eden06

Okay, I will happily do that. The first 20 minutes of the game are spent observing the influences in and around Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, there is very little shooting involved. Infact the game explores the things they enjoyed, various quotes from diaries and music they were interested in, as well as events in they're life, some seemingly trivial, such as memories of a girl Harris liked, to seemingly none trivial, such as the general culture within the school, and within they're families.

Philosophy is discussed by the two in a park before the cafeteria bombs go off, and Erics narcistic tendencies and warped interpretation of various ideas, along with Dylans vulnerabilities and easilly influence able nature are both alluded too.

When the shooting begins, there are never any captions stating the "shooting up classmates" is a primary objective. As you walk around the school various different cues and dialogs are unlocked, some hearsay, some references to the day.

After the shooting scene the player is presented with various images of the day, showing the result of the students inexcusable actions. The main themes explored in this are first off debunking simple scapegoating tactics, the emotional state of the boys, they're relationship with each other and they're peers, and they're warped interpretations of the world around them.

Of course, I can only describe it too you, if you really wanted to have an oppinion that wasn't knee jerk, maybe you could play the game yourself, then draw your own conclusions, as some people have

The maker of the game is under the username "Columbin"

http://columbinegame.com/discuss/viewtopic.php?t=3

Also there are these interviews, one in audio form, one in written form where he states his intentions on making the game.

http://live.canoe.ca/TheShow/Archive...4/1839452.html

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/col...ked-175942.php

First to talk about you blaming the parents, it is again another case of scapegoating, however I shall talk about that later in my reply.

This game is forcing debate on videogames and they're roll in society, such a discussion it prompted, can be seen here. Or even the one we're having right now. What prompted him to make the game has been answered within the forums by Danny Ledone in numerous places, including the places I have already sourced, in the interviews seen above and the forum posts by Danny himself in the games forums.

The "gasoline on the fire" can only really be a good thing in my opinion, had GTA not done just that in the 90's gaming wouldn't be the same as it is today. To assume that as gamers the appropriate thing to do in this instance would be to sink into the cracks and not explore where our favorite medium can go is giving these people the right to censor free speech in the first place. If we don't explore the medium in new and different ways, and just play and create “acceptable” games because that appeases the public, then we are not giving the medium our honest respect as a medium comparable to any others. The majority of gamers, like all other fans of all other mediums have as much right to art on any subject as they like, just because some people don't think of gaming as legitimate an expression as any other does not mean as gamers we should bow down and let them effect us. If that were the case they have as good as won.

Another thought is that there will be some people who had never given the massacres a second thought have played the game, and it has opened they're mind to a dialogue and idea they would not normally be exposed too.

My statement was one of school massacres in general, which are the overall problem, since killing is killing no matter who perpetrates it, however, an extensive list of school shootings and massacres can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_massacres

Notice the section entitled "Other secondary and post-secondary school killings" In which the first shooting perpetrated by a student is in 1974. Although school shootings seem to be on the increase, one has to assume that something within these students, or the climate within which they have been raised, have caused a cocktail effect making them go out and commit these crimes. Just as certainly as Anthony Barbaro couldn't have been influenced solely by videogames in 1974, Eric Houston could not have been influenced by undiagnosed psychopathy or bulling within the school, and Eric Harris wasn't influenced by his inability to get a job.

I reply once again, when the games shooting section begins, there are never any captions stating the "shooting up classmates" is a primary objective. You can make your way through the entire game without killing a single classmate if you are so inclined, something which Danny Ledone has said both on his forums, and in various interviews I have sourced for your consideration. The objective of the game is not to kill people, it is to view the shootings from an internalized perspective, as stated in my second URL, however, for good measure, here's another interview.

I also state once again that the only real way to gain an informed oppinion on this matter would be to play the game. You ask "how exactly does a game in which you try to kill as many schoolchildren as possible convince people that video games are not to blame", but have you thought about playing it and finding out for yourself? Maybe you could answer your own questions and presumptions by the act that I have reccomended all along by linking to the forums in the first place.

