Thread: Destiny?
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
levite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynosure View Post
Why should chaos be a requirement? Can you not imagine a perfect universe where chaos is not necessary? Randomness would still be desirable, however.

For example, one can design and program a computer application, such as a simulation or a game, with elements of randomness in it, but one would never want chaos in that application. Chaos in a computer application would be considered to be poorly conceived algorithms or sloppily written code, or to be outright errors, i.e. "bugs". Randomness in a simulation or a game stimulates, challenges and pleases the end users. Chaos pisses them off and makes them not want to use that application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by optik_nerve View Post
Agreed. It's that equal balance of order and disorder. This brings me to this idea. What if what we call "chaos" and observe chaos as, is just a great deal of order that we can't possibly understand or even begin to comprehend. Therefore our, and I use this term loosely, "ignorance" is put off to the theory of chaos because we don't see it for what it is meant to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynosure View Post
How do we know there is any kind of balance of chaos and order, in the universe? And what (if not who) is responsible for or even capable of maintaining that balance?
I'm not sure you can have true randomness without a certain kind of chaos resulting. Maybe the problem we're confronting here is semantic: when I say chaos, I mean randomness or unpredictability that can sometimes result in negative consequences for living beings, and occasionally will result in positive consequences for living beings. To me, "randomness" is a neutral word, implying neutral results. Chaos to me is essentially the same phenomenon, but with an acknowledgment of danger or risk.

In other words, God, being omnipotent, could design a universe that evolves sentient beings (evolution requiring elements of randomness) without there being unpleasant consequences of entropic degradation or other natural phenomena-- i.e., the breakdown of living systems with age, illness, violent predation, etc.-- but He didn't: rather we got our universe, where randomness sometimes has teeth. I presume He did so because there was a good reason, of which I admit I am ignorant. That would be where the "faith" part of faith comes in.

In the sense of chaos you are apparently meaning: sloppy design, poor execution, unreliable systems, etc., I am not sure I think such is part of our universe at all; so I might well be in agreement with you there, Cynosure.

As to the notion of randomness/chaos being "in the eye of the beholder," that the order is there, we just lack the perspective to see it, I am perfectly willing to entertain the possibility. I am just not sure we can attain the perspective to see it accurately while still living within this plane of existence. And that being the case, it makes little functional difference to me whether the randomness in the universe is truly random or merely appears to be random.

But I do believe there is a certain balance to the universe. In many ways, and about many things, one among them being chaos and order. If there were no balance at all, there would be no order. Chaos would overwhelm everything. Or if it were balanced too far in the opposite direction, the universe would be so ordered it would be static, and life as we know it would be impossible. To some degree, I think Nature-- that is, the universe itself as it was designed to function by God-- keeps the balance itself, seeking equilibrium. To some degree, I think God steps in from time to time and adjusts the balance-- that would be the purpose of revelations, I suppose. And to some degree, the balance is still imperfect: we ourselves must work to rebalance it at an equilibrium. That is part of what we are here to do. In Judaism, we refer to this idea as tikkun olam, the responsibility of people to heal, repair, and set right the universe.
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