Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Christian Fundy effect on official policy: Israel, Global Warming, Stem Cell, Schiavo

host · 07-26-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

According to you, Israel, JINSA and the Jews run American foreign policy.
Now you're saying the fundamentalist Christians run American foreign policy.

Not a big religion guy, are you host?

powerclown, I've read posts on this forum where you have engaged roachboy, and....even me, in detailed, "back 'n forth" discussion. Later, I learned on the page, linked below, that you and I don't speak the same language:
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...t=97588&page=3

I'm trying to figure out what the fuck is behind what I see as going "terribly wrong" in my country, powerclown. By posting here, I'm sharing what I've found.....kind of thinking "out loud".....displaying some things that shape "what I think I know..." I probably don't know as much as most other people.

If you don't want to participate in a discussion with me, that's fine, but please don't come here and post like you did above.....

It isn't me who is posting "on the fringe" ideas, powerclown. The president has the "on the fringe" title locked up....his appointments demonstrate that he owns that distinction. We're closer to six years into this freakish Bush era, than we are to five, and there's enough of a track record showing, to support my point:

Remember the first man appointed by Bush, before he picked Jerry Bremer, to run the Provisional Authority in post invasion Iraq? It was JINSA Jake Garner:

Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...arner.profile/
Garner seeks to reprise his success

By Patrick Cooper
CNN
Monday, May 19, 2003 Posted: 11:11 AM EDT (1511 GMT)

(CNN) -- Retired U.S. Army Lt. Gen. Jay Garner has returned to the Pentagon, but the timing of his return to Iraq is yet to be determined.

Garner is eventually to become the "interim transitional civil administrator" of Iraq -- a title as carefully worded as any.

Now biding his time in Kuwait, he is set to take on the tenuous diplomatic role of transitioning Iraq to a new civilian government.

........One wildcard issue will be Garner's signing of an October 2000 statement blaming Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority for ongoing violence in Israel.

Dozens of retired American military officers signed the statement, produced in conjunction with the Washington-based Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs. Garner also earlier attended a JINSA-led trip to Israel.

Although Iraq and Israel historically have been hostile JINSA issued a statement in late March defending Garner's trip:

"The idea that 10 days in the company of JINSA, traveling in a democratic and friendly country, would fundamentally alter his understanding of the requirements of American policy in Iraq is ludicrous and highly offensive."

Quote:

http://afa.gazette.com/fullstory.php?id=4838
Visitors board says bias complex (04/09/05)

AFA religious training modeled

By PAM ZUBECK THE GAZETTE

Religious bias will continue to pose challenges for the Air Force Academy because it's an issue society as a whole is struggling to resolve, the head of an oversight board said Friday.

"Society right now is going through a real debate," said James Gilmore, Virginia's former governor. "I'm just warning you this is going to be more difficult than you think it is.".....

.....Diverse religious beliefs should be accommodated when possible, he said, although the mission always comes first.

<h3>"Evangelical Christians do not check their religion at the door," Gilmore said. "I think that is not understood in American society,</h3> and as a result we're seeing a lot of condemnation of evangelical Christians because they are seen to be aggressively asserting themselves, and when it's in a governmental context, it's seen as an impingement on people."

Does this seem like a guy who should have been promoted to a 3 star and put in charge of "defense for intelligence and warfighting support"? Do you think that Rumsfeld promoted and transfered Gen. Boykin without input from Cheney or Bush?

Quote:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/early...anizes_ag.html
And then there's probably the longest-serving officer in one assignment in bureaucratic history: Lt. Gen. William G. (“Jerry”) Boykin. He has deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence and warfighting support since July 23, 2003. Maybe Boykin is indispensable, maybe he is so good at his job that Rumsfeld can't stand to let him go.

More likely, Rumsfeld can't stand the battle that would ensue if he nominated the famous Boykin, known for his religious devotion (he was once a vociferous speaker on the Christian circuit) for another job or another star.

In other words, it's perfectly okay to keep Boykin in his job for three years -- a military eternity -- to avoid political trouble and oversight. When it comes to actually fighting the war -- if any of these generals and admirals can actually be labeled fighting -- on the other hand, year long or shorter assignments seem perfectly routine. What a way to run a railroad.