Or is it easier assuming you know it all without researching the game, it's intents, it's content, or the impact it's had on both gamers and victims? And then shooting your mouth off as if your knowledge on the subject is somehow supperior by NOT playing the game.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/danny-l...ing-201829.php

Although this is really a matter of perspective, I must say in recent weeks I have not found this to be true. Although I can't possibly speculate on the news sources you see, I write this after a school shooting occurred in Germany. As someone who is interested in school shootings as a social phenomenon, I found the matter was not raised by Sky News (The English version of fox), BBC news or Fox News feed from the US. However, it seems all reports in my country recently on the killings seem to reference the game and the columbine killings, along with various statements speaking of how despicable it probably is. Again, my statement was one of perspective, and from my perspective since the story of the game "broke" in my country, there have been 3 school shootings reported on my local news channels, all of which have stated, in some cases erroneously, that the shooter could have been influenced by the game.

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront. It highlights entirely my thoughts on this subject. The definition of Ignore in the "American Heritage Dictionary" is "To refuse to pay attention to; disregard." This is entirely what I see, the news coverage has pacified us to find an easy answer and then remove it from our psyche, in this case, the game is the scapegoat.

Another example can be found by someone who instead of playing the game, to find out what it's about, disregards it and asks people to "describe" it with sarcastic undertones, instead of researching said game and forming they're own opinions. As well as asking for sources for something I linked in my very first post on this site, when I linked to the forum, IE the makers intention to create dialog on the situation.

Is one not simply ignoring the issue of the game, and what it speculates about the shootings by not playing it and simply blaming the parents? You are disregarding the game and further research on what you believe to be the cause.

It seems common now to find a scapegoat and throw it out there without much research, for instance in your case, the parents. Dylan Klebolds parents state that they're son never showed any violent intentions, and that they couldn't percieve any. They didn't allow guns in they're home and Dylan had a religious, peaceful upbringing. He never stored guns or weapons in his home. In contrast Erics parents encouraged his aspirations to join the military by allowing supervised sessions with guns.

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000...PECTS_TEXT.htm

To state in this case that his parents are entirely to blame would again be short sited, if a parent conducted a strip search on they're adolescent son every time they entered the house, a lot of questions would be asked about the parents role.

If you ever managed to keep something hidden from your parents then by your logic, they are as to blame for the Columbine Massacre as the parents of Harris and Klebold. Perhaps at the ages of 17 and 18 you don't believe people can possibly have a mind of they're own or be responsible for they're own foolish actions, but there are numerous other avenues of scapegoating if you'd like to sample those. Harris's Doctor who perscribed Luvox even though it was known to cause Mania, the Doctor also failed to notice his psychopathy and narcism.

Maybe the pizza shop where they worked? If it is logical to assume someone is responsible enough to hold a job and earn they're income is it not possible that they could somehow be responsible for they're own actions?

I'm sorry, I haven't a clue what a flamebait is, perhaps you could source it?

I don't think of myself as vastly uninformed, had you have followed my original link to the forum you would find that I have read the 11000 page Columbine Report, which comes with a handy guide. Have been an active member of a forum that discusses both the game and the shootings as it's main purpose for the past six months. Read various articles on the State of mind of both perps. Read various reports, diaries and sources made by the killers and about the killers available here.

And of course, I have played the game, and talked to it's author numerous times, which of course means feel myself appropriately informed to give an opinion on it, it's reason for it's creation, and what it says about society.

I mean, it's no alternative to blindly stumbling into accusations of solely the parents and then assuming that's the only possible solution, or asking for a description of the game instead of playing it for myself, but I feel I'm getting there slowly.<<<<<<<SARCASM

Sarcasm works great for us, we should try it more often, good job you stated it was sarcasm otherwise I would have started making the game already.<<<<<<<<< SARCASM

As you would have realised playing the game, and now I shall state for the third time within this rebuttal, the objective is not to kill as many people as possible, the objective is to play through the game understanding the influences on Harris and Klebolds life, and they're warped interpretation of that.

But I do think I'd want that question answered, apparently I'm still Not alone, as this student and victim of the massacre, seems to agree it's a better idea than simply scapegoating and calling that the end of it.

Maybe now you'll play the game and make your own mind up...or maybe it's just easier to assume you know it all about a game you haven't even played and shoot your mouth off, without seeming to have commited even the very BASIC research of playing the game and reading the creators reasoning behind it. I don't give a damn what you think of it after you've done that, but not researching the game, and simply assuming these things has lead you coming out looking "vastly uninformed", and really, I don't think I want to see this happen to you again.

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