Defense against bears
 

Hello, I live in Alaska and do a fair amount of hiking and messing around in the woods. Problem is there are many a bear around here that would enjoy chewing on you if you interupt them. I am looking into purchasing a handgun to carry with me for protection against bears but am not sure what to go with. I have talked to a number of different people and their opinions vary widely; from a very high powered handgun or rifle on down. I am a fairly experienced shooter having been in the military and hunted/shot with friends but have never owned a gun myself. I am leaning towards something smaller (yet with decent stopping power) that I will actually carry with me rather than a heavy weapon that I will be less inclined to want to carry every where I go. Any advice from the TFP experts would be much appreciated... Thanks!

Just FYI the handguns I have experience with are: 9mm, 10mm, .357 & .454

Full size bear, at minimum a .357! Preferably a .50! Anything smaller wont do anything but piss em off. And use solid nose rounds. No hollow points. You need penetration when to those big thick skinned bastards are coming at you.

Ive heard stories of nearly point blank 12gauge slugs not stopping a determined bear.

If you were worried about big cats, I'd say go for a Thunder 5, I've heard good things about them, but for bears, you'll need something bigger and not buckshot. Maybe you shuld check into one of those S&W .500 Revolvers.

I live in Alaska also. I carry a S&W 629, .44 Mag and use the commercial "bear loads". After last years viewing of a rather large griz near Eureka, I am convinced that nothing is strong enough if the bear really wants you. This thing was a VW Beetle with teeth.

When shot placement can be the difference between life and death, I am more apt to recommend that you purchase a gun that you can shoot as much as possible.

As a last thought, a good 12ga with 00 then slugs is carried by more than one guide.

Definitely a rifle over a handgun. Go for .308 or bigger, semi auto, high cap mag, and absolutely reliable. If you legally have access to AP ammo, that might be good for headshots through lots of bone.

When hiking you don't want to be carrying a huge great rifle or shotgun, so you need a handgun with good stopping power. As MrSelfDestruct said, those .500 S&W revolvers really have a huge round which will help a lot, but cost a lot to buy and maintain.
Otherwise, anything from .375 up really would be my recommendation.

unleashed, what's the point in having a gun, if it's just gonna irritate the critter getting ready to eat you?

You should be able to get a decent rifle in a big enough caliber with a couple of magazines worth of ammo for 10-12 pounds. That's not a lot of weight for one of the best bits of survival gear you can have....

http://www.nitroplus.co.jp/pc/rankin...ge/shotgun.jpg

That should do ya.

Revolver, .41 Magnum or greater. Preferable something in the .44M, .480Ruger, .454Casull, .475 Linebaugh range. This thing needs to be able to penetrate into the skull or spine and cause instant death or incapacitation. Rifles are always your best bet, but in your situation a big, powerful revolver is probably more practical. Whatever you do, do NOT use AP or other "standard solid" shot. If you must have a solid, go for something like a Garret Bearhammer, Trophy-bonded Bearclaw, or Monolithic Solid. You need something that will cause massive tissue damage and create maximum frontal surface upon impact.
My personal reccomendation would be one of the big S&W heavy revolvers, such as a Model 29, Model 629, or even the Model 500 if you can afford it. If it's a .41 or .44, load it with Barnes X-Rounds: these will give you the penetration of a solid, but will expand to almost 2' frontal upon impact. In the Model 500, go for the 420-grain softnose projectiles.
The big, BIG thing is this: if a bear charges you, the ONLY workable shots are to the head or the spine above the shoulders. Nothing else will stop that Kodiak NOW. Even if you sever the spine below the shoulders it will keep coming, and it'll still have 2 working paws. Heart/lung/shoulder shots will kill it, but it'll take time you won't have. Whatever weapon you pick needs to be one that you can make those shots with in a HURRY.

I've got no experience hunting bear, but understand that due to the massive nature of their bone structure, a headshot with an expanding projo will generally be ineffective, since it will most likely not penetrate the skull and will irritate the bear. I've seen lead buckshot conform to but not penetrate a deer's skull, which is much thinner than a bear's skull. An icepick through the brainpan is better than a deformed bullet that doesn't penetrate the skull. See what I mean?

Anybody got a legally possessed bear skull we can test this theory out on?

