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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
A couple of things here.
1.) I don't understand your "This girl shows no remorse" remark. On numerous occassions she states how she didn't-- And doesn't-- Want to hurt Shauk, signaling she has at least a bit of remorse for what she's done.
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Neither do I, as that's not what I said. She
is showing remorse. What she isn't showing is any understanding or self-control.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
2.) I said this earlier, but there's no better way to work out conflicts then to talk about them. But that's virtually impossible when one person doesn't wish to listen to what the other has to say, or comes off as stand-off'ish ("What the fuck is this for?" and "Fine" display an unwillingness to talk).
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Again, this is true of healthy relationships. I'm normally at the front of the line advocating communication, but sometimes it's better to just cut your losses. This situation shows every indication of being one of those times.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
3.) I doubt this girl is a loose cannon. I've known loose cannons and she doesn't seem to fit the bill. If anything, she seems to be going through a bit of a transition in trying to figure out what she wants in life. You can't exactly hold that against her, can you? Personally, I wouldn't. A person can't change if you don't let them change.
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I will never fault anyone for taking steps to be the person they want to be. I will fault someone for not trying to make the changes necessary in their life, particularly if their current actions are harming both themselves and those around them. This is not a case of self-discovery and it's not a situation where she's changing her ways for the better. She hasn't shown any signs of even wanting to do so. Being involved with a person like this is not a good idea.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
It appears to me that Shauk is getting a free pass simply because he's known around TFP... No one said he doesn't have a right to be angry. Being angry, however, doesn't justify being beligerent. If I so wanted, I could confront my ex and call her a two-timing, cheating, bonafide whore and I'd be 100% right. But what would that accomplish? Aside from possibly pissing her off and causing an otherwise unecessary argument, nothing (I should know). Hurt feelings shouldn't be an excuse for overt abrasiveness. If they were, then conflicts would never be resolved. Constructive communication is always better than destructive communication. I'd be willing to bet that if both parties were willing to sit down and talk to each other without the finger pointing and accusations that things would, if nothing else, be a lot less stressful.
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I most certainly am not giving Shauk a free pass. Why should I? I know hardly anything about him; even if I did, that's just not the way I operate. What I'm doing is attempting for a bit of empathy; not with him, but with her. By using what's been described I try to put myself in her shoes and figure out why she's acting the way she's acting; assuming Shauk hasn't grossly misrepresented the situation, I feel confident in saying I have a pretty good handle on how she's feeling, which is why I feel confident in in giving the advice I have.
I don't want to vilify this poor girl. I don't think she's evil. In fact, I feel quite a bit of pity for her, as I think she's got a hard road ahead of her and there's nobody and nothing that can change that. I sincerely hope for her own sake that she will eventually be able to figure out that her problems are all a result of the way she's acting and therefore be able to change the pattern, but I don't know that I'd be terribly optimistic about that.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Well, for one, I never mentioned anything about overnight change. If you re-read what I typed out, you'd notice that I said it's entirely possible that she doesn't like the person she's become/wants to work the relationship out. You'd be surprised at how many people have an 'epiphany', as you want to call it, overnight. I have, I'm sure you have and I'm sure a lot of people reading this thread have. But, really, there's no use in trying to qualify other people's experiences.
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I won't argue that she's happy with who she is, because it's pretty clear that she's not. The part I disagree with is her wanting to work the relationship out. What she wants is to use the relationship as a life preserver, to try to cling to what she had. This is not possible, and further means that Shauk really should get gone; again, it's not him she wants, it's the comfort he brings her. And he deserves better than to be someone's security blanket.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I'm still wondering how she's all over the map. The only thing your quotes did were to assert that:
1.) They're not in a relationship at the moment and
2.) She's made some mistakes.
It's seems readily apparent to me what she wants. She wants Shauk. I get the feeling that because Shauk has been posting about his ex for quite some time now that most people have already demonized her in their minds and, as a result, have painted her as the 'bad guy'.
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The inconsistency arises between what she says and what she does. It's understandable, because I really don't think she has any clue at all what it is she wants or even why she wants it.
If she wanted to be with Shauk, she'd be with Shauk. It's not a complicated situation; they're living under the same bloody roof. And yet, whenever Shauk tried to get a handle on that or steer things in that direction, she was
very quick to point out that they are not in a relationship. She won't commit to being in a relationship with him and seems to still want to be with this other fellow as well (trying to make him jealous, which is often a result of wanting someone and not being able to have them).
She doesn't want to be with Shauk, but she doesn't want to let him go either.
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Think about this; If Shauk didn't care about his ex-girlfriend, then he wouldn't post about her so much. Just food for thought.
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That's not in question. abaya beat me to it, but I'll say it anyway; what makes the situation difficult for Shauk is clearly that he
does still care for her. I'd think that's pretty self-evident, and is also a fairly natural result of the circumstances. If he didn't about her still, he wouldn't need all of us to tell him to leave; hed've already done it.
This girl is not evil; nowhere have I asserted otherwise. As I believe I said above, I'm quite sure she has a lot of redeeming qualities. Nonetheless, she's engaged in a self-destructive behaviour pattern and all Shauk can do is remove himself from her presence before she causes him any more harm than she already has. Again, you cannot save people from themselves. It's up to her to sort herself out and there is absolutely no positive influence that Shauk can have on that process.
You've twice now made a call for objectivity, which is utterly strange to me. There is no objective truth behind emotions; they are subjective by nature. Relationships are not and should not be calculated rational things, because they're based on those subjective feelings.
I understand where you're coming from. I'd love nothing more than to see a happy ending to this situation for all parties. But the fact is that there is no happily ever after here. I will say it for you and Shauk both now, there is
no possible way that these two can go back to having a positive relationship at this point. That's not entirely her fault, but it is what it is. The happy times are in the past and it will be better for both parties if they go their separate ways and keep those happy memories for what they are, instead of tarnishing them by trying to breathe life into something that's already gone.