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longbough · 10-15-2006, 06:03 AM

I'm still waiting for a convincing argument why running away isn't a good idea.

What is the MAIN objective?
Is it to disarm/disable a gunman or to have the children live? These objectives aren't the same.

If the main objective is to have the children live then all arguments should be based on the probability of survival - not the probability of stopping the gunman.

So far most folks reason that it's better to fight than to passively await certain death. I agree but waiting around isn't an option. We're talking about running away.

"What if he's blocking the only exit?" That will only happen if he chooses to take only a single classroom on a second floor or higher. Why not have the teacher (who could be trained by state mandate) attack the gunman while the children escape?

What's wrong with running away?

In the real-life encounters the children weren't instructed to run but wait around quietly and wait for the authorities to come and rescue them. Just instruct the kids to run away instead and have the teachers attack the gunman.

What's wrong with running away?

In martial arts I've learned that, for the purposes of personal defense, in a real encounter against someone with a knife or gun, the object is to get the hell out of there. If I'm cornered the objective is to attack to manufacture the opportunity to escape. (... so why would we teach our kids to do otherwise without the benefit of training?)

What's wrong with running away?

A cop is taught that their first obligation is for their own well-being - even at the cost of letting a subject escape. If a cop finds himself unarmed face to face against someone with a firearm he/she is going find the opportunity to get away and call for assistance. (... so why would we teach our kids to do otherwise without the benefit of training?)

What's wrong with running away?

When a gun goes off in a closed space it makes a deafening and startling noise. A mob of kids is more likely to stop dead in their tracks when the shots start to ring out. In fact, as soon as a few kids stop/retreat then it's human nature for their friends to do likewise.

What's wrong with running away?

Fleeing children are less likely to get shot. i.e. twenty students running away = twenty moving (and receding) targets going in twenty different directions.

But if they attack they converge into a pack (especially if a gunman retreats a few yards before making his shot) wherein multiple targets can be taken down with every single shot.

What's wrong with running away?

10-15-2006, 06:03 AM	#45 (permalink)
longbough Soylent Green is people. Location: Northern California	I'm still waiting for a convincing argument why running away isn't a good idea. What is the MAIN objective? Is it to disarm/disable a gunman or to have the children live? These objectives aren't the same. If the main objective is to have the children live then all arguments should be based on the probability of survival - not the probability of stopping the gunman. So far most folks reason that it's better to fight than to passively await certain death. I agree but waiting around isn't an option. We're talking about running away. "What if he's blocking the only exit?" That will only happen if he chooses to take only a single classroom on a second floor or higher. Why not have the teacher (who could be trained by state mandate) attack the gunman while the children escape? What's wrong with running away? In the real-life encounters the children weren't instructed to run but wait around quietly and wait for the authorities to come and rescue them. Just instruct the kids to run away instead and have the teachers attack the gunman. What's wrong with running away? In martial arts I've learned that, for the purposes of personal defense, in a real encounter against someone with a knife or gun, the object is to get the hell out of there. If I'm cornered the objective is to attack to manufacture the opportunity to escape. (... so why would we teach our kids to do otherwise without the benefit of training?) What's wrong with running away? A cop is taught that their first obligation is for their own well-being - even at the cost of letting a subject escape. If a cop finds himself unarmed face to face against someone with a firearm he/she is going find the opportunity to get away and call for assistance. (... so why would we teach our kids to do otherwise without the benefit of training?) What's wrong with running away? When a gun goes off in a closed space it makes a deafening and startling noise. A mob of kids is more likely to stop dead in their tracks when the shots start to ring out. In fact, as soon as a few kids stop/retreat then it's human nature for their friends to do likewise. What's wrong with running away? Fleeing children are less likely to get shot. i.e. twenty students running away = twenty moving (and receding) targets going in twenty different directions. But if they attack they converge into a pack (especially if a gunman retreats a few yards before making his shot) wherein multiple targets can be taken down with every single shot. What's wrong with running away? __________________ "I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi Last edited by longbough; 10-15-2006 at 09:20 AM..