Halx

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v343737c6dfyCb8?confirmed=1

from Pen and Teller

There are boobs near the end, so just be warned. Not to mention a billion instances of "Fuck" and "Shit"

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Astrocloud

I saw this on Showtime. I was pretty unconvinced because they downplayed certain facts and stressed others.

For instance -they never even mention that most Walmart employees are part time by design. They hire part time workers so that they don't have to pay for benefits like health insurance.

Then there's this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in533818.shtml

I still shop there. I just think that shopping there doesn't go without a bit of guilt. To deny this is "BullShit!"

ratbastid

Easy for you to say, Hal: WalMart just announced that they're giving up on ever having any stores in New York City. Those of us in the Heartland are still living with the scourge that is WalMart.

Dilbert1234567

I've got to recuse my self from this one, i love walmart, I've owned shares since the 90's. it's been one of my better investments.

__________________
Donate Blood!

"Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

Halx

Hey hey hey.. I haven't *said* anything. I remain without opinion. I've seen WalMart in many different contexts: suburbia, rural, urban... I'm not a WalMart shopper, though. I am a specialty shopper and I buy exactly what I want, not just what's on sale or what is in the store down the street. I could give a shit about WalMart if it weren't for the fact that so many people hate them, yet they are the epitome of capitalism.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

SecretMethod70

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

Frontline did an entire episode on Wal-Mart which was quite enlightening. It's available to watch online for free through the above link.

I'm not going to say I'd never shop at Wal-Mart. I do it occasionally. But there are certainly issues with how they run their business - enough that I'll consider shopping elsewhere before Wal-Mart.

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

jorgelito

Well maybe you should have posted your opinion, what you think instead of just a link. Usually the trigger-happy mods close these types of threads....

MechCow

This post violates rule L

L. Just posting a link is not a satisfactory post.

Please see http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=45061

This looks like an interesting video I will watch perhaps sometime tonight, but I don't feel comfortable with you violating your own rules.

SecretMethod70

Hey there You seem to be new to TFP - and *thank you* for taking the time to read some of the stickies. The Found on the Net forum is a bit different from other forums and is designed for posts like this. If you take a look at the rules sticky in this forum, it says (among other things):I hope that clears things up for you

__________________
Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

ProfessorMayhem

The only thing that annoys me about Wal-Mart is the fact that one of their super centers created the world's slowest intersection right outside my neighborhood. There are times when it literally adds 20-30 minutes to your drive. They built the thing so damn big that it needed its own dedicated road branching from the main intersection.

braisler

I enjoyed seeing someone take the other side of the issue. It is so in vogue to hate Wal-mart. But it does give people jobs and it does give people low prices. I've always held the attitude that you don't have to shop there if you don't want to. It's just like watching TV and something comes on that you don't approve of... just change the channel, don't bitch about it.

Speaking of approving... kudos for the completely unneccesary use of breasts in the segment, P&T! Now that's gratuitous!

__________________
---
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
---

Halx

Funny. I think I created this forum to just dump links in without conversation. Now people are getting on me.. yeesh. I trained you guys a little too well.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

mx5me

First, Walmart does not have the lowest prices on everything in town. They have a documented tactic of luring customers in with low prices on some items, and then filling shelves with items priced comparably to the competition. They have created an image of rock bottom prices, but that's not always the case.

Then there are the (lack of) ethics in what Walmart does. I do not mean to imply they're alone in this, but they're pioneering in these business methods.

I would agree with the "if you don't like it, don't shop there" attitude, except big box stores like Wally World do affect us all. Besides running mom and pop stores out of business, they also drive industry out of this country. Jobs disappear, quality products disappear. Furthermore (and maybe to save the best for last?), stores like Walmart get money from the government directly and indirectly, which means they're taking money from us taxpayers. A large percentage of their employees are on welfare because of poor wages and insufficient health care options. So, we help Walmart make gobs of money while they crush this country's economy.

The_Jazz

mx5me, can you clarify your last paragraph? Are you saying that Wal-Mart doesn't sell quality products? Or that imported products are inherently inferior?

Sorry, just confused.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

mx5me

They put such a price squeeze on their suppliers that the suppliers have to cut corners to keep Walmart's business. It becomes a function of how little the suppliers can invest in production, not where the goods come from. There's a documentary out there called "The High Cost of Low Prices" that does a nice job summing this up. I also second the PBS Frontline bit.

jorgelito

Ha, fair enough, I didn't see that this forum was ok for links and stuff. But think of this way. Our diligence is kind of like a check-and-balance and at least keeps you on your toes a bit.

The_Jazz

OK, but I don't see how it necessarily follows that the quality of the goods sold is less than something that I buy at Target, for instance. When I've had Kirkland brand food (which I think is the Wal-Mart private label) it's been as good and in some cases better than name brands.

