal.

Personally, I'd never live in a town like that. But if someone wants to set up a town like that in a "greenfield" area (i.e. not by taking over an already inhabited area), I don't have a major issue with it.

03-03-2006, 07:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Man that will be one boring place to live. What a nut that guy is. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

03-03-2006, 07:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	Ever spend time around Catholics? Or go to a Catholic funeral? Buncha drunks I tell ya... this place will have a bar on every corner... doesn't sound so bad to me But please, dear God, have the bars serve something better than Domino's pizza - __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

03-03-2006, 07:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Sounds more or less like a gated community. You move there an agree to live by the rules of the community. Not my cup of tea but then I'm not try to buy a house there either. Whenever I hear of these sorts of communities it reminds me of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash and the semi-autonomous gated communities. This one moreso because of the pizza connection. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

03-03-2006, 07:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	I agree, there's nothing going on here people. Move along. If you don't like it, move. If it sounds like paradise on earth, I'm sure they'll very happily sell you a piece of land. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

03-03-2006, 08:12 AM	#9 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	If they want to do it good for them, but what kind of people would be attracted to this 'town'? Lots of issues moving in there __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

03-03-2006, 07:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	I've always wanted to get a nice little town and run it however I wanted. If all I need is enough money to do so, I'm going to start saving right now!

03-03-2006, 08:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
percy Addict	It's interesting how some forms of segregation, if you will, are seen as perfectly normal while others are criticized or chastised. Perhaps it's political correctness, or something else. For instance, we have the Grammy's which celebrate the best in music worldwide. We also have the Latin Grammy's that well, celebrate the best of Latin music worldwide. Latin music is part of the Grammy's. We have the Miss America pageant which takes women of all ethnicities and crowns a winner, that woman who best represents American values. We have Miss Black America who represents American values. Miss America has black contestants. Now I'm thinking if a rich American born Arab wanted to make a town strictly Muslim, would such interference be present as in a town being Catholic? What if a rich American born Jew wanted to make a town strictly Jewish, would there be an uproar? How about someone of Asian descent? What about if Oprah tried it? Sometimes I think people just have to much time on their hands. Usually these people are the 'do as I say, not as I do' crowd that are against this. Like Charlatan said, if you don't want to support it, then don't support it. If the Domino pizza guy loses his shirt, then so be it. Live and let live I say. Life is way to short to care about others peoples business, especially if it doesn't involve them in anyway imaginable.

03-03-2006, 08:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Yeah, I'm hearing all sorts of talk about "boycot Domino's!" That's ridiculous. This is called freedom of religious expression. I'm all for it. I'm not going to live anywhere near there, but I'm all for it. Hell, buy an extra pizza, let them pick up another crazed Catholic family from my town and sequester 'em in Florida. Hell, throw in some breadsticks!

03-03-2006, 08:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
cyrnel Adequate Location: In my angry-dome.	Business opportunity: Find community boundaries and open Reno II next door. Provide free shuttle service in wondowless vans disguised as St. Flynt's Prayermobile. Does this town remind anyone else of Footloose? __________________ There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

03-03-2006, 10:03 AM	#16 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	No sense boycotting Domino's. Tom M. sold his interest years ago. That's the money he's using to fund his venture. I still haven't forgiven him for f@#%ing up the Detroit Tigers after 1984, so Florida can have him! What could be interesting, if this whole thing is successful: more people than could fit within the city limits still want to be close. They start buying property in adjacent communities. They grow to constitute a strong voter bloc in those towns and load the councils. Whole counties fall under Monaghan's sway!

03-03-2006, 10:22 AM	#19 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	This reminds me of Celebration, Florida. I wonder about the actual status of this place. What is the legal difference between a "Town" and a gated community or housing development. Will they have an elected governing council and dedicated municipal services? Or is this just a housing development with mixed use zoning? __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

03-03-2006, 11:05 AM	#20 (permalink)
grumpyolddude Deliberately unfocused Location: Amazon.com and CDBaby	Consider Amish or Mormon communities. Do they have an influence beyond their enclave? Don't expect Floridian Catholics to be so introverted!

03-03-2006, 11:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I think the legality issues are going to largely rely on whether the community will become a legitimate recognized municipal government or if it is more like a uberHOA. If it has a legitimate government then they will be getting state tax money and the church-state issues will be big.

03-03-2006, 11:59 AM	#22 (permalink)
xepherys <3 TFP Location: 17TLH2445607250	I think it's a great idea. To each their own... Also, there is no "pizza connection" and no reason to "boycott Domino's"... He hasn't owned it in EIGHT years people. boggle RTFA! :-p

03-03-2006, 04:54 PM	#24 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	From the article it sounds like a modern zionist movement... and the guy who's heading it has the finances to make it happen. Fascinating. I really thought this sort of thing had died out - and that Catholics on the whole would be against building such a place. A really big monestary community? I don't know how view it really... in any case, I'm not sure that it's feasable in the long-term. It seems that an idea like this would fall apart within a few generations - if it even lasts longer than a few years. What would draw someone to such an environment? Where would they get a continued base of residents? Just how sheltered would the kids be that grow up there? I'd be interested to see what the official stance of the Catholic church is on this guy's plan... would the Pope be against a community? If even relatively successful, would this be the start of a trend? Would other religions jump back into Zionist mode? __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

03-03-2006, 05:02 PM	#25 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	I'd have to say.... I have no wish to live in such a place, but I wouldnt oppose him building it. As long as teh rule of law by the state is challenged, if the worst things he wants to do is ban porno mags and condoms, I say let the people who think thats admirable go live there. The only issue I would have would be children... certainly it shall be illegal for a child to be subjected to these restrictions, when they do not have the power to leave. Any child born here would be taken into care by the state and brought up within the full range of freedoms of America. Any adult who consents to live there is welcome too imo, whatever the benefits or detriments, they take them with free will. Of course there is a balance. We will allow a town to dictate small matters, but protection from violence and so on will be enforced by the state here. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

03-03-2006, 06:29 PM	#28 (permalink)
yellowchef Addict Location: Shalimar, FL	So the dude wants to start a town in the middle of nowhere, good for him. You dont have to go or move there and neither do I. Most of that area of FL is caucasian, old, rich snotty bible thumping, drunkards anyway. If you dont like it DONT GO. I dont go to places I dont like. Anyways sounds like a great place for people who like the Everglades, the Catholic religion, the boonies and no porn. If they wanna build it, let them come. Just if they start some shit in Naples while Im there for my summer holiday, watch for me on the news. __________________ the voices in your head are not real--but they still have some really great ideas. always remeber you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. But..you CAN choose the insane asylum where you have them all put away!

03-03-2006, 06:51 PM	#29 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	There are a few small communities around here that have large Catholic populations. And yes you can't buy porn in them. Bars and liquor stores on the other hand... __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.