Is this a good buy? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pixelbend · 11-29-2005, 01:13 PM

My brother in law is a serious gun-head. He is considering getting rid of some of his stock and was showing me a Springfield Arms 40 caliber the other day. It's hammerless with the safety in the grip. Looks to be in really good condition. I could probably pick it up for $350-$400.

Is that a good buy?

ziadel · 11-30-2005, 04:45 PM

Are you talking about a Sprigfield Armory XD in .40 S&W?

this?

pixelbend · 12-01-2005, 05:30 AM

Yep, that's the one.

Suave · 12-03-2005, 11:38 PM

Slightly off-topic rant, but is it really so hard to just train yourself to flick a safety switch before firing, instead of having these strange (and seemingly dangerous) Glock-knockoff "safeties"?

longbough · 12-04-2005, 11:46 AM

whatever you get ... shoot it a lot and train with it ...

If you train a lot the presence or absence of a manual safety is less of an issue

If you don't train enough then the issue of a manual safety is less important than the issue of personal safety

MSD · 12-04-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

Slightly off-topic rant, but is it really so hard to just train yourself to flick a safety switch before firing, instead of having these strange (and seemingly dangerous) Glock-knockoff "safeties"?

Is it really so hard to train yourself to practice proper trigger discipline?

Chilek9 · 12-05-2005, 02:32 PM

For what it's worth...
I have a LOT of experience with that particular model.....RUN don't walk away from that pistol. It WILL fire out of battery, risking a very nasty case of case blowout. It has a disgusting rate of failure to lock problems and be prepared to replace the lower receiver insert that mates to the barrel ramp (we broke around 40 of them, all guns had less than 5,000 rounds in them). Again, RUN don't walk.

longbough · 12-05-2005, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilek9

For what it's worth...
I have a LOT of experience with that particular model.....RUN don't walk away from that pistol. It WILL fire out of battery, risking a very nasty case of case blowout. It has a disgusting rate of failure to lock problems and be prepared to replace the lower receiver insert that mates to the barrel ramp (we broke around 40 of them, all guns had less than 5,000 rounds in them). Again, RUN don't walk.

Whew - I'm glad I stuck to my Glock 23 ...

Chilek9 · 12-05-2005, 02:38 PM

I don't like those, either. For some reason, during the same test that we had the XD's in, we had TONS of FTF and FTL problems with the Glocks. Can't explain it, but I really really really really HATE the trigger safety and the tendency to "bite" the thumb knuckle where it connects to the palm. I understand why Glock shooters shoot with thumbs up.

Suave · 12-05-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Is it really so hard to train yourself to practice proper trigger discipline?

The trigger might get caught on something as well. I've heard accounts of police officers getting shot by their holstered Glocks without even touching the pistol themselves. Granted, this grip safety thing looks safer, but I personally think that the extra safety switch is a good thing to have around. It's not like you have to use it. How many people use the parking brake on their cars? Not many that I know, but it's still nice to have.

Chilek9 · 12-05-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

The trigger might get caught on something as well. I've heard accounts of police officers getting shot by their holstered Glocks without even touching the pistol themselves.

I've been carrying a gun for the government for twenty one years. This is not the problem you are implying (or have inferred from something you read). The "something" you refer to is normally the operator's finger being put where it shouldn't be during the process of drawing the weapon. I've carried 1911's and variants and weapons that have no active safeties and in 21 years, every single negligent discharge (I don't believe in accidental discharges) has been operator error. Or, what old GI's like to call "operator headspace and timing."

Chilek9 · 12-05-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longbough

Whew - I'm glad I stuck to my Glock 23 ...

By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad gun. A LOT of that is personal preference. Some of us old guys that cut our teeth on 1911's have a hard time with some newer stuff. But I do think that H&K and Sig are great pistols. I just bought a Springfield Armory 1911 and went home after a few years. It's nice to have a real pistol again.

ziadel · 12-05-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilek9

By the way, I'm not saying it's a bad gun. A LOT of that is personal preference. Some of us old guys that cut our teeth on 1911's have a hard time with some newer stuff. But I do think that H&K and Sig are great pistols. I just bought a Springfield Armory 1911 and went home after a few years. It's nice to have a real pistol again.

the XD is a great choice for the 1911 entusiast, it mimics the 1911 grip angle perfectly.

