clavus

I know a kid from Iran. Really he’s a friend of a friend. He lives in the oh-so-liberal San Francisco Bay Area, for whatever that is worth.

Anyway, his family fled Iran when his dad committed the crime of speaking well of the United States. His dad was arrested, sentenced to death and ...remarkably escaped.

This kid went from living a good life (dad was an airforce pilot, mom was a nurse) to losing everything and living in a small apartment in a country where he barley spoke the language.

So he worked hard, learned English and tried to make friends.

Then 911 happened.

Kids at school ratcheted up the level of shit they gave him. He was regularly called a terrorist. Their landlord started handing out fines and threatening to evict his family for every reason he could: car not parked “properly”, other tenants complaining about noise, or smells of their cooking. Loads of BS.

Now this kid is a good guy. My friend gave him a new bike, which he loved. But he sold it (with my friend’s blessing) and sent the money to his less fortunate buddy in Iran. He felt guilty having a skateboard (that I gave him) AND a bike, while his friend had neither. Not your typical teenager.

Then he got beat up. Bad. A couple of older kids beat him, broke his jaw, and called him a terrorist. The school principal told him that he should try not to make himself a target (whatever that means). The cops wanted nothing to do with him.

Now the kid is really not a kid anymore. He is a young man. He dresses in black and is working on a beard. He covers his head and does what he can to look like the terrorist he is accused of being. He feels isolated and repeatedly tells his parents that he wants to go back to Iran.

Just like I dyed my hair and moved away from the church as a teen rebel, this kid has gotten very much into Islam (far more than his parents) and acts more and more like the people his family fled.

There is no moral to this story. It’s just a sad thing I’ve watched develop over the last few years.
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For those of you who haven't seen my other posts, you ought to know that I in no way support those who think burning an embassy is a good way to deal with an offensive cartoon.

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Daniel_

Seems to me that if a society treats people like shit, they get resentful and fearful.

Then along comes a manipulative bastard with an axe to grind, and says that they can solve all of your problems and make people fearful of you, rather than beat you.

It's a short step from that to strapping a bomb to yourself.

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Toaster126

Sometimes if we get labeled enough by society or people expect certain things from us, it really does start to change us.

Another reason we should strive to not label people.

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Ustwo

Odd that we don't have any of that in the oh so conservative suburb I live in.

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basmoq

that sounds about right, i have a friend who is only half pakistani and he was harassed quite a bit, but he didnt let it get to him that badly...

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Seaver

My grandparents were harrassed during both World Wars for being German, my great grandpa got pulled out of his car and beaten half to death.

This is nothing new, you REALLY need to check your friend however, and ensure that those people who are treating him like shit are in the minority.

It is quite ironic as pointed out, however, that in the liberal-tolerant world of San Fransico this is happening yet it doesn't happen here in Texas.

Jeff

My roommates an Iranian, but he's treated well. His uncle however, gets disrepected in whatever he does. It's quite sad, so many ignorant Americans.

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For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command or faith a dictum. I am my own God. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.
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Daniel_

I have no proof, but I wonder if that's because people coming to the States from troubled areas don't settle in Texas, because it has a reputation for Conservatism?

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╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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The_Jazz

I'm not sure about that - my dad's side of the family is German and moved to Southern Mississippi in the 1820's. I think that imigration tends to follow patterns where an individual or a single family is the pioneer and then tells their friends and extended family how well they have it and attract more of the same group. I know that's the way most of the groups that have come to Chicago have worked, especially when you see a group that takes over a neighborhood (i.e. the Ukrainian Village is more Hispanic than Ukrainian now).

