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Originally Posted by Fotzlid
My biggest gripe with them is they make it easy for lazy/unproductive workers to remain on the job. In fact, they foster laziness by protecting those workers.
IMO, the only people that make out with unions are the people that run them.
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I have a problem with this too. How do we fix it? This is one of the reasons I'm not in a union shop right now. I work hard and when someone next to me is lazing around for the same, sometimes greater pay, it makes me jealous.
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Originally Posted by Daniel_
workers refusing to hold a ladder while I changed a light bulb in my office because that was an electrician's job
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Yup, another example of idiocy. Fact is, replacing lamps is an easy task and not one that needs to be unionized. Instances like this make me think the union mentality has gone too far.
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Originally Posted by Martian
Thus they collect dues from as many groups as possible but do their best to avoid any costly disputes - hence the saying in the warehouse I worked in that 'the union rep will always stand behind you - except when you need him.'
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Fortunately, I have never been victimized like this. My union reps and stewards have always gone to bat for me when I needed them personally. It's definitely a reason I feel the way I do right now.
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Originally Posted by Martian
I also find your whole concept of only buying goods produced by unionised labour to be rather strange. What about industries where unionisation is impractical or unnecessary? And what precisely is the political statement that you're making here?
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By buying union made products, I have faith that the workers producing them are not exploited. Note I say faith, not belief. I have no real way of verifying these people have adequate working conditions and are paid a living wage so I resort to "Union Made" as a catch-all. This whole thing started when I watched those movies about Wal-Mart when I was union and started researching just what a sweatshop is. I can't support businesses that oppress workers any longer. I've been known to find the "Made in China" label on items my wife and I are discussing while in a store and categorically saying, "Nope, we're not going to buy that!" Yeah, it pisses her off.
I can't think of a single industry that could not be unionized besides the craft sorts where sole proprietorship reigns supreme. As a matter of fact my wedding ring was produced by an artisan working on her own in her garage. Hell, that's better than union! Unfortunately I lost that ring. It was a real bummer, I loved that thing.
The socks that prompted this post are Union Made in the USA. I was frankly amazed any socks were produced in the US in this day and age.
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Originally Posted by namako
This isnt to say we live in employment paradise, but it could be so much worse. As Ive said before, remember that many of our grandfathers and great-grandfathers lost their lives in forming unions. Reagan did much more when he broke unions than saving people dues. He began an erosion of safety, integrity, and so forth.
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This is my main reason for supporting unions in the US. There are a lot of problems and I personally believe that if they don't get their act together they will die. Workers are turning against them for reasons such as those listed in this thread (and I'm sure we'll have more examples), corporations don't see the union as a viable workforce due to situations like the UAW. Unions must adapt or die. I'm not savvy enough to "fix" them myself and am at a loss for something to do about it.
The most high profile example of union-busting gone awry that affects everyone in this country is the air traffic controllers strike. Sure, the system ran along fine for a couple decades but now it's a shambles and everyones safety is at risk. There are multiple instances of overworked fatigued controllers making mistakes. Recently there was an incident caused because a controller had to leave his station so he didn't shit himself. Instead of the two controllers in the tower there was only one and he had been there for 5 or 6 hours without a break. Controllers are retiring in droves and there aren't enough young recruits to replace them. Who would for $12/hr? On another note I would be proud to be an ATC but they won't take me. I'm too old.
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Originally Posted by Mister Coaster
Unions have their time and place. In the days of the robber barrons, they certianly paved the way for fair treatment of workers. But, to say that unions are the only thing that could have achieved this is silly. If labor had not unionized back in the day, would workers in the US 2008 be the same slaves of the 19th century? Would minors be working? Would wages be below the poverty line? Of course not. Things balance themselves out, the industrial revolution swung the pendulum in favor of management, the pendulum would have eventually swung back.
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I disagree. Look at the horrible corporation Wal-Mart. They go so far as to require their employees to use public health care to improve the bottom line. It's required because Wal-Mart doesn't provide a health plan and the majority of it's workers can barely afford rent, let alone health care. This is not how one of the countries largest employers should behave. Without unions in the past I believe EVERY corporation would operate like this. Without unions what exactly would have stopped the robber barons? The only way to do it is to band together and collectively bargain.
I love the rest of your post and it describes succinctly what is wrong with unions in America today. I want my rep and my steward to make more money than me but why should they be paid what appears to be a CEO level income? That makes no sense.
I disagree with your last statement, unions don't need to be killed off they need to evolve and change to fit todays workplace. Without strong unions in the first world people in developing nations are going to have a much tougher time of it. We need to be leaders for the world in this regard.
ngdawg, I have a serious problem with the teachers union in this country today. They are setting education policy against the wishes of intelligent parents and politicians. Tenure is a concept I can't really get my head around. "Because I've been here so long you can't fire me." Uhhh, what? This subject could become a whole different thread.
I've never worked in a mixed union shop and have no idea what it's like. Sounds horrible for everyone involved.
thingstodo, I would rephrase it and say the UAW has already killed the big two . Chrysler was the first obvious casualty. Expect the other two to fall soon.