I havent heard any horror stories about XD's, I've heard plenty about Glock, but not about XD's.

BEsides, springfields customer service is second to none, they carry a lifetime warranty, if it gets testy, send it back and they'll fix it, wether its a week after purchase or 5 years.

Chilek9 · 12-05-2005, 05:01 PM

I was saying that the Glock isn't a bad gun, per se. The XD, however, is a death trap. I fired nine different versions, 1500 rounds each and I'm telling you, that the gun is a disaster. The croatian made parts are cast with poor quality metals and crack and break too easily. The weapon would fire out of battery and we had FREQUENT FTF, FTL and FTE failures.

ziadel · 12-05-2005, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilek9

I was saying that the Glock isn't a bad gun, per se. The XD, however, is a death trap. I fired nine different versions, 1500 rounds each and I'm telling you, that the gun is a disaster. The croatian made parts are cast with poor quality metals and crack and break too easily. The weapon would fire out of battery and we had FREQUENT FTF, FTL and FTE failures.

exactly when and where was this?

Chilek9 · 12-06-2005, 07:49 AM

Because it was an official test, I can't really say without violating a non-disclosure agreement, I can only say, as an informed consumer, that the XD's submitted ALL failed (over 400 guns). This very large contract was worth many millions of dollars and you'd think that they would have made an effort to show that they were top drawer and they fell flat on their face.

For what it's worth, my most recent purchase was a Springfield Armory 1911 that I am EXTREMELY happy with. Like the Colt 2000 and the H&K VP-70, the XD is a lemon that turned up in a barrel full of peaches. It doesn't make any sense to buy a pistol, even if it has a lifetime warranty, if it is going to spend more time on a bench in Illinois than in your home.

longbough · 12-06-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilek9

I don't like those, either. For some reason, during the same test that we had the XD's in, we had TONS of FTF and FTL problems with the Glocks. Can't explain it, but I really really really really HATE the trigger safety and the tendency to "bite" the thumb knuckle where it connects to the palm. I understand why Glock shooters shoot with thumbs up.

hmm. I never had that problem ... then again I don't get hammer bite with my BHP either (that's a lie, actually, in the past year, for some reason, I'm getting bitten by my Hi-Power. I can't explain it because I've always gripped it as high as possible without problems). I do like the low profile of the gun that directs the recoil axis closer to the axis of my arm (more "straight back" recoil than "flip"). It could be just a subjective sense but I can manage a very rapid sight realignment with the Glock.

ziadel · 12-07-2005, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilek9

Because it was an official test, I can't really say without violating a non-disclosure agreement,

can you tell me who you signed this non-disclosure agreement with?

I think I have some idea of where you encountered them.

Did the Rugers do better in this test?

MSD · 12-07-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

The trigger might get caught on something as well. I've heard accounts of police officers getting shot by their holstered Glocks without even touching the pistol themselves. Granted, this grip safety thing looks safer, but I personally think that the extra safety switch is a good thing to have around. It's not like you have to use it. How many people use the parking brake on their cars? Not many that I know, but it's still nice to have.

I yell at people for not using the parking brake, but that's for another thread in another forum.

ziadel · 12-07-2005, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

The trigger might get caught on something as well. I've heard accounts of police officers getting shot by their holstered Glocks without even touching the pistol themselves. Granted, this grip safety thing looks safer, but I personally think that the extra safety switch is a good thing to have around. It's not like you have to use it. How many people use the parking brake on their cars? Not many that I know, but it's still nice to have.

NYPD had to redesign their jackets because the zipper tabs kept getting caught in the triggerguard during reholstering and shooting the officer..

and the grip safety, I have mixed feelings on just how useful in preventing a accidental discharge is, but basically, if your holding the gun the safety is deactivated, *shrug*

come to think of it, if society was not so litigous, I'd prolly pin the grip safety on my 1911, so it would always be disengaged.

