paulskinback

You don't have to be a catholic to appreciate lent. I'm Church of England, which is Christian and we celebrate lent. I haven't given up anything for lent, or ever have (but i'm not a religious man in general) but after reading Charlatan's intro regarding appreciating those things that you may take for granted, I'm touched and will definately give up one of those things next year. (Too late now of course, or maybe I have no will power right now).

My best friend is giving up alcohol and, believe me, he is a big drinker - but also knows the true meaning of lent.

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Paq

isn't COE a direct offshoot of catholicism, though.

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meembo

My teenager asked me to give up fighting with my ex. I'm such an asshole.

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Suave

Absolutely nothing.

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Grasshopper Green

It's funny you should mention this. The first time I ever saw anyone with ash on their forehead was after I moved to the South after having lived in Utah my whole life. I asked my coworkers why everyone had dots on their heads and it was all explained to me. Yesterday was the first time I've ever seen a Utahn with ash. EVER.

As for me, I've never given anything up for Lent. I can see the benefit even though I'm not religious, but I'm not giving anything up this year. Perhaps next year.

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Charlatan

Technically all Christians are offshoots from Catholicism.

The Church of England actually is a catholic church (just not Roman Catholic).

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Min

Being Orthodox the Great Lent Fast has more strict rules: all meats, including fish, eggs, dairy, oil, and wine, with a few exceptions (example: http://www.goarch.org/en/Chapel/calendar.asp?Y=2006&M=3) That's plenty for me, thank you very much

raeanna74

I disagree. I have been taught and believe that Catholicism and Protestantism are both offshoots of early Christianity but the story is told differently both either of those paths.


As for what I'm giving up. I haven't ever considered giving things up in favor of this time.
I understand some of the ideas behind doing it but I have had so much religion stuff down my throat that I choke on the idea of doing another religious rite or tradition. It all seems so hollow and so many religious people do it like sheep that it's abhorrrant to follow the flock of them.

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Suave

raeanna is most likely correct on the "offshoots" issue.

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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Jove

I gave up: Chocolate, Coffee, Caffeine, Soft drinks, Alcohol, talking about people behind their backs (which always made me uncomfortable to do in the first place) and not having so many negative thoughts.

The last two days were rather difficult, but I have slept better at night, but have less energy half way through the day while at work. I may give up all of these things for more than 40 days because do we really need any of it?

SecretMethod70

Not necessarily but generally correct. Anglican churches have the option of being in communion with the Vatican, but it isn't necessarily so (see the section on Anglicans within the Roman rite here). Nonetheless, you make an important point that most people are not aware of. Roman Catholicism is only the largest rite within Catholicism. Catholicism as a whole has different rites which fall under the vatican, including some eastern rites which allow priests to be married (since it is not a theological decision of the Catholic Church but an administrative one, and the main point of these different rites, since they've rejoined the Catholic Church as a whole, is that they believe in different administrative practices).
Indeed, neither Catholicism or Protestantism is what early Christianity was, but that doesn't make anything necessarily better or worse (and I'm not saying you said it did, but some people think that way ). Personally, the idea of seeking some "pure" Christianity is pretty silly to me. There is a lot to learn from how Christianity was first perceived, and there's a lot to learn from our modern situation as well. One of my religious studies professors had a very interesting phrase he used: "changing to preserve the changeless"....meaning sometimes you need to let go of traditions and beliefs to maintain the relevancy of the core meaning of the religion in the modern era. Or, in the case of lent, you need to reevaluate it and what purpose it has, hence why I don't identify it with "suffering with Jesus" or any sort of symbolism ("Jesus was a 'fisherman' so we eat fish on Fridays") but with a more Buddhist-like approach: an exercise in rejecting the material world. Especially seeing as how materialism is the most relevant vice in western society today, most especially within the consumer culture of America.
I understand what you're getting at. But does the fact many people are sheep and don't think about what they're doing necessarily mean what they're doing is wrong? The biggest reason I have had problems with the practice of lent in the past is because it seemed to me there was nothing to be gotten out of it. For the most part, I was right. People give something up because they're "supposed to" and to "suffer with Jesus" and all that crap...and in the end it means nothing. Most of us are so distant from any real suffering that we have no idea what it means, and to equate giving up TV or something like that with being a martyr is just ridiculous, and deep down inside we all know that. Sure, it can serve as a reminder of Jesus and his message for 40 days, but 1) I don't think it lasts as a reminder for 40 days for most people and 2) I don't think the awareness it creates lasts beyond that 40 days. Worse yet, blindly doing something because you're told it's what you're supposed to do at this time of year is simply pointless. But, using TV as an example, the fact it is so difficult to ween ourselves away from it is a testament to the fact we each have our own many material "addictions." Reminding ourselves of this, and challenging ourselves to take a little focus off of these things and place it elsewhere in our lives *is* a benefit, and the awareness it creates can last well beyond the 40 days of lent. So, yes, I honestly think lent is pretty meaningless for most people who practice it, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that means the practice itself has no meaning. It's all in how you choose to experience and interpret it.