I don't have anymore proof than you do, but it's just my experience. *shrug*

By the way, what's happening to this Iranian kid is probably the most efficient way that I can think of to turn anyone into an extremist of any sort. You can replace "Iranian" with "Black" or "White" or pretty much anything else, have a majority group treat the individual in the exact same way and have them react pretty much the same way. It's sad, really.

maximusveritas

Well, from my experience, places with liberal reputations tend to have some of the most extreme conservatives and vice versa. SF may be overwhelmingly liberal but the conservatives who are there tend to be extremely conservative. Michael Savage, one of the worst of the hate radio talk show hosts, got started there. A number of White Supremacist groups have a strong presence there as well That's all beside the point though.
If you don't think a similar story is happening in every major city in the US, you're just not paying attention. From my personal experience, I know quite a few Muslims who have turned much more extreme in the aftermath of 9/11, but especially after the Iraq War. I think the fact that they are doing well in life keeps them from going off the deep end, but I'm sure that there are many people here for whom that is not true and that scares me a little bit.

Trisk

It's always sad to see something like that happen.
It kind of disgusts me that no authority figures stepped in to help.
I lived in New York during September 11th and for a while afterwards, and nothing like that happened at my school at the time, nor at my little brother's. You'd think New Yorkers would show the stronger reaction. I mean, perhaps there was racism that I just didn't see, not being Muslim or from the Middle East myself, but I can say for sure that none of them were beat up, and any harassmant was done by only a few, because I never saw it.

dlish

maybe some of our resident social scientists like abaya would be so kind to give us her insight into this story...

the way i see it, there may be a lot of issues here...we have all heard how poverty/war/isolation etc can drive people to extremism. it is also a well known that many cultures living in western society tend to become more religious/ethnic etc than those back home in their motherland in fear that their own kids may lose their language/culture/religion etc. some even tend to want to go back to their place of origin.

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Ustwo

Yes we all know its our fault max

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Seaver

I dont mean to sound like a dick, but that's blatently false.

My grandparents settled in Minnesota, not exactly a conservative state.

Texas has a HUGE immigrant population. True the majority is Mexican, but there are tons of Asians/Indians/Arab/Persians here in Austin and in Houston. At UT (64k students) there has been only one instance of racism reported, one that's infamous here at the University. On the morning of 9/11 a Muslim professor was spit on by one of the students. The student apologized publically afterwards, and I've talked to many others (plenty in Middle Eastern Studies which I study) and none have reported anything in Texas as bad as when they were in California.

irateplatypus

that is truly a sad tale...

i've known a number of mid-eastern/north-african muslims who've immigrated to the states... (thankfully) i can't recall a single instance of this type of behavior.

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~ Winston Churchill

Charlatan

This story isn't all that different from any teenager who grows up and joins a gang (or becomes a fundamentalist Christian for that matter). In my mind what we see at work here is the same desire to belong to something greater in the face of alienation and a sense of power in the face of powerlessness, righteousness in the face of impropriety.

With the exception of righteousness, gangs supply this just as readily as many forms of religion (so are other subcultures for that matter, they just aren't as outwordly violent but they are equally transformative).

It isn't always a sad story.

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clavus

We didn't have that in the conservative, rural town where I grew up either.

Of course we didn't have any Mulims around. But the one Jewish guy in my school regularly got 18 kinds of shit.

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abaya

(Been gone all weekend again..)

Well, if you take anyone and beat them to a pulp, that's one hell of a "material condition" to influence the formation of your ideology. Granted, there are plenty of people whose material condition are just as bad and they do not turn to extremism; there are also plenty of people who seem to be better off (those "middle class" types) and who DO turn to extremism.

Keep in mind, though, that "material conditions" does not always mean "poor" (and this relates more to the other thread, but I'll say it here too). It also applies when a group's entire material culture (e.g. their economy) is being overwhelmed by a dominant culture, particularly the core market taking command of the periphery, and people start to feel threatened by that. An extremist ideology is often the most attractive path out of desperation... hell, I've been there. I was an extreme evangelical many moons ago, but it wasn't because I was poor. It was because my parents were splitting up and my home was falling apart. My parents basically walked away from their emotional responsibilities and the church took their place. Is that material conditions? Yep, I think so.

