HeWhoHasNoName

Garand. Bottom line.
Dead-on accuracy, rugged as pure steel, field strips easy, reliable, one-shot knockdown.

If it wasn't for the size and weight of the 30.06 round, I bet the US Army would be using a modernized version. They even tried to, with the M14. But 7.62 doesn't work with an assault rifle. 10 or 12 round clips, semi-auto, with high personal marksmanship would work with a modern Garand. Not current military doctrine, unfortunately.

combatmedicjen

I'm very partial to my M16A2, but the army will soon be replacing it

Blistex

The Mauser K-98!

Anybody that has shot one knows what I'm talking about when I say that this thing is more "art in practice" than a mechanism or device.

Caphreak

I'd put a vote down for the m1. Balance and accuracy galore.

Its been awhile since i checked this one out, but to that perosn way up there who says the mp5, no one reminded him that the mp5 isnt really a rifle :x

rayman84

Best of all times? That's really decide.

M1 Garand is definately there. Also my next choice would be the M14.

However, what about the modern ones? Like CAR-15 or the new XM-8? I can't tell personally as I never fired any of the CAR-15 or the XM-8

Cheers!

raven12

AK-47....it has been in use for a long time and will continue to be used.

mtsgsd

No! You didn't! You did! You let reality poke it's ugly head into this thread!... Don't you know that the proper etiquette is to pronounce your opinion as fact with no supporting facts or evidence?

For shame sir!

Uh, personaly, I'd like to vote for the M14. Because I said so.

xepherys

the M1 Garand gets my vote as well... but I also enjoy my M16A2 quite a bit. The XM8 will be quite an adjustment when the Army moves to it.

Strange Famous

they're probably a lot cheaper

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solo2020

While all these American guns are great guns.

Nobody here can deny the reliability, knock-down power, and the sheer volume produced of the AK-47

The newer M16/M4 are still prone to jamming, and the small caliber can't really compete with a 7.62 mm cartridge.

shadowalker

M1 Garand would be my number one choice.

number two, you cannot beat the pure stopping power of the barrett M107 (military grade) or just below that in the competition market the 82A1.

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xepherys

While the AK-47 is impressive with it's reliability, it lacks seriously in accuracy. Also, as for caliber, the .223 rounds are designed to NOT blow a giant hole in you. The M16 uses rounds that are meant to maim and not kill as easily. If you're dead, you're one man down. If you're injured, you're one man down and one or two men trying to pull you off of the field. It's all about tactics my friend.

solo2020

The AK47 in the hands of a competant marksmen will do serious damage, there are also several variations of the AK (Dragunov being one of them) that can pick off enemies from 1/2 a mile away.

Are you sure the .223 round was designed to maim and not to kill? The standard NATO Full Metal Jack round that is designed to penetrate and not to mushroom?

But it all comes down to personal preferance. I would compare a AK and a M16 to a Muscle car and a highly tuned import. The AK being loud and heavy and powerful while the M16 being more refined and more prone to failure.

dbcb

StG.44 - The start of the revolution.

xepherys

Almost any weapon in the hands of a competant marksman can be dangerous. Not to brag, but I am an Expert Marksman (so says the Army at least). I've fired an AK47 (not 74) and found it to be innacurate past about 150m or so. Maybe it was just the weapon I fired. *shrug*

Yes, the .223 round is SPECIFICALLY designed to maim and not kill. The maim is an ideal tactical victory on a soldier by soldier basis. Mushrooming rounds are forbidden by the Genvea Convention and sadly enough I think the US is one of only 3 or 4 countries that still abide by those rules (for the most part).

At any rate, the argument is NOT so much against the AK as for the M16... I've fired the thing more times than I can count and have always been fairly please. The one or two times I've had it jam, I've been able to pull SPORTS on it in under 5 seconds and continue firing.

If you're looking just for kick or power, then I'd say a nice .50cal automatic would be more to your liking. Or even a SAW, same .223 but much faster fire rates. It doesn't need to be accurate to sweep a street.

bondiboy66

L1A1 SLR - the Rolls Royce of modern weaponry - sorry but in my humble opinion it beats the M14 hands down.