I bought a Marlin Guide Gun (carbine length lever action) in 4570gvt for the express purpose of fending off animal attacks when backpacking. Granted, it's heavier than a pistol, but on the other hand: it's more fun to shoot than a big bore pistol (and therefore more useful to me), and it can be easily slung unlike a pistol (I've never tried carrying a large holstered pistol while hiking/backpacking but I don't imagine I'd want to).


B.

Thanks for the advice guys...
I agree. I think that with most good size bears you are not going to completely stop them with anything that you would want to regularly carry hiking. A man shot a bear a few weeks ago in Anchorage while walking his dog... he got 5 shots into it with a .44 revolver and was able to stop it, but still didn't kill it.. Article

Another reason I was looking into something smaller. I shot my brother in law's .454 that he carrys as a bear gun a few times and after 6 shots or so my arm was so tired I could barely shoot it anymore. Not to mention the fact that it is so heavy I think I would have a hard time drawing it and aiming it fast enough to be effective. AND it would be expensive to practice with.

Maybe I just need to quit complaining and go with something of size (bigger is always better afterall ;) )

Thanks for all of the good advice!

Daswig:
A good controlled-expansion round from a .41 Mag or greater pistol round will most definitely penetrate the skull of a Grizz. Buckshot is much smaller, lighter, slower, and carries less kinetic energy.
Hollowpoint rounds designed for anti-personnel work should most definitely NOT be used, as these will fragment upon contact and will not instantly incapacitate the bear. However, a Barnes X-Round or other suitable heavyweight CE round will do the trick.

A "standard solid" ball-round will not transmit sufficiant energy to instantly kill: a Kodiak about 18 months ago took 7 shots from a 7mm H&H Magnum, including two consecutive headshots, and did not go down: this was later attributed to the fact that the non-expanding rounds did not destroy enough brain tissue to kill instantly. A good expanding round or large-diameter Monolithic Solid is what's needed here. ( "Large-diameter" here means .44 on up. Anything smaller needs to be the hottest CE round you can find ).

My Uncle Robert guided Bear and Caribou hunts in Alaska and BC for 8 years and I contacted him before replying to this. He's dropped 5 Grizz in his days, all with largebore handguns or rifles firing CE and Mono. Solid shot. He won't even touch anything else.

Thanks for the info. I'll still stick with my MG-34....it may be a real pain to carry, but I've yet to ever hear of a bear that got shot in the face with 250 rounds of 7.92 Mauser in 15 seconds and kept coming....

I still think you're NUTS if you try to play with a bear with a handgun, regardless of how big it is.

Sometimes almost as important as the caliber is the gun itself. I own 3 different 44 mags and I handload. The handloads that I'm comfortable with in my Ruger Redhawk I would never run through my Model 29

Another vote here for the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70. I have an Alaskan CoPilot, a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun modified by Jim West of Wild West Guns. It is a takedown, and he is able to do quite a few other great mods. A little pricey, but they are real beauties.

You can peruse his site here: www.wildwestguns.com

The WWG conversions are lovely, but $2000 for a raced up version over a $500 rifle? :eek:

Don't get me wrong, if I had money to burn, I'd be all over it.


B.

LOL! Agreed....and I DID say pricey! Of course, they ARE raced up! He has added more and more options over the years, so there is a bit more there and a tad more variety in price. I can tell you though that the fully "raced up" CoPilot is certainly worth it!

Wouldn't you just want something loud to scare them off? If not .50 Desert Eagle.

My advice is to be elsewhere.

OK I don't have much gun knowledge, but wouldn't a nice little Desert Eagle be enough to stop any bear ? I heard it can stop a car doing 50mph....

A .50AE coming out of a Desert Eagle couldn't stop a human moving at 25mph, let alone a car at 50. Bullets simply don't transfer enough kinetic energy to toss large (ie, bigger than a german shepherd) creature back from its ballistic path. Not outside of cinema, anyway.

:D


B.

Pack a S&W model 629 or 29 can't remember which, with a 4" barrel , it's small and packs a wallop , you don't really want to lug around a rifle, by the time you bring the darn thing to "bear" you'll be bear feed, get yourself a chest rig because you'll have a hard time pulling anything from your hip holster with a huge backpack on ya. I think Taurus makes a good copy of the model 29 in titanium=even lighter weight. Shoot the thing , then run your ass off.

