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TFPJim · 01-21-2004, 02:34 PM

It is a standard response to say that Palestinians want to destroy Israel. Of course there are some hard liners who wish this was the case, but they do not speak for the ordinary Palestinians.

There are also many Israelis who do not agree with the current brutal treatment being meted out to the Palestinians, who feel that it will do nothing to forward the move to an eventual peaceful settlement with the Palestinians. This is evidenced by the growing number of 'refuseniks'. These are Israeli soldiers who have refused to serve as soldiers in the Occupied Territories for the Israeli Defence Force, as they feel it is completely immoral and will not help anyone. Five of these men have now been jailed for a year for taking a conscientious stance against their superiors.

These two excellent articles are proof if proof were needed that something needs to be resolved to stop what is happening in Israel.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4840
http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/...astructure.cfm

This article is a letter from Eitan Ronel, a former Lieutenant Colonel who has returned his rank to the Israeli Army Chief of Staff in a public letter, saying "A state whose army breaks up civilian demonstrations with live fire is not a democratic state. An army that educates its soldiers that it is possible to contemplate such a crime has lost [sight of its] limits…
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4817

Recently 22 year old International Solidarity Movement activist Tom Hurndall died after being shot by an IDF soldier in April 2003. He had been in a coma since then, and died on January 13th. A press release from Tom's family (http://www.tomhurndall.co.uk/) notes that the soldier was sniping using a telescopic sight and hit Tom in the forehead, suggesting that a charge of attempted murder would be more appropriate than a charge of aggravated assault.

I think that it is wrong to kill civilians wherever they are - by being pro Palestinian does not mean I agree with the concept of suicide bombing.

I feel that Sharon's response to the Palestinians mirrors Bush's war on Terror. When something awful happens, like 9/11 or a suicide bombing, there is no effort made on behalf of Bush or Sharon to try to understand what may be causing people to do take such drastic actions. Instead they react to violence with harsher, more overwhelming violence, which only worsens the very conditions which caused those who carried out their suicide bombings in the first place.

I really can't imagine life for those in the Occupied Territories. If I had seen my brothers, friends, relatives being routinely killed and humiliated, if my every journey was a trial, if the civil and administrative infrastructure which surrounded me had been systematically gunned, bulldozed, shot at, destroyed I would feel cut adrift, hopeless, angry, and if I had no work, and could not move around freely, and I saw no hope in life, I cannot really imagine how I would feel. What about you?

It is interesting that often when the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is raised that people often complain that the Palestinians have rejected offers from Isreal to trade back land. The last time this occurred, via Barak's 'generous' offer, people felt the Palestinians were wanting to have their cake and eat it, and that they were foolhardy to reject it. This article on the veteran Israeli peace activist Uri Avenery's site Gush Shalom gives some information that may help us understand why the Palestinians were not so keen to sign on the dotted line:
http://www.gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.html

How strange, that during periods when only Palestinians are killed, that the world looks on and calls such times 'periods of calm'? Again, read this article http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4840 and ask yourself if the Palestinians would be afforded such nonchalance from the global community while they tried to do the same to Israeli towns. How can it be that such horrific, unbridled violence can be meted out against the Palestinians with barely a mention on the mainstream news?

01-21-2004, 02:34 PM	#35 (permalink)
TFPJim Upright	It is a standard response to say that Palestinians want to destroy Israel. Of course there are some hard liners who wish this was the case, but they do not speak for the ordinary Palestinians. There are also many Israelis who do not agree with the current brutal treatment being meted out to the Palestinians, who feel that it will do nothing to forward the move to an eventual peaceful settlement with the Palestinians. This is evidenced by the growing number of 'refuseniks'. These are Israeli soldiers who have refused to serve as soldiers in the Occupied Territories for the Israeli Defence Force, as they feel it is completely immoral and will not help anyone. Five of these men have now been jailed for a year for taking a conscientious stance against their superiors. These two excellent articles are proof if proof were needed that something needs to be resolved to stop what is happening in Israel. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4840 http://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/...astructure.cfm This article is a letter from Eitan Ronel, a former Lieutenant Colonel who has returned his rank to the Israeli Army Chief of Staff in a public letter, saying "A state whose army breaks up civilian demonstrations with live fire is not a democratic state. An army that educates its soldiers that it is possible to contemplate such a crime has lost [sight of its] limits… http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4817 Recently 22 year old International Solidarity Movement activist Tom Hurndall died after being shot by an IDF soldier in April 2003. He had been in a coma since then, and died on January 13th. A press release from Tom's family (http://www.tomhurndall.co.uk/) notes that the soldier was sniping using a telescopic sight and hit Tom in the forehead, suggesting that a charge of attempted murder would be more appropriate than a charge of aggravated assault. I think that it is wrong to kill civilians wherever they are - by being pro Palestinian does not mean I agree with the concept of suicide bombing. I feel that Sharon's response to the Palestinians mirrors Bush's war on Terror. When something awful happens, like 9/11 or a suicide bombing, there is no effort made on behalf of Bush or Sharon to try to understand what may be causing people to do take such drastic actions. Instead they react to violence with harsher, more overwhelming violence, which only worsens the very conditions which caused those who carried out their suicide bombings in the first place. I really can't imagine life for those in the Occupied Territories. If I had seen my brothers, friends, relatives being routinely killed and humiliated, if my every journey was a trial, if the civil and administrative infrastructure which surrounded me had been systematically gunned, bulldozed, shot at, destroyed I would feel cut adrift, hopeless, angry, and if I had no work, and could not move around freely, and I saw no hope in life, I cannot really imagine how I would feel. What about you? It is interesting that often when the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is raised that people often complain that the Palestinians have rejected offers from Isreal to trade back land. The last time this occurred, via Barak's 'generous' offer, people felt the Palestinians were wanting to have their cake and eat it, and that they were foolhardy to reject it. This article on the veteran Israeli peace activist Uri Avenery's site Gush Shalom gives some information that may help us understand why the Palestinians were not so keen to sign on the dotted line: http://www.gush-shalom.org/generous/generous.html How strange, that during periods when only Palestinians are killed, that the world looks on and calls such times 'periods of calm'? Again, read this article http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...22&ItemID=4840 and ask yourself if the Palestinians would be afforded such nonchalance from the global community while they tried to do the same to Israeli towns. How can it be that such horrific, unbridled violence can be meted out against the Palestinians with barely a mention on the mainstream news?