Quote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/po...rint&position=
August 20, 2004
General Said to Be Faulted Over Speeches
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

ASHINGTON, Aug. 19 (AP) - A Pentagon investigation has concluded that a senior intelligence officer violated regulations by failing to make it clear that he was not acting in an official capacity when, in speaking at churches, he cast the war on terrorism in religious terms, a Defense Department official said Thursday.

In most instances the officer, Lt. Gen. William G. Boykin, was wearing his Army uniform.

The inquiry, by the Defense Department's deputy inspector general, found that General Boykin, deputy under secretary of defense for intelligence, had also violated Pentagon rules by failing to obtain advance clearance for his remarks, which gained wide publicity through news reports last fall.

In one appearance, according to those reports, General Boykin told a religious group in Oregon that Islamic extremists hated the United States "because we're a Christian nation, because our foundation and our roots are Judeo-Christians.''

Discussing a 1993 battle by American soldiers against a Muslim warlord in Somalia, he told an audience: "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."

He also declared in one of his speeches that the enemy in the antiterrorism fight was Satan and that God had put President Bush in the White House.

The report on the Boykin investigation has not been publicly released. Its findings were described Thursday by a senior Pentagon official familiar with its conclusions.

The report says that in considering possible action against the general, the Army should take into account that he consulted military lawyers in advance about the propriety of making the speeches and was not advised against doing so.

The Washington Post, which reported the conclusion of the investigation on Thursday, said the inquiry had determined that General Boykin discussed his involvement in the war on terrorism at 23 religious-oriented events beginning in January 2002 and that he wore his uniform while speaking at all but two. He spoke mostly at Baptist or Pentecostal churches.

Quote:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in643650.shtml
The Holy Warrior
General Called a Religious Fanatic Finally Speaks Out

Sept. 15, 2004

.......But President Bush received so much heat about Boykin from Muslim leaders that even he took a shot at the general: “Gen. Boykin’s comments don’t reflect the administration’s comments. … He doesn’t reflect my point of view.”

“That was a painful moment, but I put it in perspective,” said Boykin of Mr. Bush’s comments. “What the president heard was what was portrayed in the media. The president didn’t hear my presentation.”

Boykin tried to end the controversy by asking for an investigation by the Pentagon’s inspector general. Ten months later, the investigation concluded that he had violated department regulations by failing to clear his comments in advance.

The secretary of the Army is expected to issue Boykin a letter of concern, which amounts to nothing more than a mild slap on the wrist. That closes the investigation, but doesn't address the central question of whether a senior officer, wearing his uniform, should speak so openly about his faith. And that leaves the controversy right back to where it began when this self-described holy roller took to the pulpit.

Why did he start speaking to church groups? “I was asked to come and talk to Americans, many of which had their sons and daughters mobilized and involved in this war,” says Boykin. “So my purpose was to be an encouragement to Americans while we were at war.”

In churches all across the country, Boykin told riveting stories of how God sustains Americans in battle. “Before we launched that first mission, we all prayed 'God go with us. God keep your hands on us,'” said Boykin in one speech.

He tells the congregation that when he was a young captain, God actually spoke to him, telling him to join the Army’s elite Delta Force: “There are times when God speaks to you in an audible voice. He spoke to me that morning because I said, ‘Satan is gathering his forces.’ He said, ‘Yes, son, but so am I.’ And I knew I was to be there.”
Boykin has been on the front lines of the battle against radical Muslims for a quarter of a century, ever since Islamic revolutionaries seized the U.S. embassy in Tehran and took Americans hostage. He was one of the Delta Force commandos who went in to rescue them. The mission ended in failure on a remote desert airstrip when a helicopter ran into a transport plane full of soldiers.

“It was a huge ball of fire. They could not survive,” recalls Boykin.

It was a disaster military, but in Boykin’s telling, it was also a miracle: “That aircraft was going to explode any moment. But as I prayed in the name of Jesus, the door of that aircraft opened and through those flames came 45 men running just as hard as they could.”

That’s not just a war story that gets better with each retelling. It’s exactly what happened...........

Do the following news reports concerning the Air Force academy describe events and a climate that seems "normal" in one of the three most prestigious military academies in the world?

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051201740.html
Air Force Removes Chaplain From Post
Officer Decried Evangelicals' Influence

By T.R. Reid
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 13, 2005; Page A04

DENVER, May 12 -- An Air Force chaplain who complained that evangelical Christians were trying to "subvert the system" by winning converts among cadets at the Air Force Academy was removed from administrative duties last week, just as the Pentagon began an in-depth study of alleged religious intolerance among cadets and commanders at the school.

