dksuddeth

snowball fight suspension
THIS is what our anti weapon propaganda/peace activism/no tolerance crap has gotten us.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

Rodney

Snow at a high school? Dumped in the parking lot, without supervision?

I can just see all the cliques trying to get even with all the other cliques they don't like, much less the outcasts that everybody likes to pick on. I can see people bringing it into the school and bombing people with it all day. I can see the jock squad stuffing it down the tops of the cheerleaders and guffawing at their great wit. I can see the zillions of complaints from parents.

Sorry; you don't let the inmates run the asylum. The principal was right.

maleficent

Anything could cause a disruption or a disturbance...

on any given day - anyone could get 'upset' about anything...

fercrissakes their reasoning is absurd...

Yes, a snowball might do some damage... especially if they are ice balls...

when i was in school - father what a waste taught us how to play King of the Mountain with the two story mountain of snow that ended up in the parking lot from plowing it - -Times have changed... and not for the better

__________________

The_Jazz

How is this any different than a food fight? They would get suspended for that too, and I don't think that anyone would argue that it wasn't appropriate. Throwing snowballs at an inanimant object would get you a 1 day suspension in my high school and at a person was 3 days. And we had snow on a semi-regular basis.

Mal, I think that the entire idea of bringing the snow to school was for a snowball fight, not to just look pretty. The intent was to encourage someone to hit someone else with the snow.

I agree with the title of the thread that there are some wacky ideas in California, but this isn't one of them.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Ustwo

While I think they were a bit over the top, just because you are pro-gun ownership (as am I) doesn't mean everything like this is realated to it.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

ScottKuma

Hey! Who threw a slushball?!?

Principal's probably upset 'cuz he was targeted.

__________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

GoogleMap Me

cyrnel

Snowball fights are a problem? (insert big ASCII pic of my jaw dropped to my laptop)

Do the kids still walk on the ground? Gotta watch that pavement. Yep, can't be too careful.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

maleficent

The difference between a food fightand a snowball fight- is a food fight usually takes place in the cafeteria and makes a big mess. A snowball fight takes place outside.. and I'd imagine the snow would melt pretty quickly and do some watering of plants...

I'm glad i went to school when I did...

__________________

cyrnel

Couldn't agree more. Some of my fondest memories are of snowball fights during break, and to from school. Sure, it can get out of hand but so can rocks, grass, chemistry experiments, whatever. It's part of growing up and it comes with experiences.

Really, the safe thing would be to lock them up until puberty is over.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

The_Jazz

Having been the victim of a snowball pummelling for no good reason as a very small freshman in high school, I have no tolerance for the kids in this situation. Mal, your point about the mess is well taken and accurate, but a salsbury steak could put someone's eye out! Seriously, you've got to admit that it was only a matter of time before someone on the baseball team whipped a snowball at some smaller kid minding his own business and smacked him the head. These two brought the snow to school with the intention of causing mayhem.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

BadNick

In my kids elementary school, after our recent snowfall the principal was outside with the kids throwing snowballs around at each other.

I'm surprised they let pencils into school nowadays ...they can poke your eye out!

snowy

If the boys wanted this to become a tradition, they should have enlisted the assistance of the student government and included the administration in their plans.

Personally, I can see how this was a danger issue if they did it in a parking lot. They should've been having their snowball fight on a sports field where they were less likely to do damage to themselves and surrounding property. Furthermore, these days schools are overly concerned about getting sued.

What should have happened here is that the boys should have worked with the student government to do this with permission. I know at my high school permission would have been granted given it was a spirit week and we had the free time for it. However, in a normal school day situation, bringing snow in to the student parking lot is a huge distraction. They really should have planned ahead.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willravel

Iraq, Iran, North Korea, french fries, mail, and snow balls.

Welcome to the United States of wet my pants.

This reminds me of a time when I was in middle school (and dinosaurs rules the earth). I was getting my books from my classroom durring lunch, and the vice primcepal told me to get out of the classroom because I aparently wasn't supposed to be in there. I obliged immediatally. She said, "Go to my office". I started walking. I had a blank look on my face and showed absolutely no sign of disrespect. She screamed, "Where the hell do you think you're going, mister?!" :cunfused: "I was going to..." "I don't want to hear it!" I was suspended. Why? Because sometimes the administrations at schools are nothing but idiots who think they know best. Combine that with the hypersensitivity from frivelous lawsuits against innocent scnools, and we have a clear and present danger to our students. While this snowball case is something to chuckle and shake your head at, it is symptomatic of a growing problem that should be addressed. There are certian things schools should not be heald accoutnable for, such as snowball related injuries in Riverside.

flstf

We had snowball fights all the time when I was in grade school. I don't recall any at the high school level, it must have seemed kind of chilidish by then.

