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Originally Posted by robot_parade
There are? How many of them don't use vitamin supplements (including things like fortified soy milk)? How many people have gone from birth to death without food from any animal sources or vitamin supplements?
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I'm guessing there are few who do not use any sort of supplementation, but you'd be greatly challenged to find Western omnivores who don't supplement either. Supplements are found on varying levels in the food chain, as regulated by the government.
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Note that I said 'natural' - and to me, vitamin supplements don't count as natural.
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I know what you mean. But what is natural? It can be argued that eating meat isn't natural because we can have a tough time at doing it. But that's not to say we can't, or can't thrive on it. Many vegans eat a far more natural diet than most people because a large proportion of their diet consists of food as grown as opposed to refined or processed food. This is because much of the latter contains animal products.
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Sure, you can thrive as a vegan, if you supplement your diet (B12 is the big one, IIRC). And that's fine. I was specifically arguing against those that claim that veganism is somehow more 'natural' than other dietary choices. I don't have any problem with people choosing veganism (except for those few like the ones described in the OP)
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Everyone supplements with B12. As mentioned earlier, B12 originates as a bacteria in soil. Animals eat this and, in turn, we eat them. We can get B12 from vegetables and grains, etc, but only if we don't wash them to a pristine condition. This is unpractical and undesirable because of pesticides and other concerns. In Canada and other nations, folic acid is now added to all flour. This is a supplement to curve the instances of birth defects. Our milk has added vitamin A, vitamin D, and calcium (yes, calcium!). Did you know you can get all of these from natural and plant sources? Why do consumers of dairy need these supplements? Probably because of poor dietary choices. Vegans don't need to worry so much about these because of the plant foods they eat, though soy milk supplementation is a bit of insurance. Note: Most vegans and non-vegans consume supplements extensively.
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Yes, absolutely. Again, I wasn't trying to say veganism isn't a valid choice. But it is a conscious choice, not somehow inherently better (or worse, in most cases) than other choices.
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I agree. Though there is something to be said about the disparity between vegan and meat/dairy-heavy diets. Studies have shown that vegans have markedly lower instances of heart disease and certain cancers. This is why heavy meat and dairy consumers should work better to incorporate more non-meat and non-dairy foods into their diets. How many people do you know get the 6 to 10 servings of fruits and vegetables a day? How many do you know choose a variety of nuts and legumes when eating protein-rich foods (as opposed to meat)?
There is no one perfect diet. There is only balance and an understanding of nutrition and its effects. But I will say veganism is a much better choice than many of the eating habits we see in the West.