Thanks for the info, I'll read my action/thriller books with a more critical eye when it comes to guns now. I think my friend is gonna take me to a shooting range, which might give me some gun knowledge and a first hand "feel" of how it is to shoot a gun. We're starting with rifles, and from there we go to 12 gauge shottys...sounds like fun.

Yeah, or a .50.

Just keep this in mind:

Bears can climb trees and run damned fast.

If you need to run from a bear, pray that there's a handy hill, run down as fast as you can manage. If you lived right, the bear will start tumbling and you'll live.

That's why I try not to go out without a vehicle. With a vehicle, you can drive faster than the bear, and there's a place to put your pintle-mount so your gun doesn't get too heavy.

Bells! We hike in National Forest frequently and unless you want to run up on them I suggest some dollar store bells attacked to your pack.

Reminds me of the old joke: How can you identify bear scat from other forms of scat? They smell like pepper and are filled with bells.

What he said.

We also tell the people with small auto's to file the front sight off. So it doesn't hurt as bad when the bear shoves it up their ass.

Best anti-bear weapon: http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles/rifles_82A1.htm

Or, if you need something lighter: http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles/rifles_95.htm

There's some good comedy in this thread, including most of what dawsig has posted, but this takes the cake. Could you imagine some asshole, fresh out of the gun shop with his new DE .50, thinking he is a BMF, decides to walk into the street and try to stop the next car to come along? Fucking hysterical. :lol:

Bears: There are plenty of good guns if you're hunting them, not too many that are effective in a defense situation though. You wanna pack something small, easily carried and drawn? No such thing. If you're out in bear country, be noisy. Tie bells to shoe laces, sing while you hike, just make some damn noise. Bears don't like noise. They WILL avoid you if they know you're there. People get attacked by bears when they surprise them. If you must get a gun, I'd say .50 Beowulf on an AR15 platform, 'cause it's so badass.

Well TECHCNICALLY, if you shot the driver in the face through the windshield, you'd have a good chance of stopping it.

I took my Marlin .45/70 into my favorite custom shop about 3 years ago and had them shorten the barrell to 12 inches in shorten the loading tube to the same, I get almost the same muzzle velocity and it's a nice short size. Little bit less accurate out past 50 meters but then... it's .45/70 so I never used it for long shots anyway. nothings beats 500 grain flat noses.

Take along someone who runs slower than you.

OK, sorry, but i did point out that i did NOT know a lot about guns, and that was what I had heard. no need to make fun of my stupidity or anything. well maybe im taking it like that cuz u wrote the word "asshole" or w/e..
lol after second thought maybe i had a rough day and i took your non personal remark as a personal mocking. OK. fine. forget what i said.

There's always hand grenades.... :)

just as long as you realize I was being funny....

After downing moose we usually have one guy stand guard while the other guy dresses the animal. Unfortunatly bears think that gunshots are dinner bells. Black bears are no big deal IMO, it's grizzly's that I'm concerened about.
In Canada you can't carry a hand gun while in the bush, so a big can of bear spray and a rifle is all you can carry. A shotgun with 00 followed buy slugs is a good way to go.

If hiking, make loud noises while paying attention to surrounding sounds is what I do.

My drum teacher who goes hiking a lot told me he used firecrackers(those that pop in series really loudly).
In his own words. "If you're camping and a bear comes around your tent, go out and set one of those firecrackers on fire. 'brarrrarararararrararararaaa'(imitating sound) the fucker 'll run away.. if he comes back, light one on fire and when he runs away, run after him with another one in your hand screaming as loud and wildly as you can, and then light that one on fire and throw it at him."
yeah, he's demented. (he's a drummer)

As a last thought, a good 12ga with 00 then slugs is carried by more than one guide.[/QUOTE]


12 ga is a good idea but I was told 00 slug and bird shot alternating is the best idea. The odds are if your hiking and you run across a bear you will not be able to shoot straight anyway. :eek:

The way you can tell the difference between black bear shit and brown bear shit is because brown bear shit has bells in it. :lol:

The old saying is "if a bear is black you better fight back, If a bear is brown just lie down" :thumbsup:

HOLY SHIT FISHKING IS HERE! :lol:

Birdshot....... did you really say birdshot? :hmm: :crazy: I guess its better than you weee little 9MM. :lol:

Alaska... now there's an awesome place. :)

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0QAAAA...94783515577942

While this is a terrible pic, it is the only one that I have found that was taken on a trip to Eureka in July 2003.

