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Pip · 11-28-2006, 03:01 PM

Interpreting the Bible strictly as the word of God

Strictly speaking, Romans is the word of Paul. :P

Romans 5:12-Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world:but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

The "subtitle" of this passage should clue you in. "Death through Adam, life through Christ."

Also, Paul goes on to explain. Romans 5:15-But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (NIV)

Adam brought death to man by eating the fruit of knowledge, Jesus brought Grace to man by dying on the cross.

1. Does this mean God would have tolerated Adam's commission of any sin as long as he didnt eat the fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil and didn't know he was sinning?

Like others have said, he wouldn't have sinned because there was only one law: Don't eat that fruit! Also, before he ate of the fruit he was probably not able to even imagine or consider any action that we today would consider a sin, like, say, sodomising the sheep or murdering Eve.

2. What is the figure? 3. Who is to come?

Jesus. Adam doomed us, Jesus saved us.

Look at Ephesians 2:

1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (NIV)

"Dead" is to be understood metaphorically, as spiritually dead. Jesus and Grace made us alive again through Grace. Note that Grace (and faith) is a gift from God, given freely and unconditionally, and not something you can earn by doing good deeds.

/Atheist born (well, actually not, there's a funny story here) and raised who has just been through a crash-course in Reformed theology. Still atheist.

11-28-2006, 03:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Interpreting the Bible strictly as the word of God Strictly speaking, Romans is the word of Paul. :P Romans 5:12-Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin: and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For until the law sin was in the world:but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. The "subtitle" of this passage should clue you in. "Death through Adam, life through Christ." Also, Paul goes on to explain. Romans 5:15-But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. (NIV) Adam brought death to man by eating the fruit of knowledge, Jesus brought Grace to man by dying on the cross. 1. Does this mean God would have tolerated Adam's commission of any sin as long as he didnt eat the fruit of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil and didn't know he was sinning? Like others have said, he wouldn't have sinned because there was only one law: Don't eat that fruit! Also, before he ate of the fruit he was probably not able to even imagine or consider any action that we today would consider a sin, like, say, sodomising the sheep or murdering Eve. 2. What is the figure? 3. Who is to come? Jesus. Adam doomed us, Jesus saved us. Look at Ephesians 2: 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (NIV) "Dead" is to be understood metaphorically, as spiritually dead. Jesus and Grace made us alive again through Grace. Note that Grace (and faith) is a gift from God, given freely and unconditionally, and not something you can earn by doing good deeds. /Atheist born (well, actually not, there's a funny story here) and raised who has just been through a crash-course in Reformed theology. Still atheist.