"They fired me," said Capt. MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran minister who was removed as executive officer of the chaplain unit on May 4. "They said I should be angry about these outside groups who reported on the strident evangelicalism at the academy. The problem is, I agreed with those reports."....

Quote:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062200598.html
Intolerance Found at Air Force Academy
Military Report Criticizes Religious Climate but Does Not Cite Overt Bias

By Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Page A02

........He said his group, which visited the academy over four days in early May, was there to "take the pulse" of the religious climate, not to investigate wrongdoing.

Examples of questionable behavior highlighted in the report included the school's head football coach hanging a "Team Jesus" banner in the locker room in November 2004; the academy's commandant sending out a schoolwide message on the National Day of Prayer and encouraging cadets to use the "J for Jesus" hand signal; and senior school personnel signing on to a Christian advertisement citing scripture in the base newspaper.

Also detailed in the report was an incident in February 2004, when cadets reported their peers had placed fliers on the more than 4,000 place settings at the cadet dining facility and in other common areas promoting the film "The Passion of the Christ."

"Cadets felt they were being proselytized and pressured to see the movie," the report said. "Jewish cadets told the team they encountered anti-Semitic comments that they believe 'The Passion of The Christ' flyer event inspired."

Cadets also reported being harassed for not taking part in voluntary prayer meetings during basic training and being labeled as instead taking part in the "Heathen Flight" back to dorms for time to relax.

The concerns about religious intolerance arose during earlier investigations of complaints that sexual harassment was common on the campus but were ignored by school administrators. The teams studying the academy heard stories of favoritism toward evangelical cadets and faculty members and allegations of discrimination against others...........

powerclown, if none of the above causes you concern, if you thought that it was "normal" for the POTUS and nearly the entire republican congressional membership of the house and the senate to converge on Washington in a rare weekend session to pass and sign a bill into law that attempted to remove the custodial, marital rights of one man to decide what was best medically for his wife who was for a decade in a chronic vegetative state, if the fact that both VP Cheney and John Bolton were affiliated with JINSA, not to mention the roster of PNAC and it's influence in the Pentagon, seems out of the ordinary, consider this:

Quote:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/042...n,53582,1.html
The Jesus Landing Pad
Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
by Rick Perlstein
May 18th, 2004 10:00 AM

It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists........Most of all, apparently, we're not supposed to know the National Security Council's top Middle East aide consults with apocalyptic Christians eager to ensure American policy on Israel conforms with their sectarian doomsday scenarios.

But now we know.

"Everything that you're discussing is information you're not supposed to have," barked Pentecostal minister Robert G. Upton when asked about the off-the-record briefing his delegation received on March 25. Details of that meeting appear in a confidential memo signed by Upton and obtained by the Voice.

The e-mailed meeting summary reveals NSC Near East and North African Affairs director Elliott Abrams sitting down with the Apostolic Congress and massaging their theological concerns. Claiming to be "the Christian Voice in the Nation's Capital," the members vociferously oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. They fear an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza might enable just that, and they object on the grounds that all of Old Testament Israel belongs to the Jews. Until Israel is intact and Solomon's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth.

Abrams attempted to assuage their concerns by stating that "the Gaza Strip had no significant Biblical influence such as Joseph's tomb or Rachel's tomb and therefore is a piece of land that can be sacrificed for the cause of peace."

Three weeks after the confab, President George W. Bush reversed long-standing U.S. policy, endorsing Israeli sovereignty over parts of the West Bank in exchange for Israel's disengagement from the Gaza Strip.....

powerclown, my purpose here, and in every post I compose, is to persuade others to question what they think that they "know". To me, it seemed odd that the U.S. transitioned so rapidly from being recognized as an "honest broker" in keeping diplomacy alive in the middle east, to the reduced influence that the U.S. now seems to display.....openly supporting only Israel.

If nothing else, this seems a strategy that ignores the reality that 30 percent of the world's petroleum comes from that region, and that the U.S. has never been more dependent on an uninterrupted supply of imported petroleum, than it seems to be today. I think that we in the U.S. are going to experience fuel shortages and declining dollar purchasing power, much sooner than we recognize, because of these misguided religious influences on our government.
The first step to possibly reversing the disproportionate and harmful religious influence/Israeli lobby is to identify it, and raise awareness about these influences that seem to be counter to our national self interests.