The brown DOT in the center is an Alaskan Brown bear. The animals around him are Caribou. They parted like the Red Sea as he went up the hill. I cannot believe that we did not get a better pic. For reference, caribou are about the size of a decent mule deer. The bears ass is 2 bou wide.

The bottom pic is the herd of bou that he is feeding on. The dog is my long time Desert dog... and his name is....Boo. It used to be Bear but you just can't go around Alaska calling your dog with a name like that.

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0PwA1A...94782635916146

I carry the 9MM to shoot you in the leg..........Sorry better you then me!

Some sort of OO and slug combo.....The odds of a person hitting a bear while hiking and being chased by a jeep with teeth is slim to none. By the time you pull the gun out and realize the amount of shit that is running down your leg it is a little late to try and hit it with slugs or 44 or what ever your carring. :crazy: So do Like I do and shoot your buddy in the leg and run like HELL.......My wheeler is faster then your anyway.

Is it legal to hunt caribou in Alaska?

So, after all the suggestions, have you decide on anything?

Yes. They are quite popular to hunt. I personally don't like the meat and would rather take pics or just watch them. They also make a sound like a herd of frogs and smell a bit like sheep. I hope to post some pics soon in the pics area.

What do sheep smell like????? :confused:

*swallows hook*

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runs upstream...


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runs downstream...


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PHEW! *spits hook* (damn that was close) Fishking will have to answer your question.

deleted

I reckon a Desert E .50 AE will stop any bear that tried to attack you.

Better file down the front sight, so when the bear shoves it up your ass, it'll hurt less...

Anybody, ANYBODY, is absolutely NUTS to take on a bear with a handgun OF ANY CALIBER unless that's your absolute LAST resort. It should only be your last resort if the firing pin in your large-caliber rifle suddenly broke, or something similar happened.

Bear are taken every year with handguns. Rarely are they taken during a charge. I always figured that the greatest danger in the woods was a human, followed closely by a moose. Neither can be trusted. Bears seem to be slightly curious until they realize what you are, they they shit and get. I have been lucky and not put one is a corner or spook it to where it decided its only option was to fight.

I have never had to pull my weapon on an animal, I have had to "let it be known" that I was armed to a human in order to avoid excalation of trouble.

My current goal is to get a 12GA pump to mount on my wheeler for trips to the bush.

Ruger Blackhawk 44 mag :thumbsup:

I say go with a .30-30....

Oh well, I dont know... Im not an expert, but I reckon if you shot a bear with a big hand gun like that, even if it didnt kill him, it'd probably make him run off.

But I would definitely agree that humans are a lot more dangerous than bears.

I used to live in NOrthern Quebec and had a run in with a Polar Bear that came off the river into the town I was working in. Generally Polar Bears (worlds largest land based preditor) don't care much for anything that moves and if you are forced into a situation where you have to shoot it it takes several rounds from a 12 guage to wound it enough to cause it to retreat.

A slew of town folks burned in on their ski-doos all armed and started firing off rounds at the bear. It eventually took enough rounds to cause it to run, they chased it down and kept shooting, eventually it fell through the ice of the river and was presumed to not have survived. I think it was hit probably 5 or 6 times at least by 12 guage and a variety of other hunting rifles.

In Alaska I believe they have a lot of Grizzley's which are notoriously vicous and in fact will kill for the fun of killing. Hand guns won't phase the animal. You need high caliber rifle action.

Some bears will simply ignore or even run from you in contact. Brown or Black bears are easy to frighten off, fire off a few rounds as warning shots and it probably would run. Or just shoot the damn thing and it would take off. Grizzely or Polar Bear, hope you have enough time to reload.

We do not use the term grizzley for the Alaska Brown Bear, also known as a Kodiak. Common thought is that if it is black fight back and if it is brown lay down and play dead. Black bears are usually smaller and more apt to kill on a chance meeting. Brown bears will kill to defend cubs or their dinner. Almost all of the brown bear attacks in this area are over a food source such as a downed moose. A guy just killed a bear on the edge of town with a .44 MAG. It was protecting a moose carcass.

