Sorry about the off topic, but this is an interesting topic in itself.
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Originally posted by JumpinJesus
Ustwo, as an educator, I find your generalization of a profession that assisted you in your career endeavors highly offensive. I wish to respond with two points that would logically follow your statement:
1. I am safe to assume that most doctors are sucking off the pharmaceutical tit and don't give a damn about their patients as long as the kickbacks continue.
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I hear this is true for some physicians, I am NOT a physician and for that matter never bothered to get a DEA number since in my line of work I never need to give anything stronger then an anti-biotic, and that’s very rare. (10 points if you can guess what I do )
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2. Doctors are educated by teachers. If the educators are horrible, the doctors who were educated by them are horrible doctors.
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Ironically my teachers from the med school tended to be the worst of the lot. Almost ALL of it was self taught. They give you an exam, you put on it what you learned in the books. Often the exam was a repeat for the last several years. I lost a LOT of faith in our medical system once I learned just how messed up it was at the education end. There were 2 exceptions to this, and they were very good educators, the rest just lectured, some couldn't even manage that, one showed up drunk.
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I recall reading in another post that you dislike generalizations and labels. Why, then, do you use them against others.
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Wrong. I posted I see no problem with accurate labels and generalizations.
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I take great pride in what I do and believe the saying, "those who can't do, teach" is a highly unfair evaluation of a group of people who dedicate their lives hoping that those behind them succeed. Within every profession are those who give it a bad name, but somehow we have found a passion in bashing those who helped get us to those professions.
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In the sciences, teaching is a burden placed on researchers and TA's who would rather be doing something else. Many who fail at private practice end up teaching as well as those who wish to look important. "Oh the Dr. isn't in on Thursdays, he is teaching at the university."
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Most people who go to great lengths to point out the faults in the educational system have never spent time in front of a classroom doing what we do. The educational system is highly politicized and most faults that are found can be traced to that politicization. I wish it were otherwise, but it isn't.
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I've done my share of teaching, and enjoyed it, but the beurocracy, inefficiency and low pay far overcame any enjoyment of teaching. I do think teachers are not paid enough, but that doesn't mean the current ones are worth more.
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Since you have taken an interest in my career, let me give you a glimpse into the day-to-day workings of what I deal with.
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Deleted for length....
I'm sorry your kids are poor and messed up. We could give the schools more money and they would still be poor and messed up. Perhaps they need a voucher so they can go to a better school, let me give you some local info...
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Chicago Catholic Schools graduate 98% of their students as compared to 68% of Chicago Public Schools students. On standardized tests Chicago Catholic Schools students score substantially higher than their public schools counterparts. In short, the quality of education is much higher at private schools in the city of Chicago as opposed to public schools.
Further, the cost per student is substantially lower. The total expenditures divided by the total students brings a cost of about $10,500/student in Chicago Public Schools, as opposed to $7,800/student for Chicago Catholic secondardy schools (8-12). The cost for elementary students in Chicago Catholic Schools is $2900/student, substantially lower than the equivalent cost in the public school district.
As if that weren't enough, the cost per student is even lower than that for parents, as a portion of the cost per student is funded by the Archdiocese of Chicago, the schools themselves raise about $37 million through various fundraisers, and additional money is often available through grants and scholarships. In fact, the average total tuition that parents are charged to send their children to Catholic schools in Chicago is $2,207 for elementary students and $5,774 for secondary students.
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I'm all for giving money for special needs students and the like, but how much cash do we put into this government money pit before we say 'you have enough'.
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Many educators remain in the field despite the treatment they receive in the context of the comments similar to yours. Many that stay are damn good at what they do and sincerely care about their students. Some stay because of the summer vacations. None stay because of the pay. Many, however, are driven away into other professions. Unfortunately, many of the ones who leave are the ones we most need in our field. But with public attitudes like the one you have displayed, they see no reason to.
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Perhaps if the teachers unions were not based around job protection at the expense of quality teachers you would see me care a bit more. I like the MN plan, 100k a year but no unions. I do think teachers don't get paid enough, and I'll be happy to have them paid more once their job performance matters directly to them. Testing is a start, but there are flaws, I agree with that, but god help you if you try to say that your students don't perform well because they are from poor families and are 'low achievers' (PC talk for stupid).