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Old 07-21-2010, 08:35 AM   #16 (permalink)
LordEden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
This comes up a lot. Everyone likes Tyrion. I'll argue that one reason for this is that Martin gives him what are by far the best lines in the book, and I'm guessing it will remain the case in proceeding books. But what else is it about him? What is compelling? On the surface, he's ugly, and in outward actions, he's unsavoury. But why do we like him? How does Martin create this character of questionable values into someone with whom we sympathize if not root for? (This question is for everyone, really....)
Spindles got it right, he is the underdog. I think he is most complex of characters in GRRM's books. He can show love and compassion to someone then call for the torture/death of those around him (who threaten his family/kingdom in which he has a strange love/hate relationship with). He sees the world through a dwarf's eyes and that causes him to deal with situations that no one in this world has to deal with. He can only find solace in whores and other cripples/bastards, but he can love. His hate is cold and meticulous, not the rage of fire that others hold. He keeps it inside him and wields it like a scalpel. He does things that surprise me to no end (Again, references other books that I can't get into). Tyrion and Jamie are my two favorite characters in the whole series because of who they are in this book and what they become by the 4th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
What is it about her? What makes her such a great villain? Why do you hate her?
As Cinn said, alot of her "villainy" comes out later in the books but is clear she is out for her own gains. She is not just ambitious that she wants the best for her and her children, she wants it ALL. She cares nothing about those around her and will mercilessly devour anyone who gets in her way. She knows how beautiful she is and will use it in a heartbeat if it furthers her advancement in life. She wants power and she will do anything (Fuck/steal/kill) in order to gain it for herself. She will do all of this with a smile on her face and not a moment's regret. She cares nothing about anyone but kids (even sometimes I feel that they are just there because of their ties to the throne). Even the love she feels for Jamie is twisted to the point of insanity (besides being twins and the incest). She is just deep down and evil person, not caring or compassionate in the least. She believes, deep down in her soul, that the world has fucked her over and she wants to get even with everyone around her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
I think this is crucial to Martin's work, this idea of moral ambiguity. There are no heroes, there really aren't any villains in the classic sense. There are merely allies and enemies, just like in the real world. And even "the good guys" must make choices that are morally questionable. This is a bit of a deviation from, say, the work of Tolkien, where the lines between good and evil are usually clearly defined.
I read a quote somewhere that stuck with me for years and I believe it applies here. "Honor isn't about making the right choices, it's about dealing with the consequences."

*****

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian View Post
Bluntly, I've found both Varys and Littlefinger to be rather inscrutable. What either one is driving at is completely beyond me.
Varys I could do without but Littlefinger is in my top 5 characters. He's smart, ruthless, and (which is surprising) honest (in part) to those around him. The way he handled Edward was key, he told him from the beginning how to act around the council, but stark only listened to half of what he said. He told him not to trust him (Many times over), yet stark thought he was joking. His back-story is only partially fleshed out here, but he really gained the power he wields through political and financial intelligence. He knows who controls what, how to make money when there is no money to be made, and how to keep those around him fighting shadows. He knows what he wants and gains so much, without lifting a sword. I love it.
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Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
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Last edited by LordEden; 07-21-2010 at 08:51 AM..
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