I think that I also need to point out that suppliers and manufacturers fill very different rolls. The supplier, at least theoretically, should not affect the quality of goods in their possession at all. There are exceptions to that rule aplenty, but it's basically sound.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cynthetiq

to quote the guy from "High Cost"

that's ALL companies... if you think that it's any different I suggest you check out other businesses including ALL Fortune 500 companies, because because ALL companies want to save on ALL line items from cost of producing goods to cost of retailing them.

Really? You get to work when you feel like it? You get to demand what your wages should be?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

abaya

Just have to say that Kirkland brand is from Costco, not Walmart, and is miles above the quality of Walmart's stuff in general.

I am a big fan of generic brands, especially Costco (Kirkland) and REI... but not Walmart, or anything they carry, because of what it takes to get that item on their shelf with a low price. It's just not worth it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

Sorry, my bad. You're right that Kirkland is Costco. I know better than that.

However, I've also bought private label food from Sam's Club when I was a member there, and it was also good.

I can agree with not shopping at Wal-Mart because of the destruction of family businesses and/or the wages/health benefits issue, but saying that they pick on their suppliers just doesn't hold water. I have intimate knowledge of several of their suppliers, and those folks are all independent and can walk away from their contracts if they chose to. However, that's going to hit their bottom line, and I refuse to feel sorry for a corporation in a business relationship.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

roachboy

first off, i think that penn and teller are great magicians. as hosts of this dimwitted show "bullshit" penn and teller are still great magicians. sometimes i like to think that the show is itself a prank, and stuff like the opening sequence of the clip is fodder for that theory. but if they aren't joking, then they lost me in the first 30 seconds, at the point the writers decided that what they were after in this segment was "walmart hatred"....

i detest walmart. but they are in the position they are today for a variety of reasons--the center of their operation is the kind of integrated logistical system they have developed--which is kinda like the ford motor company (from the 1910-1920s) of this mode of operation--a continuous system every aspect of which is automated to the greatest possible extent with extremely tight controls at every step of the operation. their supply chain is extremely capital intensive, which in itself puts them at an advantage. they are at one level an example of the extent to which the kinda famous paper on globalizatino done by the boston consulting group was correct: in this context, a real advantage goes to the supply chain that is in place first. alot of the problems that walmart generates for itself, its workers, its suppliers and *their* workers also follow directly from the way this system operates.
any automation is double-edged--it is about efficiency understood as an abstraction and so is about deskilling work, reducing the value of labor, atomizing the workforce and imposing the lowest possible wages. walmart itself does this to its own workforce--and extends this into very militant anti-union policies. i find anti-union companies repellent--even as i am not a fan of the old american model of trade union organization--but the idea that workers should be prevented from organizing is repellent to me. even if there were no other problems with walmart, and no matter how cheap the shit you can buy there, i would not shop there on the basis of their anti-union policies alone. by extension, if you do shop there, you are de facto endorsing these politics.

these problems are self-evident if you do ANY actual research into walmart's labor practices--and watching a bullshit episode of bullshit is not research--it is infotainment. but hey, maybe it doesn't matter to you.

and this is but one area: the problems walmart creates for itself relative to its own workforce are in force in spades when it comes to the implications of its pricing structures on suppliers---their supplychain is huge and so encompasses a wide range of conditions, of firms operating in different legal and political contexts, so it is hard to say one thing that obtains universally within a supply chain of this size--but what one can say is that walmart treats repressive political environments and antiquated labor law as part of a competitive advantage and routinely ignores the consequences. other firms on the order of nike have been forced---and i mean forced--by political pressure to try to address these problems (exploitative labor practices, abuse of workers, forced unpaid overtime, appalling working conditions, ridiculously low wages, etc.)--in their 2004 corporate social responsiblity audit, nike claimed to have hired a team of "experts" from mit to investigate the "mysterious" connection between their pricing structures and abusive practices amongst suppliers--walmart has delat with this by trying to not release information. but it is routinely acknowledged that walmart suppliers are among the worst in some sectors--and their pricing is the driver of it.

but hey cheap shit is cheap shit, eh? and it would be a very american attitude to focus entirely on the shortest possible term and not think too much about what it means.

i could go on and on about walmart.
i'd rather pay more for sustainably produced goods. period.
but i live in a city and these options are readily available.
it must suck to live out there in the american hinterland, in one of the many areas where alternatives have been squeezed out of existence by walmart's predatory store location practices.
then you have to rationalize having no meaningful choice in the matter.
but you do get alot of cheap shit. much of which would remain almost out of reach for you if you were living on walmart wages. but dont beleive me: do some research.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

illusionhill

Love or hate Walmart but this is capitalism. They have taken the rules and laws that are established and run with them. I do not think Walmart is wrong but the entire system. Yeah its fun to hate the number one whatever but they are just a representative to a bigger problem.

__________________
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But i forgot my pen