The thing is, if you are just walking or camping, a handgun is a lot more easy to carry than a rifle. I've read people here say a Desert E can kill someone through a wall... if a bullet can go through a masonary and still kill, I recokin it can penetrate the skull of a bear!

Plus I think the a Desert E is semi auto, so it would be a lot easier to fire off a few shots at the thing than if you had a rifle.

The problem with the DE is that it's not a very reliable weapon at ALL. They're famous for their malf-a-minute fickleness; you do NOT want to be doing a tap-rack-bang drill as an 1800-lb Kodiak is barreling down on you. This is why guides ( if they carry a hangun at all; most prefer rifles ) carry a revolver.

Secondly, almost any firearm can shoot through a wall and be capable of killing people on the other side. Even a .22-calibre pistol can accomplish this if it's just shooting through sheetrock, masonite, or plyboard. Now, if it's masonry we're talking about ( brick or stone ) then almost no handgun can do that. The new .500 S&W might be able to penetrate a fair bit, and almost any bullet will -crack- masonry, but penetrate with enough force to kill? Doubtful.

Adam,

A few friendly corrections.

Most guns can kill someone through a wall, when you can specify what kind of wall you are talking about.

If you are talking about a .50AE round, I don't know the penetrating characteristics offhand, but there are several factors that might make it more able to penetrate a concrete wall vs a bear skull (frangibility immediately comes to mind as one factor).

Secondly, a lot of rifles are semiautomatic while a lot of revolvers are double action (i.e. no separate cocking motion needed...just pull the trigger).

That being said, the unreliability of the DE would be my major concern. With a pissed off, wounded bear, you won't have a chance to un-jam your DE, while I get a second shot off with my .44 mag.

So there are really two factors that have to be considered here: the ammunition used (construction, muzzle energy, penetrating characteristics, etc.) and the gun used (reliability, ease of use under extreme pressure, ability to quickly aim and fire, etc.)

All things considered, I can see a short barreled semi-auto shot gun firing slugs as probably being the best option (maybe alternating with 00 shot). After that, I would probably go with a S&W 500 or a .44 mag long barreled revolver.

In all cases, I would stay away from a DE because of the spotty reliability. There's too much at risk if your particular gun happens to jam because it didn't like a particular bullet you were feeding it.

in light of all the brilliant suggestions made here, I have decided to change my recomendation to a frozen red snapper...

I feel this would be more than adequate defense against a bear.


plz take care when handling a loaded frozen red snapper, as they have been known to discharge inadvertantly.


http://www.fish2go.com/redsnapper1.jpg














:D

:lol: ^ He said "red snapper" :lol:

The DE is just as heavy as a light rifle or shotgun, and has several disadvantages:

-The reliability issue - Some reports put the jam rate as high as 20%. If there's a pissed off bear coming at you, you're actually playing with worse odds than if you had a six-shooter and were playing russian roulette.

-The aiming issue - Imagine panicking and trying to draw and fire a 6-pound gun at a moving target while running. Enough said

-The ammo itself - The .50AE round is designed to expand and transfer power very rapidly, and there is a decent chance that it would just bounce off of a bear's skull. Bone is a lot harder than walls that are used for penetration testing, and those tests are always done with a direct hit, not a glancing hit, which is the likely scneario if you're shooting a heavy gun with a lot of recoil while running and trying not to shit your pants. This caliber of bullet is only practical in a rifle.

I know you're a big fan of IMI, and I agree that they make good weapons, but the DE is not a big success. If you're ever in the US and around here, I'll take you to an outdoor firing range and show you a variety of guns, and I think you'll find a pistol that you like better than the DE.

*cough*http://www.imisammo.co.il/com_4.htm*cough*




I still agree with your assessment, but 300gr FMJ's are available... ;)



edit: oh, and I forgot to mention, make sure you have all neccesary permits before carrying your frozen red snapper concealed...

and make sure if you are hiking in a state park that they have not outright banned frozen red snapper....

