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The_Dunedan · 01-23-2005, 10:29 AM

Let's be clear here. The actions of the Wahhabist faction insurgents ( al-Zarqawi and his bunch ) in Iraq are inexcuseable and should be roundly condemned. In fact, numerous Muslim leaders around the world have condemned them.
http://www.proislam.com/articles_repudiate%20hate.htm
The barbarity of such things offends the majority of Muslims.

However, it must be recognized that there are two distinct factions among the insurgents in Iraq. The first of these is the well-organized, well-funded, but much smaller "Jihadist" faction, who are fronted by men like al-Zarqawi, and who have extensive ties to Usama bin Laden. The second faction is much, much larger but is less well-funded and much less well trained; these are a hodgepodge of former Baathists, Feydaeen Saddam, and ( by a substantial majority ) ordinary pissed-off Iraqis who want the foreigners out of their country.

Thes two groups hate each other, and expend a fair amount of energy killing one another, in classical Middle-Eastern tribal fashion. It must be remembered that Saddam's regime was secular, and that he and Usama bin Laden had been trading insults and death-sentances for almost ten years. So far, at least, the second group has shown no prediliction for cutting off people's heads; this is a "Jihadist" thing.

However, we must also be clear about the treatment of captives. If we are to expect any respect or propert treatment for our captured soldiers, whether in Iraq or anywhere else, we have the obligation to our soldier, to make sure that they treat captives properly. Because the simple fact is that when other countries see our soldiers humiliating or abusing prisoners, they take this as a license to abuse OUR soldiers. If for no other reason that to avoid having our own soldiers abused and tortured, this kind of thing needs to be stopped. Not investigated, not explained, and not psychologized away; STOPPED. NOW. If that means firing every Brass Hat all the way up to Rumsfeld, so be it. Because the simple facts are that stupid people are going to continue to do stupid things ( Like abuse prisoners, brag about it, and take pictures ) and it is going to continue to leak out; we live in the age of the Internet. Nothing is secret anymore. And as long as this remains the case, other people from other nations are going to continue to see our abuse of prisoners as license for them to abuse prisoners.

01-23-2005, 10:29 AM	#28 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Let's be clear here. The actions of the Wahhabist faction insurgents ( al-Zarqawi and his bunch ) in Iraq are inexcuseable and should be roundly condemned. In fact, numerous Muslim leaders around the world have condemned them. http://www.proislam.com/articles_repudiate%20hate.htm The barbarity of such things offends the majority of Muslims. However, it must be recognized that there are two distinct factions among the insurgents in Iraq. The first of these is the well-organized, well-funded, but much smaller "Jihadist" faction, who are fronted by men like al-Zarqawi, and who have extensive ties to Usama bin Laden. The second faction is much, much larger but is less well-funded and much less well trained; these are a hodgepodge of former Baathists, Feydaeen Saddam, and ( by a substantial majority ) ordinary pissed-off Iraqis who want the foreigners out of their country. Thes two groups hate each other, and expend a fair amount of energy killing one another, in classical Middle-Eastern tribal fashion. It must be remembered that Saddam's regime was secular, and that he and Usama bin Laden had been trading insults and death-sentances for almost ten years. So far, at least, the second group has shown no prediliction for cutting off people's heads; this is a "Jihadist" thing. However, we must also be clear about the treatment of captives. If we are to expect any respect or propert treatment for our captured soldiers, whether in Iraq or anywhere else, we have the obligation to our soldier, to make sure that they treat captives properly. Because the simple fact is that when other countries see our soldiers humiliating or abusing prisoners, they take this as a license to abuse OUR soldiers. If for no other reason that to avoid having our own soldiers abused and tortured, this kind of thing needs to be stopped. Not investigated, not explained, and not psychologized away; STOPPED. NOW. If that means firing every Brass Hat all the way up to Rumsfeld, so be it. Because the simple facts are that stupid people are going to continue to do stupid things ( Like abuse prisoners, brag about it, and take pictures ) and it is going to continue to leak out; we live in the age of the Internet. Nothing is secret anymore. And as long as this remains the case, other people from other nations are going to continue to see our abuse of prisoners as license for them to abuse prisoners.