The_Jazz

Easy to say until its your kid that gets hit in the face with a gravel-filled snowball. I enjoy snowball fights as much as anyone else here, but I still don't see where this is appropriate for the school. They showed up with the intent of disrupting, just the same as if they had water balloons or had let loose a greased pig in an assembly. Sure, they didn't intend to harm anyone, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Psycho Dad

Yup... A fart in the library. Someone passes gas, a big stink is made of it and the next thing they will be checking every asshole who walks in the building for an anus.

I'd wager that this school, like many in the country these days has bigger issues to worry about than a snowball fight that *could* have caused problems.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Willravel

But who should really be heald accountable? Should it really be up to the schools to police where people can or cannot have snowball fights? If they miss class, give em tardi slips. If they break a real school rule, punish them appropriatally. If they bring snow to school, call the parents and let them take care of it. Suspention is overkill. Hold the people who supplied the car responsible. If they're over 18, let them be charged with assault if any gravel balls make thair way into the situation.

clavus

I went to school in CA. The snow was not trucked in, it was provided by God. You could get in trouble for throwing snowballs, just like you could get in trouble for throwing dirt-clods.

It was also forbidden to throw waterballoons, pine cones, sticks, hunks of turf and baby livestock.

In an attempt to relate this to the original troll...er Poster, I should point out that well over half of the male students, teachers and adminstrators in my highschool owned guns and/or bows. A fair number of the females also owned arms.

__________________
Ass, gas or grass. Nobody rides for free.

dksuddeth

I say again, kalifornia is a farked up state. I grew up in Illinois, the police state of all police states at a time when we were still allowed to own weapons, even though we had to have a license, and snowball throwing was LEGAL, so whatever the hell your problem is, don't F'n refer to me as a troll especially when you throw random irrelevant shit like waterballoons, pine cones, and firearms. whatever the hell thats supposed to mean.

__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

goddfather40

Then please don't use this example as a reason why you think California is so screwed up. It is asinine. Have you lived here? I'll tell you what, I grew up about 10 miles from where this high school is. Riverside is a fairly heavily conservative area which tends to support many causes that you seem to be sympathetic towards.

I can go off on Texas if I wanted to and probably find some stories on kids getting suspended for bringing nail clippers to school or something. I've visited Texas many times, but I haven't lived there and really am in no position to say how fucked up it may be.

__________________
My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message.

I got ho's and I got bitches,
In C++ I branch with switches
-MC Plus+

maximusveritas

Mountain out of a mole hill in my opinion. Out of all the things screwed up in this world, this particular item would be about #1,203,934,309 on my list.

Also, as a Southerner, I always hate it when people from other parts of the country stereotype us and draw incorrect conclusions about us based on what little they happened to learn about us from the TV or in the news.

MSD

And here I was getting annoyed that my mom was pissed about the rifle a friend gave to me as a gift ...

n0nsensical

Hey, we may be farked but at least we didn't get our own tag ON Fark...I'm looking at you,

__________________
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

smooth

I think us Californians are in perfect position to say how fucked up Texas may be.

__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman

ubertuber

The article also doesn't make it clear if these guys made snow available for others to throw at them. If they didn't it's more of a snowball attack than a snowball fight. However that's neither here nor there - it's probably the prospect of ice or gravel in a snowball that makes them treat this like other thrown objects (food, rocks, pencils, ninja stars, etc.).


Personally speaking, I find the comments about waterballoons, pine cones, sticks, hunks of turf (see Clavus' post for actual reference) a lot more relevant than rants about gun control... In short:

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

Pip

"If you bring snow to class, make sure you bring enough for everyone!"

From Kindergarten and up, I remember snow ball fights being allowed under certain conditions:
* Only throw snowballs at someone participating in the fight. If you pick up snow and start making a ball, you're in the fight.
* Put nothing but snow in the balls, and they shouldn't be too tightly packed.
* Don't throw snowballs at windows, passing cars, animals, innocent bystanders etc.
* No ganging up on someone. Keep the fight fair and even.