Chilek9 · 12-08-2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziadel

can you tell me who you signed this non-disclosure agreement with?
I think I have some idea of where you encountered them.
Did the Rugers do better in this test?

Department of Homeland Security. I wouldn't know anything about Rugers, I haven't seen them, if you know what I mean.

ziadel · 12-09-2005, 12:53 PM

I think I have a pretty good idea of whats going on

SteveoTG · 12-13-2005, 10:08 PM

This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun. Be good to your guns.

11-29-2005, 01:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
pixelbend Too hot in the hot tub!	Is this a good buy? My brother in law is a serious gun-head. He is considering getting rid of some of his stock and was showing me a Springfield Arms 40 caliber the other day. It's hammerless with the safety in the grip. Looks to be in really good condition. I could probably pick it up for $350-$400. Is that a good buy? __________________ But I don't want ANY Spam!

11-30-2005, 04:45 PM	#2 (permalink)
ziadel Myrmidon Location: In the twilight and mist.	Are you talking about a Sprigfield Armory XD in .40 S&W? this? __________________ Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

12-01-2005, 05:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
pixelbend Too hot in the hot tub!	Yep, that's the one. __________________ But I don't want ANY Spam!

12-03-2005, 11:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Suave Twitterpated Location: My own little world (also Canada)	Slightly off-topic rant, but is it really so hard to just train yourself to flick a safety switch before firing, instead of having these strange (and seemingly dangerous) Glock-knockoff "safeties"? __________________ "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

12-09-2005, 12:53 PM	#22 (permalink)
ziadel Myrmidon Location: In the twilight and mist.	I think I have a pretty good idea of whats going on __________________ Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read.

12-04-2005, 11:46 AM	#5 (permalink)
longbough Soylent Green is people. Location: Northern California	whatever you get ... shoot it a lot and train with it ... If you train a lot the presence or absence of a manual safety is less of an issue If you don't train enough then the issue of a manual safety is less important than the issue of personal safety

12-05-2005, 02:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
Chilek9 Upright	For what it's worth... I have a LOT of experience with that particular model.....RUN don't walk away from that pistol. It WILL fire out of battery, risking a very nasty case of case blowout. It has a disgusting rate of failure to lock problems and be prepared to replace the lower receiver insert that mates to the barrel ramp (we broke around 40 of them, all guns had less than 5,000 rounds in them). Again, RUN don't walk.

12-05-2005, 02:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
Chilek9 Upright	I don't like those, either. For some reason, during the same test that we had the XD's in, we had TONS of FTF and FTL problems with the Glocks. Can't explain it, but I really really really really HATE the trigger safety and the tendency to "bite" the thumb knuckle where it connects to the palm. I understand why Glock shooters shoot with thumbs up.

12-05-2005, 05:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chilek9 Upright	I was saying that the Glock isn't a bad gun, per se. The XD, however, is a death trap. I fired nine different versions, 1500 rounds each and I'm telling you, that the gun is a disaster. The croatian made parts are cast with poor quality metals and crack and break too easily. The weapon would fire out of battery and we had FREQUENT FTF, FTL and FTE failures.

12-06-2005, 07:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
Chilek9 Upright	Because it was an official test, I can't really say without violating a non-disclosure agreement, I can only say, as an informed consumer, that the XD's submitted ALL failed (over 400 guns). This very large contract was worth many millions of dollars and you'd think that they would have made an effort to show that they were top drawer and they fell flat on their face. For what it's worth, my most recent purchase was a Springfield Armory 1911 that I am EXTREMELY happy with. Like the Colt 2000 and the H&K VP-70, the XD is a lemon that turned up in a barrel full of peaches. It doesn't make any sense to buy a pistol, even if it has a lifetime warranty, if it is going to spend more time on a bench in Illinois than in your home.

12-13-2005, 10:08 PM	#23 (permalink)
SteveoTG Upright	ahem. This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting, this is for fun. Be good to your guns.