I liked the M16 when I got issued one (despite the lack of reliability)- appreciate the AK variants and did like the Steyr F88C I used to have issued to me also.

Thats my two bob's worth!

Fett56

I am going to go with the M16. I have an AR-15, and while it does jam often, it takes under five seconds to clear. The gun is just so damn accurate and light.

The garand is great, but too heavy for use in modern combat.

whocarz

I'm so tired of people knocking the AK47 for accuracy. It is NOT an inaccurate rifle. I have fired both an AK47 and M16 derivitave. Both were almost the same in terms of accuracy. However, the AR15 jammed a few times while I was using it, the magazine slipped in the magazine well (not to mention the magazine that fell out of the AR15 the guy next to me had), etc. I've also heard they are a bitch to clean. Out of every AK47 derivitave I have fired, I have only ever had one misfire, and that was from bad ammunition. It is so simple to clean, a monkey could do it. There are no small parts to lose. In the end, I would rather have a gun that fires when I pull the trigger, rather than have a 1.5 MOA gun over a 2 MOA gun any day.

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falcondriver25

My vote goes for... Enfield #4 Mk. 1.

Zeld2.0

I'd put it as a tossup between the Mauser K-98 and the AK-47.

The Mauser K98 is simply an art work - a rifle built 100 years ago that is still ever reliable, ever refined, powerful, and accurate. This is still my favorite among "classics" - simply one of the best.

The AK-47 would be my next choice - its power, accuracy, and reliability all put in one will ensure its place in history. It has been used by more people in more nations and in more wars and battles than any other gun now and it will continue to be used for years. Its a gun you can throw in the mud outside, leave it for months, and come back and still fire when you pull the trigger.

daverino

I agree with Zeld. The Mauser K98 and the AK47 are the two most important rifles in history. The K98 and its variants (including the Springfield '03) dominated the history of warfare for the first fourty years of the twentieth century. The AK-47 for the past fifty. Although the M-16 is a good gun, in many ways better than the AK-47, the profligation of the AK has changed the course of history much more so than the M-16.

cd45

My vote is for the L1A1/FAL. It holds as many rounds as the M14, and is easier to shoot. The M14 was picked over the FAL in the 50's because of politics. The FAL was easier to maintain, shoot, and clean. It is also cheaper than the M14. THE M14 costs over $1000, the FAL goes for about $500-$600 for a rebuilt rifle. My second choice is the AR15. Mine has never jammed and is very accurate. If anything happened, I would still grab my L1A1 first. Just MHO.

Ofirethorn

Okay I am going to go and Screw things Up, Mine are the Thompson (Chicago Typwriter) and the Barrett M1911. Remember when I absolutly has to be there, Nothing says Loving Like Barrett on the Muzzel.

longbough

My FN-FAL Belgian Congo is the best rifle I ever owned:



No other .308 even compares.

tropple

I believe that you are comparing apples and oranges. The M-14 has been out of production for decades. The semi-automatic civilian variant, the M-1A is made by Springfield Armory, and yes, it does cost about a grand, but it is brand new, not rebuilt.

Go score a new FAL and it'll run the same price.

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longbough

True. A new FAL from DSArms is about the best FAL you can get and they run over a grand, easily.
Still, new factory 20rd M1A magazines run about $40-$50 each while new factory FAL mags are so abundant they can be found for less than $10 each. I got mine for $8 each.
Also the FAL is more ergonomically sound IMO - it's not nearly as heavy as the M1A (which is a big plus) and the charging handle is on the left which allows chambering while retaining the weapon with the firing hand. The FAL also has that handy adjustable gas system. The FAL is easier and faster to field strip.
The MiA has somewhat better iron sights than the FAL.
Both are fine, reliable weapons but the FAL is what I favor.
(Besides, the FAL has that pistol-grip that intimidates the tree-huggers)

arawn

I'm going to have to say FAl/L1A1 as well, although it might be a toss-up against a G3.


I've got a DSA FAL (or rather SA58) and it's an amazing rifle.