[QUOTE=ziadel]*cough*http://www.imisammo.co.il/com_4.htm*cough*


I still agree with your assessment, but 300gr FMJ's are available... ;)
[QUOTE]

I know they're available, but I still don't think that it's practical for use in a semi-automatic handgun. I'd take a .45 or a shotgun with slugs and 00 shot, or maybe one of those nice S&W 500 revolvers.

[QUOTE=MrSelfDestruct][QUOTE=ziadel]*cough*http://www.imisammo.co.il/com_4.htm*cough*


I still agree with your assessment, but 300gr FMJ's are available... ;)


I can see the .45 or the shotgun, but the .500?

its the same problem as the DE (minus the reliability) too much oomph for a follow up shot on a charging animal, isn't it?

I've only seen people hold it like a rifle, and that's somehting that isn't easy to do with the DE. Personally, I'm ocnfident that I'd rip off a fingertip or two on the slide if I tried to hold it like anyhting but a pistol.

yeah, holding an auto like that seems like a pretty bad idea IMO, but wtf do I know :lol:

Perfect tool for the job
 

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...-11-2004B.html Compact light and would take down almost anything short of a tank With the exception of the price sounds perfect for your needs but if your lifes on the line money shouldnt be an issue.

I might have missed someone saying this: .500 S&W Magnum

http://www.firearms.smith-wesson.com...sw_activeTab=1

I spent several years in Alaska as a Bush Pilot. I had a friend killed by a big grizzly when the guy with him wounded it with a .375 H&H rifle. I fly fished many places with grizzly present, but made sure that they knew I was there, never got between a cub and its momma and always carried a big rifle. I would hazzard the educated guess that if a grizzly surprises you, no matter what you are armed with....you're dead meat.

I walked up on a fair sized grizzly in his bed one morning. He sat up and was trying to figure out what I was. I took his picture with an Argus C-3 camera with a very metallic sounding shutter. He took off running thru the willows. He looked like a D-8 Caterpiller tractor doing 60 mph. Make lots of metallic sounds while hiking. You won't see many wolves or moose, but you won't see any bears either.

Yup, the grey matter between your ears is the best defence against bears.

Wasn't there show in the US that advocated walking slowly up to them and slapping them smartly on both ears?




;) just kidding. I love those commercials.

Yeah, but it was cancelled when the host was eaten in the first episode ;-)

My personal favorite defense against bears (it does work, every time) is the ability to fly! Unfortunately, I can only manage a foot or so for a moment or two.

.45 caliber Glock, with a 15 or 30 round clip. You aim that sucker at that bears head and started pulling that trigger (which is designed to get rid of loads extremely fast after the first shot) as fast as you can. If that doesn't stop the bear, then shoot your friend in the leg and run like hell! The new glocks also have only internal safetys. As soon as you pull it out and pull the trigger it will fire, up to 30 rounds without putting a new clip in. Thanks to the semi-automatic weapons ban being lifted.

Pfft a hand gun is not what you want for a bear. I'd get a pistol grip shotgun loaded with slugs. Stop a fucking elephant.

mossberg 500
12 ga.
18 1/2" barrel
slugs
i have been on more than one alaskan fly-fishing trips.
this is the gun the guides carry.

I'll echo Worm, we have little black bears in WA- but the professionals here used a shotgun or a carbine. (45/70)

Everyone knows the best defense against bear is to travel with a slower companion, preferable someone you don't really like that well. If not, the 45/70 guide gun.

pfff....give me a good pocket knife and I can take anything down: a rabid squirrel, pig, duck...haha

no really, I would go for the 9mm

lol 9mm.... ha ha ha... good luck. Why don't you just carry a spear while you are at it? Carry a .45 if you have it, and get a 15 round clip for it. Then you might, stress the might, have a chance to scare it off, or 10-15 shots to the head should cause some damage.

Better file the sights off that 9mm....that way it'll hurt less when the bear shoves it up your ass.

Something like this loaded with 12ga. slugs is what I would carry for bear defense.

http://www.tokyohobby.net/shop/image...1100_defen.jpg

powderedmaggot, do you really want to lug that when you are hiking through the woods? No way. Maybe a good gun for the car/home. But the weight and size just isn't practical.

That doesn't look like a very big gun. And now that I think about it, what about an 8 gauge shotgun? I'm sure a slug from one of those bastards would slow a bear down.

