MrFriendly

A fair point, but in my view, if the Department of Immigration is to decide that detainees are not suitable for naturalisation here, then they should go through this process. What else are we supposed to do with them?

It doesn't seem right that we should be able to detain refugees indefinitely without due process. Remember these aren't criminals, they're refugees. Even alleged criminals are given the right to a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in court.

Unfortunately this is all too true. However, I remember an incident a number of years ago when Indonesia cracked the shits because we gave refugee status to a whole bunch of Indonesians that made it here. It seems that Indonesia wants it both ways. Our government should be willing to stand up to Indonesia on this issue, I dare say they need us a lot more than we need them. But then again, our relationship with Indonesia has always been a sensitive one, but neither of our nations can really afford to be pissing off the other.

I'm inclined to disagree with your statement about the media. I can recall being at a protest in Canberra when Bush came to visit. I was there as an impartial legal observer. I watched the media take several things that happened at that protest completely out of context or flat out lie about events that took place. But why let facts get in the way of a good story eh? The media is used as a tool to INFLUENCE public opinion.

But this point is very important in regards to the Cronulla riots. One of the main news papers in Sydney is the Herald Sun, well known for being conservative and pro right. These are the same people that are good buddies with Allan Jones, the same man recently found guilty by ACMA for making comments that were divisive. Some reading material:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...788205966.html

http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/tra...s/s1898662.htm.

The Cronulla riots was more complex than what the media would have us believe. The western suburbs of Sydney have been a dumping ground for migrant communities (a point I will return to). Beach communities at Bondi, Coogee, and Maroobra had been long frustrated with thugs from the western suburbs (which in general is of lower socio economic status) coming to the beaches and causing problems. This behavior has not just been limited to one ethnic group. The incident that happened was nothing out of the blue, some drunk teenage boys, who roam around in packs, think they're king shit, decided to give grief to a life guard, the life guard gives shit back, and there's a fight.

What happened this time is that it was a life guard who was bashed up. Now, lets think about this for a second, what if it were a bunch of white Australian boys who beat up the life guard? I doubt it would have even made it into the 4th page of the paper, if at all. Instead, the media decided to once again make it real important that everyone know that it was a Lebanese gang, going out of their way to destroy our way of life by beating up a life guard. It was pure sensationalism. If the media had been more responsible, I dare say that the appalling turn of events wouldn't have happened to the severity that it did. It actually made worried about the kind of symbol our own national flag was being used as.

The media in Sydney seems to doing everything it can to create a divide between the general public and the Muslim community. Teenagers being teenagers are feeling alienated and angry at the world. I'm not denying what's going on, I'm not denying there are serious social problems that need to be addressed. But stirring the pot up and vilifying communities really isn't a way forward, would you not agree?

http://www.chilout.org/news/news_archive_0502_1001.html

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights...ts/hrc_24.html <- And this is the governments own findings into such abuses.

Meridae'n, the truth about this is I can sit here and quote sources to support my point, and you no doubt can generate just as many to support yours. But what you and I both have to agree on is that really, we don't know. Neither you or I are there, or have been there, and at the end of the day, really don't know the truth.

But there was an awful amount of ruckuss being generated over the treatment of detainees, and as a democracy, we need to kick up a fuss until something gets done, and until the matter is looked into thoroughly.

Yes, you're right, we do need to find out why, this is important. But, is it right to 'assume' that because they didn't / couldn't go through normal channels that they're immediately bad? The presumption of innocents is one of the key stones to our legal system, why then should it not apply here?

I dare say a lot of refugees don't exactly have the time or ability to access their local post office to go through the application process. Their lives could be in serious danger and going through legitimate channels is simply not an option. There's just so many variables to this, which is why they need to be subjected to due process. However, I don't think it's right we should immediately assume that they've done something wrong or mean malice by coming here.

This is one theory I have. In Melbourne, the vast majority of immigrants are given accommodation in the numerous housing commission flats that are dotted around the inner city. Some are in very popular areas such as Brunswick st, Chappel St, Smith St, Richmond, St Kilda. Now this puts them in the community, with everyone else. They shop at the same supermarkets, they drink at the same pubs, they're thrust straight into Melbourne life.

In Syndey, it almost seems as though they're just chucked out to the outer and western suburbs, segregated from the rest of the community. This will only ever lead to a feeling of alienation from the communities who lived there, and this leads to social problems.

I'm not saying Melbourne doesn't have problems, but you sure as hell hear a lot more about Sydney's social problems than you do Melbourne's. And I lived in Canberra and Brisbane, so it's not just Melbourne media bias I'm basing this off.

I tried having a dig at the Australian Buero of Statistic web site to see the difference between Syndey's and Melbourne Muslim population, but I found it hard to try and dig anything up. But I dare say that Melbourne still has a very sizable Muslim population, and I have in fact seen a number of community Mosques around Collingwood and Carlton.

The general vibe I've felt here is that people are generally at ease and accepting of our Muslim communities, and why the hell not?

I'm reminded off all the empty rhetoric years ago when everyone said Asian communities were going to be a problem, and so far the Asian communities in this country have contributed and fit in quite well I believe.

A good point to be sure, but I'll move back to my other point that they probably expect to be treated fairly and humanely while in detention.


I think this is a good healthy discussion as we both seem to be coming at this from apposing sides. You've made me really consider my answers and not just react with emotion (which I do a lot sometimes ).

I will not deny that there are very obvious social problems in the country. And that there is an increasing divide with our Muslim brothers and sisters because of events on the world stage. But is having dick heads like Alan Jones recklessly shooting their mouth off knowing full well how it will effect public opinion going to make it any better? I dare say it's only going to drive the wedge further.

One thing is certain though, we're all in this together one way or the other. We can either do something constructive to bridge the divide, or we can let the situation worsen.

I'm sick of governments leaving this issue, especially regarding immigration, on the back burner while they focus all their attention on letting big business take over, and being obsessed with economic health. This country is going to face some tough social challenges in the next few years, and I just hope our politicians can make the right call. This country has usually had a good history with tolerance and acceptance, and to me it just seems as though that is being stripped away.

I guess we'll just have to see what transpires.

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