Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Between communism, socialism, and democracy: China and political reform

Baraka_Guru · 10-17-2010, 09:30 AM

There have been some interesting responses.

I think I see two extremes that don't seem to jive with my view of China. On the one hand, I don't think the people of China are quite as oppressed or objectified as Cimarron suggests. Though he didn't go enough into detail. There is a lot of crazy shit that goes on, but it's nothing like North Korea. On the other hand, as far as ace's responses are concerned, I don't think American class stratification is nearly as oppressive as Chinese communist politics. Bear in mind that Chinese class stratification is likely far worse than in America.

So what you have in China is a somewhat oppressive communist government, in addition to class stratification based on the changes under economic reform. You have the urban filthy rich, and you have the rural destitute. The thing about China is that it isn't a communist nation. Communism implies complete government control over economy and capital flows. China is a mixed economy. What remains largely communist is its political structure, rather than its economic structure.

What you have is an undemocratic political system. You can vote for whoever you want so long as it's a local council election and it's for a member of the Communist Party of China or its allies. All other elections are done indirectly via your council representatives. They essentially vote for your provincial and national leaders for you.

And of course there's that little problem of not being able to criticize the government. The situation politically is that of a one-party state. But there are concerns over the lack of democracy and freedom of speech, hence the rift happening at top levels.

Despite the way the American government controls information, it is a bit futile to compare it to China in terms of openness, fairness, and balance. There is no comparison. Sure there have been oppressive actions carried out by the American government, but haven't these been cases where "national security" was an issue.

In China, most (if not all) criticisms are considered a case of national security. They arrest people, they prosecute people, they torture people. This despite a constitution saying the people have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

Chinese politics is dysfunctional on a level that would drive most Americans out of their minds.

10-17-2010, 09:30 AM	#12 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	There have been some interesting responses. I think I see two extremes that don't seem to jive with my view of China. On the one hand, I don't think the people of China are quite as oppressed or objectified as Cimarron suggests. Though he didn't go enough into detail. There is a lot of crazy shit that goes on, but it's nothing like North Korea. On the other hand, as far as ace's responses are concerned, I don't think American class stratification is nearly as oppressive as Chinese communist politics. Bear in mind that Chinese class stratification is likely far worse than in America. So what you have in China is a somewhat oppressive communist government, in addition to class stratification based on the changes under economic reform. You have the urban filthy rich, and you have the rural destitute. The thing about China is that it isn't a communist nation. Communism implies complete government control over economy and capital flows. China is a mixed economy. What remains largely communist is its political structure, rather than its economic structure. What you have is an undemocratic political system. You can vote for whoever you want so long as it's a local council election and it's for a member of the Communist Party of China or its allies. All other elections are done indirectly via your council representatives. They essentially vote for your provincial and national leaders for you. And of course there's that little problem of not being able to criticize the government. The situation politically is that of a one-party state. But there are concerns over the lack of democracy and freedom of speech, hence the rift happening at top levels. Despite the way the American government controls information, it is a bit futile to compare it to China in terms of openness, fairness, and balance. There is no comparison. Sure there have been oppressive actions carried out by the American government, but haven't these been cases where "national security" was an issue. In China, most (if not all) criticisms are considered a case of national security. They arrest people, they prosecute people, they torture people. This despite a constitution saying the people have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Chinese politics is dysfunctional on a level that would drive most Americans out of their minds. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot Last edited by Baraka_Guru; 10-17-2010 at 09:35 AM..