Anything that destroys the material components of your daily life, including basic things like having food to eat together as a family, or getting beat up on your way home from school... all of that has the potential to shape your ideology. It also works for those who are affluent... anything that *enhances* your material conditions is going to become ideologically attractive, too.

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xepherys

Calvus-

That truly is a sad story. Does he have internet access? Is there any way you can maybe get him involved in the TFP? I mean, maybe it sounds a bit out there... but perhaps seeing intelligent folk from around the world that wouldn't just assume poorly of him might open his eyes to some things.

xepherys

For me it was the flip side. I lived in a very liberal, blue collar suburb of Detroit. We had ONE black kid that went to school with us and I don't think most kids, literally, even realized he was black. Later in elementary school we had ONE Japanese girl start with us, too. The only reason I noticed she was different was because she was cute as hell. I guess my thing for Asian girls started early. The same trend even went through to high school. We had, to the best of my knowledge, ONE chinese girl as well. She was also VERY popular, and most people didn't even notice. I knew racism existed, but it wasn't until after college that I started to notice HOW prevelant it really was. I guess we were just lucky kids.

On that note, if I ever heard my son making racist comments, I think I'd lose my sanity on the spot. I have no reason to believe such a thing would occur, but man...

Charlatan

My son repeated some homophobic crap he heard in the school yard (he was in grade one I think). We had a little conversation about why he thought gays were bad. He didn't really know why other than man shouldn't "be" with other men. When I pointed out to him that our neighbours, "Glen and Luc" were gay, you could hear his brain clicking away.

"But they're just friends."

"Yes they are, but they are also very much in love with each other. They are gay."

More brain clicking and thinking. "Oh. I didn't know that."

It was kind of fun to watch a life lesson sink in with such profound force. To watch him balance what he'd heard in the school yard with his own personal experience -- his personal experience won the day.

It's one of the great things about being a parent.

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- Old Man Luedecke

xepherys

Good story Charlatan... :-)

clavus

Similar situation where I grew up. The ONE black kind in my class was a quiet, smart guy. Everybody was cool to him. He was Homecomming King. The ONE Mexican guy in my class (in the whole school, I think) was a dipshit jock who took Spanish 1 and got a C. His fellow jocks called him "Taco" and "Wetback", but nobody said called him names with any real malice.. The Asian guy a year older than me and the asian guy two years younger than me - they were both teased for being Chinese.

The only minority we had in any numbers were the Indians (Native Americans.) Nobody gave them shit, but by the time freshman year was over, they weren't around to give shit to anyway. They were all either in jail, in continuation school or dropouts.

So based on my experience, in the far northernmost reaches of NorCal, you're OK if you are Mexican or black, but you will get a lot of shit for being jewish or asian. Oh, and if you are a Native American, your life is going to suck, but you won't have to worry about kids calling you names.

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abaya

Replying on the fly...

It seems that most people don't have a problem with a "token" minority in their midst (e.g. all of your school examples, which also applied to mine since I grew up in suburb of Seattle). However, I think the tensions start to build once minorities start to threaten the position of the majority.. once they move from "that one ___ guy, he's cool" to "that pack of _____, they're on our turf..."

I didn't think I was racist either, growing up, but how could I be so sure? I had never been in a group where the dominant group wasn't white. I always felt safe as part o the majority. You can imagine how suddenly "racist" I felt when I drove into the wrong part of town one day in college... my prejudices jumped right into my throat before I knew what was happening.

What I mean is, there was one black guy at our school, and he never threatened the status quo. Had I grown up in an inner-city school with a minority that was 20-40% or more of the school population (instead of less than 1%), maybe I would have developed more anti-ethnic feelings... or maybe I would have remained open. Who knows. What do you guys think?

/sorry if this is a threadjack.

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SirLance

The most successful of these being Hitler.

Whole countries can react just like people. They hate us not because of anything we've done, but because the Hitler's among them need a target for hate, and we are convenient.

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