As long as you followed the rules the teachers didn't mind, but if you played dirty you got punished. Nowadays, I don't know... I think it's mostly forbidden. Kids these days are wussies.

analog

You can't get mad at someone for pointing out the trollish nature of a trollish post. There, it's been said. That's my opinion. It was. Might not have been intentional, but it registers on the troll-o-meter.

You also can't go off on someone when your opinion bashes something you know nothing about, and they DO know something about it. I don't care how right you think you are. You can state your opinion- but don't attack other members. Even IF he attacked you first (which he didn't, calling you a troll is not an attack), you still are not within right to retaliate.

It's a good lesson for all.

PLUS: I wouldn't be getting too high and mighty about the subject matter, considering your opening post had one line of commentary. You're supposed to have something substantial to start discussion when you post an article like that. You hardly have an argumentative leg to stand on.

Dragonknight

Love Cali, but this is some crap. Suspension is WAY over the line in my eyes. Give them detention or what ever.

__________________
Freedom is NOT Free.

Blackthorn

Let me get this straight here ... we're talking about two pick up truck loads of snow right? It's not like they had a blanket of 6 to 10 inches that they could use to cause this all out pandemonium that obviously must have ensued when the first ice grenade was launched. This seems to be clearly a case of giving a badge of authority to a personality who is not equipped to handle it. In a sense we're watching that personality melt down more quickly than the two truck loads of snow. Yeah yeah...stop the snowball fight, maintain the peace, and send everyone off to class with a good laugh.

Everyone laughs except the one disturbed kid that was hit with an errant snow bomb. The issue of future retaliation is a good one to consider. Kids nowadays can take that to a whole new level. You piss off the wrong kid who's family has an affinity for weapons and the next thing you know you've got another trench-coat mafia forming with the next Eric Harris/Dylan Klebold plotting their revenge. It's different today. This punishment may not have fit the crimes of our past but ... and maybe this is a leap ... but today ... times have definitely changed.

I don't think I would have suspended these two. If there were kids caught in the frekas who have a history of confilct or were not part of the "in crowd" I'd put them on a watch list for signs of malevolence.

__________________
What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

Gilda

Seems entirely reasonable to me. Schools have an obligation to protect their students against mischief-related injuries, and themselves from litigation happy parents who sue over things like a child being asked to share the valedictorian title.

This is a legitimate case of concern for student welfare and disruption of the learning process.

The defense was laghable. "There's no rule against bringing snow to school." I doubt theres a rule against bringing rabid grizzley bears to school, either, but a little common sense applied might lead you to that conclusion. Of course that's an extreme example. I do it to make the point that not having a behavior spelled out as specifically prohibited does not mean that it's ok to do it. I call this the "Do Not Eat the Daisies" rule, after Erma Bombecks essay of the same name. She had a very precocious child who would rules lawyer at the age of three or four and do things like, well, eat the daisies decorating the kitchen table if not specifically forbidden to do so.

I also see no connection whatsoever to gun control.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

ubertuber

I suspect this is exactly what was going on. Nicely said Gilda.

Also, the grizzley bear example was good... Made me laugh - but it got the point across.

__________________
Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

msh58

i just hope the kids had a good time before they got caught. i didn't even know it snows in california, so much for an eternal brian wilson song.

Zeraph

I see no connection. Any HS in Az would do the same thing. If this weren't the TFP I'd say this was a troll.

Coppertop

Exactly.

What does this story have to do with California, exactly? Methinks the thread is horribly mistitled, in that California should be replaced with Ramona High and state with School.

But then the soapbox wouldn't hold up.

Psycho Dad

But isn't it somewhat sad that they have to do that? We as a society have had to adapt to protecting ourselves against sue happy persons. This same day that these kids were suspended I'll bet there were kids in colder climates tossing snowballs at one another like it was a natural act. When I was a kid I can't recall anyone ever getting anything other than a few feelers hurt by a snowball. When that happened an apology was often offered and accepted.

Even these days I'll see adults leaving work on snowy days tossing a snowball or three about the parking lot as people clear the windshields.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Gilda

Sure, I think it's sad that a lot of fun stuff that I did as a kid is prohibited in some schools. Dodgeball is one of these--if regulated by adults watching to make sure it doesn't get out of hand, it's not that bad. But there is potential for injury and resulting lawsuits, and even when they win, the suit itself tends to cost money that could be used for upgrades or textbooks.

So, sure, I think it's sad that schools have to do this, but I don't really blame the schools for that.

Gilda

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert