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Originally Posted by stevo
Of course I'm not going to agree with any of your points - not to insult you, but they are more suited to the old USSR than America. But skipping ahead #3, what if I have a consulting business, where my wife and I are the owners and we have no employees. We have annual revenues of $1,000,000 and together we pocket $500,000 a year in profit. Now we want to hire someone to do some basic data-entry and report proofing. This position only requires 20hrs a week. We decide to pay this part time employee $30,000 a year to work 20 hours a week entering data and proofing reports. (a very very generous deal) So are you telling me my wife and I can only take home $120,000 combined for the year. Don't you see how preposterous your suggestion is? I would be better off not hiring someone than to hire them.
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For smaller proprietorships such as your example, there could be ways to get around it, such as it's privately owned and the profit is yours. Just as in any small business. When I owned my pizza place I had a set salary I paid myself, but I also had unlimited access to the profits. I had no shareholders or partners to answer to so those profits were in essence mine to do with as I pleased. Same as for you and your wife in your example.
Ah yes the USSR reference....lol. They had the same problem we do now, in different ideologies but exactly the same. Business and government are one and the same. The ideal of Communism in a pure form can work on small local levels and had worked for many places for hundreds of years. However, on a national scale, it develops problems because eventually it leads to a government of totalitarianism and dictatorship.
Our problem is not leading us down that road (some could argue it is and I agree to some degree) however, we are allowing business to dictate what powers and what abilities people have. I truly believe pure capitalism can work but not on the global level that we are dealing with now. It destroys democracy and the middle class. Because in order to have democracy you cannot have a 2 class system it won't work, eventually you fall into the feudal/monarchial positions.
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On to point 2
Now what happens if there is a natural disaster, like a hurricane in FL that wipes out the tomato and pepper crops. The farmers that own these crops only have a limited supply left and it will take at least 2 months to get more product to market. But the demand for these crops remains steady. The laws of supply and demand tell us that the price for tomatoes and peppers will increase for a limited time until the supply returns to normal. Are these poor farmers supposed to suck it up and take it because of a price freeze on all goods? What about the farmer? its not his fault a hurricane wiped out his crop, but shouldn't he be able to sell what he has left for the most he can? After all, they are his peppers and tomatoes.
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True and that would fall into what the government does now and that is subsidize and help the farmers, what few there are. If you look at labels more and more of our fruits and vegetables are imported anyway. I defy you to find more than just a very few companies that have labelled "all oranges/apples/ etc from the USA".... The only 1 I can think of is Florida's Natural Orange Juice, everyone else says product of USA/Argentina/Brazil/ etc. So, while I see this could be a problem I think there could be measures to help this.
Big business and the rich control what 95% of the wealth and thus control who has the money to run for any office. As we are seeing in Ohio, in Texas and so on campaign finances can turn an election totally around.
And while my ideas bring government control into the mix it could be short term, and I guarantee the rich will still be making their millions. But the playing field and buying power will be a little more level.
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Do we really have to discuss what will happen to the number of employed people in this country if the minimum wage was increased to $13.75 an hour? Do we? Do we really?
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Why so hostile? That is what this thread is about? I have a feeling instead of debating you would rather call names and not even consider the issues brought forth.
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Its good to dream, pan, but its better to be practical. I'm not for equality if it means we are all equally poor.
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I showed my arguments above, that it would be short term, tax revenue and economies would boom and not spiral (sorry we don't spiral we go up hit a peak then bottom out, then go up but not as far then bottom out.... and so on.... to where we are just flatassed bottoming out now, with upward spikes that barely register and their length is somewhat inconsequential.
We would not all be equally poor. the rich would still be rich as there is no limit on what they can own and how much dividend a company can pay stockholders. So the desire for a company to profit would still be there.
As I said there will be those that take advantage of the situation save and are able to move forward, there are those that won't. But we'll be able to say we did everything we could and move on.
If we sit here and do what we are then we are losing the battle fast and within a generation or 2 this nation will be nothing except a scary country with dictatorial leaders who threaten to nuke anyone into submission. And we're even going to lose that option when the debts come due. What are we going to nuke China because they want to collect on the trade deficit and the T-Bills and Bonds they bought from us? Are we going to go to war so we don't have to honor the debts we accrued? How is that better than my idea?
Also, as I said after 1-2 years, McDonald's can go to the government show exactly why that hamburger is now going to cost $9.00. I seriously doubt it will.
I am a firm believer of the opposite of what is happening. I believe you pay people more the demand on goods eventually goes up with less debt and therefore the economy truly moves forward. as it stands now, we pay barely enough to live on extend credit to the max and pray the people can pay and pray noone comes to collect the debt all at once.
But luck will end, and someone will want to collect their debt eventually and then everyone else will have to collect their debt to pay the debts they have. So eventually (and like I said I predict within 1-2 generations .... that is in our lifetime, God willing) we'll all be dirt poor and have lost everything.
At least my plan ( with adjustments by professionals that could truly work with it and figure out exactly how to make it work) we give people a fighting chance.
If it were up to me there would be a world minimum wage so as to wipe away any of these cheap offshore labor jobs. But soon we'll be in that situation, where we'll be Indonesia and China and the Phillippines, with low wages, a standard of living that is pathetic and no chance for class advancement.