I slapped a 4-14x springfield on it with an Armalite mount and found myself unable to go back to shooting a 223. Even with the iron sights at more practical ranges it's just a joy to shoot.


B.

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longbough

Arawn, I've known folks who have owned G3s and sold them in favor of the FAL. I've never handled a G3 but I'm told the delayed blowback makes it unpleasant to shoot. For the quality of materials and manufacture I've been told the HK is way overpriced. But then I've never handled one.
The G3 was only developed as an alternative to the FAL when Germany failed to get the license from Belgium in the 1950s.
In 1959 Germany bought the manufacturing license for the Spanish CETME rifle and transferred it to the Heckler und Koch (HK) company to produce the first G3 rifles. But many still prefer the FAL.

BTW - which SA58 did you get? I got the DSA 18" Belgian Congo (above).

arawn

I've only owned one G-3 (clone on a crappy receiver) but my brother had an SR9 and I loved to shoot it.

My DSA is a medium contour stainless full length. It's got the pinned muzzle break (from before they simply milled them into the barrel ends) and the carbonfiber freefloat handguard (which I don't see available anymore either). Steyr internals, that DSA extreme duty dust cover/mount and all the rail surfaces were handlapped by the gunsmith who assembled and headspaced it because he took so long in getting it back to me (his wife had a baby, I wasn't going to begrudge him his priorities).

It 's like the rifle equivelant of a fine watch and I'll be unlikely to ever outshoot it.

I was actually selling it but I've decided I just can't bear to part with it.


So some others can go, but the FAL stays.

That's an interesting bit of history, by the way, about Gemany and the license issue. I had no idea, but it's not that surprising. The FAL is a robust design.


B.

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Taowulf

The Mauser was the peak of mass produced bolt action. The Garand gets the semi-auto nod.

It just isn't fair unless you break it down into catagories.

longbough

Yeah. I'd keep it if I were you.
A while back my buddy in California sold off his AR. Now he can't purchase one without moving to another state... sad.
That's one reason I'll never sell any of my guns. I keep everything.

pmkuon

AK47. Most used weapon in the world.

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Anxst

You have to remember that just as every shooter is built differently, the greatest rifle of all time is going to be different. For me, for instance, it's the Steyr AUG. I love to fire mine.

As far as what is the best overall for the most people, I would have to say the FN FAL. It took the good things from a number of rifles that had been produced in the past and included them all in one rifle.

The only reason the AK-47 has seen so much use is it is incredibly reliable and incredibly cheap. They are not fun to fire. They are not especially accurate. But you can buy crates of them for cheap, roll them all in river silt, and 95% of them will still fire. The ones that won't fire can be stripped down, reassembled, and you can use one or two for parts to replace anything that went bad on what you had. Ta da!

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tritium

Any 30/30 lever action rifle...

In all seriousness...

H&K g3sg1 and H&K psg1

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arawn

Oh man, have you ever shot a PSG-1?
Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing machine.
It's also an 18lb machine with no iron sights that ran $10,000 at issue and only went up in price.




B.

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daswig

It depends on how you define rifle. The SMLE doesn't suck too badly. The K-98 is a fine, fine gun. The FN FAL is sweet, everybody should own a half dozen. The AK-47 has some good points and some very, VERY bad points. The M-16/AR-15 rifles are toys. Personally, if I had to pick just one rifle, I'd go "heavy"...and stick with the MG-34. It's select fire, it's in a decent caliber, and when properly tuned it runs like a scalded ape. It even has a nice handy bipod.

manimal

I'd go with the M14.

NavySEAL

The STG-44 from WWII, It was also the first automaitc rifle and then later they made the automat kalashnikov which looks similar to the STG-44. I think the Germans made all of the best weaponry like the world's first jet powered aricraft(Me 262); Sadly they started using the STG-44 later in the war then at the begining. They had also invented a saucer type of aircraft toward the very ending of the war after the jet. Just image if the war had lasted a little more long, they might have improved everything and mass produced them or maybe even thing of new inventions.

Me 262 -

STG44 -

wvmoose

Love my G3A3, but gotta go with the esteemed Garand.

tritium

No, but I'd like to. Got a spare one laying around? :P

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