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Originally Posted by roachboy
the problem is that i dont see where it can really go as it is currently framed except into a kind of exercise in self-congratulation.
this goofball contest has been going on for a few months--you can access the cartoons (or alot of them) via the museum in teheran that is hosting the exhibit associated with it (it is probably in the op article, but i dont remember....i looked at the website a while ago,...i assume it is still up)
the point of the exhibition and contest were obviously little more than a fuck you prompted by the western responses to the protests over the danish cartoon thing.
it is a more or less official venture of the iranian government.
so the whole thing (the exhibition, the contest, the article you bit for the op) operate within a series of specific and very strange political contexts, which are at this point fairly complicated (and which obviously have alot to do with the various politics about iran)...
so i apologize for the glib post from earlier--everyone gets a few alloted them i think--tick one off my list....
it is not that the thread is worthless, but it could be unless you take account of what surrounds this particular exhibition etc.----but as it stands, the way it is set up, you seem to want to get a sequence of posts talking about what heros of "free speech" folk in the west are....it could be taken in a different direction and could become something else. i should ahve suggested that instead of just being a putz. mea culpa.
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Roach, thanks for your response, I appreciate your clarification. Fair enough, I probably didn't frame the discussion well enough and should have given it more thought instead of rushing to post.
My intention was a non-partisan evaluation and examination of how two "sides" approach and deal with a controversy that entails free speech. I wanted to look at how the Islamic world dealt with the Mohammed (Danish) cartoon) vis-a-vis the western reaction to the Holocaust Cartoon. To me this was an intriguing and interesting focal point as I believe many if the so-called "clash of civilizations" conflicts could be examined in this example. I especially wanted to view it through a more objetive and non-partisan lens instead of the usual partisanship we get here. That's why I chose to post it in General Discussion and not Politics.
Your point about the Iranian participation is interesting. Iran did spearhead the event but participants came from all over with the eventual winner from Morocco. Iran intrigues me. Was it a deliberate "fuck you" to the west or could there be another reason? Maybe they have "given us a taste of our own medicine"? It's an interesting move because our reaction to it in my opinion, will be watched by many. If we claim a freedom of speech route, then we have to allow it on the other end. I suppose a better counter would have been a cartoon of Jesus carrying a sword and shield or dressed in modern military garb in a menacing manner (as an analogue to the Mohammed cartoon).
If we object too vehemently or what-not, then we could be called out as hypocrites and of setting a double standard. This is what I had originall set out to discuss in regards ti the cartoons.
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
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I dont get your "bigger man" argument. I dont think the US and Israel have "overreacted" nor do I think they should just "brush it off".
IMO, both the US and Israel governments have responded appropriately by condemning the extremist Islamic government of Iran for this "contest" and not broadly condemning Islam or suggesting in any way that it represesents more that what it is.
As to free speech, I suspect we will see the cartoon in the media of both the US and Israel, with a proper description and without mischaracterizing it, as some here seem prone to do when it comes to the acts of Muslim extremists.
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DC, I tried to clarify things in my response post to Roach, thanks.
I'm not sure I agree with the condemnation though. While a theme of Holocaust may be tasteless (subjective), unless it was a specific contest to illustrate a Holocaust denial then it shouldn't be a problem.
Looking at the descriptions and now the example provided by ASU2003, I don't really get a Holocaust connection either or even how these cartoons would need condemning by any government.
I don't see any mischaracterization here or are you referring to something else?
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Originally Posted by ASU2003
I am all about fairness. If the media wants to offend the Muslims, it is fair game for them to make some cartoons against Israel, the UN, and the US. I think they did a good job, and I laughed at the statue of liberty one (it is so true). And the Israel looks like it is about how they are building the wall to keep 'terrorists' out, but during the holocaust, there was also a wall around them to keep them in. Their conditions are a little better now though.
Here is the winner:
http://www.irancartoon.com/120/holocaust/index.htm
http://www.irancartoon.com/100/conte...o-(Ukraine.jpg
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Thanks for posting these ASU2003. I agree with our post very much (it's actually what I was trying to allude to but failed miserably).
I must admit, I rather like the cartoons (I'm a fan of political cartoons already).
Ok, wow, I just went and checked out all the cartoons.
Very powerful stuff ranging from Holocaust denial to comparing the Holocaust to present-day treatment of the Palestinians. Many of them are very well done.
Although I didn't like the denial stuff, many of the others were very well stated and powerful in conveying their respective messages. Some reminded me of my trip to Israel and the West Bank this summer. I recommend taking a look.