An 8-bore is illegal in the US, although you could do it in Canada. 8-Bore is getting into Elephant Gun territory, and if it was firing a slug with the proper charge behind it would be more than capable of handling a bear.
Finding and affording an 8-bore which could handle modern ammo, on the other hand, would be a problem.

Why not carry what rangers carry? I don't think rifles or shorguns are too heavy necessarily. There are ways to carry them without too much inconvenience. I just think a handgun wouldn't be able to stop a bear.

Wouldn't the short baerel shotguns be weaker? I mean the wider spread and all? I'm not too informed on ballistics or gun basics for that matter.

Not necessarily. An 8 bore would be perfectly legal as a Title 1 firearm if the SecTreas found it was to have a sporting purpose. This is why a 12 gauge shotgun isn't illegal, unless it's one like the USAS-12 or Cobray "streetsweeper", which have been found not to have sporting purposes. A side by side 8-bore would most likely be found to have a sporting purpose, but a semi-auto 8-bore with a fifty round magazine capacity wouldn't. Of course, if the semi-auto 8-bore was registered as a DD, it WOULD be legal, but the transfer procedure would be the same as for a MG.

Yes, longer barrels generally result in higher projectile velocity, but when you've got a bear close enough to hit with a shotgun (you'd probably want to use slugs anyway) chances are the extra barrel length wouldn't make a hell of a difference.

Daswig:
What I meant was that an 8-bore shotgun would be illegal for hunting. Blackpowder rifles in the old largebore class ( 10, 8, 6, 4, and 2-bores ) are exempt from CIII regulations.

How different are the laws from Canada to US? How about state-to-state? I imagine Alaska would be a lot different from California (especially LA) and Texas.

For example: If I reside in LA but go up to the Sierra Madres or other areas or to Alaska to hunt or do whatever, which gun laws do I have to follow? Obviously I don't "need" a "bear" gun in LA, (not that it's anyone's business thank you very much 2nd Amendment) but if I live here and hunt elsewhere....

I want to take my dogs out in the wilds of Alaska or the Rockies. Go salmon fishing etc. Except I don't want to compete with the bears. So...in case I run into one, I want to come out alive.

Anyone else do this type of thing?

Seeing some of the suggestions in this thread has inspired me to decide that the obvious solution would be a grende launcher. Sure, you'd have to register it as a destructive device, but you can't be too careful with bears.

red snappers are 10x more destructive than a grenade launcher.....












I can't believe this thread is still going :lol:

Huge differences state-to-state. In some ways, California has stricter laws than Canada does (actually, maybe in all ways). I believe most of the midwestern and southern states have more lax gun laws, and the coastal states (with the densest populations) and north-eastern states tend to have stricter ones. Alaska's gun laws are actually decently strict as well (compared to Texas or whatnot anyway).

You'd have to obey the gun laws of both states if you were to own said gun. You need to obey the laws in California, as that is where it would be stored and from where it would be transported, as well as the gun laws in, say, Alaska, where it would be used. You could likely rent a gun or buy a relatively cheap on in whichever state you were to use it in, and then sell it or return it at the end of your trip. This would allow you to avoid the issues of California law.

Just a side note.....A good Air horn (as in football game standby) works extremely well on black bear, scares the fuck out of 'em.......browns....fuck that. Polar= load ,shoot, bend over, kiss ass goodbye.

Hey Suave,

Thanks for the tip. I was thinking if I go fishing in Alaska, I have to get a permit anyways so I assume they would fill me in on local details.

Also, maybe joining a local gun club or hunting club might be a good idea too. Still gotta find out about my dogs too. Don't want them to become "bear food". *shudder*

Tecoyah,

That air horn sounds like a great idea. But does it really work?
And wouldn't I feel the effects too not to mention my poor dogs! Well, I could always just leave the dogs at home.

Incidentally, has anyone here bagged a bear? If so, what kind of bear, where, with what, how, and did you have it stuffed etc.

The Air horn works very well....I used to take one with me on backpacking trips into the backcountry of the Sierras. I ended up using one three times there....every time the bears simply left immediately. The last time was with a huge sow, and I listened to her break branches as she ran for about five minutes....funny as hell.

I Would Not suggest using this technique on more aggressive bears though ie: Brown/Grizzly/Polar.......probably just piss them off.