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Originally Posted by cyrnel
catback, that's speaking to debris piles and digging in, not the underlying traction. When the surface itself has poor traction a buildup of debris in front of the tire is often better, and locking up the tire is how it's generated. This was especially true with early ABS. Ice, well that's pretty much anti-gravity. Assume the position and enjoy.
I think there's a bit of talking past each other going on here. I'm sure you guys have driven many vehicles at many speeds (another track junkie here - but I'm not Schumacher, are you?) I haven't seen enough reality enter into the examples however. It's not very useful to assume track environments and full attention for 30minutes of 9/10 driving beyond theory and absolutes. It doesn't help a discussion about averages and daily driving which I believe has to enter into any discussion about feature benefits for daily drivers.
How about you're near the end of a two hour trip to Mom's. A beverage in one hand, a cell headset on an ear, a child in the back seat and wife next to you. It's evening and there's been light rain so surfaces are mixed wet & dry. Someone pulls in front of you. Oh shit. Baby screams, wife says something. Your briefcase flies onto the floor. Your mind races faster than any car. Nothing like good ABS to let you maneuver in these circumstances. (Old, skanky ABS on the other hand, that's just interesting enough to make you hesitate and wish you'd bought the BMW instead of the chevy.)
Okay, to averages. Now you are Schumacher, same situation minus the distractions. You make a masterful twitch or two of the wheel to initiate a drift round the miscreant and stop curbside on the outside corner. Now, the guy behind you has the distractions but doesn't have ABS, and you're Schumacher so he can't be... Don't you wish he had ABS?
These things always become debates about absolutes but in reality it freaking depends.
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All these lock-up theories I'd love to see each one of you put yours to the test, I've done my own personal testing by experience and I've seen the ABS and non-ABS testing by a major automaker at a skid track with professional drivers in regular everyday vehicles (mini-vans to be exact). All I've seen and experienced make me extremely doubtful of the "lock-up" is better idea. As far as the debris in front of tire idea it possibly makes an impact albeit a small one, same as the rubber build up accumulated behind the tire of someone burning rubber. As far as to ABS or not to ABS, if it doesn't work right then it might as well not be on the vehicle but if it is a good working ABS than it's a great thing to have although one can make due without it.