Try more water and fiber in your diet...should help.

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Charlatan

What I was getting at was that the Catholic Church, while Protestantism makes a different practice of Christianity, broke away from the Catholic tradition in the 16th century.

I was not accounting for Oriental Orthodoxy or Nestorians as I didn't think to take them into account.

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Charlatan

That's why I mentioned it in the first post. What I am after here is more of a secularization of Lent, much in the same way Christmas has been embraced by one and all. I'd like it to be a traditional time of reflection on material things (as Secret suggests) but also a time of reflection (by extension) on those who go without.

I don't think we do enough longer term type reflections in our increasingly secualrized lives (heck, even those who claim to be religious could use more reflection).

I was chatting with a muslim friend about Ramadan and the fasting they do and it occured to me that Lent is a similar tradition (much overlooked). When he spoke of what Ramadan meant to him I began to wonder if there wasn't some way to introduce this (longer term) time of reflection to everyone. Call it suffering if you like but I like to see it as doing without something that you take for granted (TV, coffee, chocolate, etc.). It is my thought that everytime you go to reach for it, and if you are willful enough to resist it, you will take that moment to reflect. Enough little moments and it adds up to a greater realization of the place of material posessions in your life.

It made sense to me when I thought it up. This is about a "spiritual" as I get folks.

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Poppinjay

I'm starting late. I realized that at this time, I do need to be very clear headed and un-muddled in any thought process that goes on. So I am giving up alcohol, except for wine on Sundays, I’m giving up sitting on my butt to pass the time, I ‘m adding walking trips to Old Town once a week, and I’m giving up snacks except for fruit or vegetable, and I will try to see if I can fit yoga into my schedule, which is something I’ve wanted to do for some time now.

I thought about giving up caffeine, but I don’t really use it that much to begin with.

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xepherys

I'm giving up giving things up for lent. To bring my own burden to this thread, I also forsake the act of giving something up because it could be gone tomorrow. If God Himself has granted mankind the joys we receieve on a daily basis, then denying them when you could literally lose them the very next day almost seems sacreligious. I'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here since I am not Catholic (or even Christian anymore, truly).

I suggest instead of denying yourself something for 40 days a year to remember to be thankful, that you'd get more from being thankful daily for things like:

a) Not being deployed in Iraq (if you're a soldier)
b) Not being "that poor person" on the news each night
c) Not losing you child(ren), if you have any, on a daily basis.

Life isn't about giving things up, it's about having the things and people around you that fulfill you and help you get through every day being a good person. *shrug*

< /soapbox >

stevie667

I'm going to give up eating Norwegians.

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Poppinjay

Sometimes we lose sight of those particular goals. I don’t think it’s required to give up anything that brings you joy. I think it’s a good time to re-examine some of those things which a person might cling to, even if it’s an unhealthy habit, practice, or relationship.

Another reason for participating in lent is that a person doesn’t really know how that poor guy on the news feels unless that person has suffered. The Buddhist and early Christian practice of fasting is a way to encumber empathy for those who are suffering, and hopefully be able to understand the best way to help them.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet