Would you leave your weapon unattended? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

poof · 12-18-2003, 10:31 PM

Just your thoughts on this subject.

Reference this thread

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=38660

Moonduck · 12-19-2003, 07:47 AM

As I said in the other thread, your state might take your CCW for leaving your weapon unnattended, but the Federal Govt may do worse if you carry your gun into a post office, onto a military base, into an airport etc.

I'd rather take a slim chance that my car will be stolen (how often has that hapened to you?) than willfully break a Federal law by carrying somewhere that I'm not supposed to.

hrdwareguy · 12-19-2003, 09:20 AM

Here are the laws from Oklahoma on CCW:

Quote:

BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS
Nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

Also

Quote:

UNLAWFUL CARRY IN CERTAIN PLACES
A. It shall be unlawful for any person in possession of a valid concealed handgun license issued pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, to carry any concealed handgun into any of the following places:
1. Any structure, building, or office space which is owned or leased by a city, town, county, state, or federal governmental authority for the purpose of conducting business with the public;
2. Any meeting of any city, town, county, state or federal officials, school board members, legislative members, or any other elected or appointed officials;
3. Any prison, jail, detention facility or any facility used to process, hold, or house arrested persons, prisoners or persons alleged delinquent or adjudicated delinquent;
4. Any elementary or secondary school, or technology center school property;
5. Any sports arena during a professional sporting event;
6. Any place where pari-mutuel wagering is authorized by law; and
7. Any other place specifically prohibited by law.
B. For purposes of paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6 of subsection A of this section, the prohibited place does not include and specifically excludes the following property:
a. any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by a city, town, county, state, or federal
governmental authority,
b. any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, by any entity offering any professional sporting event which is open to the public for admission, or by any entity engaged in pari-mutuel wagering authorized by law,
c. any property adjacent to a structure, building, or office space in which concealed weapons are prohibited by the provisions of this section, and
d. any property designated by a city, town, county, or state, governmental authority as a park, recreational area, or fairgrounds;
provided nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed to authorize any entry by a person in possession of a concealed handgun into any structure, building, or office space which is specifically prohibited by the provisions of subsection A of this section.
Nothing contained in any provision of this subsection shall be construed to authorize or allow any person in control of any place described in paragraph 1, 2, 3, 5 or 6 of subsection A of this section to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person in lawful possession of a concealed handgun license from possession of a handgun allowable under such license in places described in paragraph a, b, c or d of this subsection.
C. Any person violating the provisions of subsection A of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00). Any person convicted of violating the provisions of this section may be liable for an administrative fine of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.
D. No person in possession of any concealed handgun pursuant to the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act shall be authorized to carry the handgun into or upon any college or university property, except as provided in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, the following property shall not be construed as prohibited for persons having a valid concealed handgun license:
1. Any property set aside for the use of any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, provided the handgun is carried or stored as required by law and the handgun is not removed from the vehicle without the prior consent of the college or university president while the vehicle is on any college or university property;
2. Any property authorized for possession or use of handguns by
college or university policy; and
3. Any property authorized by the written consent of the college or university president, provided the written consent is carried with the handgun and the valid concealed handgun license while on college or university property. The college or university may notify the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation within ten (10) days of a violation of any provision of this subsection by a licensee. Upon receipt of a written notification of violation, the
Bureau shall give a reasonable notice to the licensee and hold a hearing. At the hearing upon a determination that the licensee has violated any provision of this subsection, the licensee may be subject to an administrative fine of Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) and may have the concealed handgun license suspended for three (3) months. Nothing contained in any provision of this subsection shall be construed to authorize or allow any college or university to establish any policy or rule that
has the effect of prohibiting any person in lawful possession of a concealed handgun license from possession of a handgun allowable under such license in places described in paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 of this subsection. Nothing contained in any provision of this subsection shall be construed to limit the authority of
any college or university in this state from taking administrative action against any student for any violation of any provision of this subsection.
E. The provisions of this section shall not apply to any peace officer or to any person authorized by law to carry a pistol in the course of employment. Private investigators with a firearms authorization shall be exempt from this section when acting in the course and scope of employment.

Also you can not carry anywhere where liquor is the primary source of income, and of course you can not carry if you are drinking.

As a result of these laws, yes, I have left my handgun unattended in my vehicle while in one of the above mentioned places.

blockmaan2000 · 12-19-2003, 10:27 AM

I'll put it this way... If you do your part and keep you mouth shut, who will know that you're carrying??

block

MrTuffPaws · 12-19-2003, 12:03 PM

True block, after all, that is the meaning of concealed, but I would not try to conceal in anyplace with military, or federal persons. They are trained to spot such.

BTW, there are gun safes for your cars. The mount to the floor under your seat.

hrdwareguy · 12-19-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blockmaan2000
I'll put it this way... If you do your part and keep you mouth shut, who will know that you're carrying??

block

So I guess you are saying that concealed weapons laws are great because you can leagally carry a gun to protect yoursef. On the other hand, screw the law that gives you permission to carry when it comes to places you can't carry.

Sounds a bit one sided to me.

poof · 12-19-2003, 03:33 PM

The point was not ccw. The point is, would you leave your pistol unattended!

WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT OF YOUR REACH?

Moonduck · 12-20-2003, 01:05 AM

Back up a second. You are asking if someone would leave ther weapon out of reach. Does this mean that you carry every weapon you own, everywhere you go? You are either radically exagerrating, don't own any weapons, don't go into any place that prohibits carry, or simply don't mind breaking federal, state, and local law. Which is it?

As an aside, ignoring carry, do you sleep with your weapon? All of your weapons? You seem to imply that a person should have their weapon/s within reach at all times, what about taking a shower? Going swimming? Air travel?

homerhop · 12-20-2003, 10:32 AM

I can understand what you are saying.
Here in Ireland the gun laws are very tight.We cannot have handguns, so the conceal and carry is not an issue.
The cops here are pushing hard for every gun owner to have a gun safe before they will renew a licence or grant a first licence but there are some legal issues to be sorted out first.
when I have my guns in the car they are locked in the trunk with a trigger lock fitted.
This is not a reflection on the gun owner whos car was robbed,but in this day and age you cannot be careful enough, and cases like this is just more fuel for the anti-gun brigade.

poof · 12-23-2003, 01:11 PM

<i>You are asking if someone would leave ther weapon out of reach. Does this mean that you carry every weapon you own, everywhere you go?</i>

Oh my! Should have spelled out the rules for those that can't grasp the gist of a conversation or are incapable of common sense.

I was not including weapons secured in a safe or other controlled area. I am talking about leaving guns in a non-secured area; i.e. under the seat of your car, under your mattress, etc.

Is the concept of controlling the use of a weapon beyond you? If a person shoots someone with a readily available gun that you own and are responsible for in Arizona, you may be held responsible.

Think about this.

If a child kills a sibling, cousin, friend, anybody, with a gun you left available. <b>You can be held responsible!</b>

So is it too hard to grasp the concept of securing your weapon?

Must your macho ass tote a gun under your drivers seat, yet not maintain control over it at all times?

Give me a break. The sorry sack that had his pistol (piece? what is this, the Godfather?) stolen is a provider for the guns thieves and junkies use. He should be embaressed to tell the tale.

He is also the kind of macho gun owner we all need to be scared of.

shakran · 12-23-2003, 05:59 PM

From where I sit, if you own a weapon, you are responsible for it. There is NO excuse for losing it. If you stuff a pistol under your car seats, then you KNOW that you're taking the risk that it will disappear. That risk is unacceptable. Buy an automotive gun safe or don't carry the gun around.

I know I know "gee, I don't have the money to do that or I don't want to drill holes in my car etc etc etc" excuses excuses. If you buy a car you're expected to buy tires so it won't lose control and veer into other cars. If you buy a dog, you're expected to buy it food. If you buy a gun, you're expected to buy whatever it takes to make sure that the weapon does not fall into the wrong hands. If you only keep the gun at home, then you don't need a car safe. If you carry it around, you need a car safe, AND you need to take steps to make sure the car itself is not stolen. If you can't handle that level of responsibility, you can't handle owning a gun.

Excercise your supposed right to bear arms all you want, but do it responsibly so I don't get my ass shot off with your stolen gun.

Moonduck · 12-23-2003, 11:52 PM

Are you capable of posting in a conversational tone? I grasped the gist perfectly fine. You made a two-line post whose second line was "WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT OF YOUR REACH?". First off, that all caps things goes a long way towards making you sound sane and rational. Second, you really didn't support that line, nor have you supported much of what you say. You say the conversation isn't about CCW, yet you don't attempt to define any sort of parameters.

If you are trying to convince people to properly secure their weapons, there are far more effective ways than the tactics you're using now. If you simply have a burning desire to be harsh in an otherwise friendly forum, I feel sorry for you.

And you've never heard a weapon called a "carry piece" before? Do you have a CCW? It's common parlance.

shakran · 12-24-2003, 08:16 AM

hehe. I'll second Moonduck, Poof. Ya might wanna tone it down a little bit. And as far as the macho thing goes, yeah, a lot of the CCW people are doing it because of the macho thing, but a lot of them are doing it because they genuinely feel the need for protection. You shouldn't go off and assume that Moonduck falls into the macho category. He probably feels the need to protect himself. It is getting close to duck season after all

Moonduck · 12-24-2003, 09:18 AM

You got that right, Shak. Damn wingshooters and their shotguns =)

I've had a CCW for quite a while and rarely carry. Yeah, there is the school of thought that says that you should carry constantly if you are going to carry at all. I'm not in that school of thought (not macho enough, I guess), and, with the job I have, I've got too many instances where I have to enter a place that I cannot carry legally in (post offices, police records depts, the myriad military bases locally, etc). While I may argue with Poof, I don't like leaving my carry piece (fuggedaboudit) in my vehicle unless forced.

Still, again due to the job I have, I find myself occassionally going to some very ROUGH areas. Days like that, I like the option of concealed carry.

hrdwareguy · 12-24-2003, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by poof
The point was not ccw. The point is, would you leave your pistol unattended!

WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT OF YOUR REACH?

But with individual business being able to decide if they want concealed weapons on their premisis or not does make it necessary to leave ones pistol in their car while in said premisis. Therefore, talking about ccw is part of the discussion.

DEI37 · 01-11-2004, 11:39 AM

If I'm out on a range with friends, yeah, we'll leave 'em at the bench, and that kind of thing. But, I don't think that is the point of this thread. I do have my .22 & 12-ga in the trunk of one of my cars, simply because I'm too lazy to bring them in once deer season was over. And NO, I didn't use the .22 for deer. I'm not that silly. Only me, my wife, and my brother in law know that they are there, and aren't about to go get 'em. Unless my wife was bringing them in to the house.

If I got a CCW, if I had to go in a place where I couldn't take it, it would stay locked in a secure location, with an empty chamber and clip. Once I got back to the car, sure, I'd consider reloading it, but I dunno...first off, I don't have a handgun yet, nor do I have a CCW, so it's not a bridge I've had to cross yet.

Slims · 01-11-2004, 09:50 PM

Yes, I sometimes do leave my weapon out of my reach (as in inside my car) while I am in a restaurant or whatnot.

I do not, however, leave it unattended or out of my supervision.

When I am carrying and I need to go somewhere that I can't, the weapon gets hidden in my vehicle (don't ask where) and my vehicle is securely locked. You won't find my weapon unless you have already stolen my car and have time to give it a thorough inspection.

I also make sure to park my vehicle in a location where I can keep an eye on it. I really doubt anyone will be able to get to my weapon without alerting me first. A car thief is not going to try to steal the car parked in a public parking spot in front of a window full of diners. Especially not a securely locked vehicle with an alarm.

I wouldn't leave my weapon unattended in a vehicle overnight, or in a remote area where I can't keep track of it. The odds of a burglery are too high. If I were really worried that the above mentioned car theft were likely, I would probably just carry despite the laws.

Oh, and by the way, I believe that it is actually legal to carry in post offices. I can't remember why though....I think there was some sort of exception specifically for post offices, or they are run by the state or something. I will try to look it up tommorrow to clarify things.

DE137: There is really no point to unloading your weapon before leaving it in your car. Unloading and reloading your weapon just makes for two more opportunities to have an accidental discharge. If a bad guy steals your gun, they will be able to produce/acquire ammunition and a magazine for it.

blockmaan2000 · 01-12-2004, 12:33 PM

It kind of goes along with what I was saying earlier. I would rather have my pistol on me ( I do carry in places that state "no concealed" weapons sometimes, just not in any place I'll get arrested!!) than somewhere it can be stolen. I think those people who leave them out in the open, including on their nightstands, are just asking for trouble. I don NOT carry on military bases (my work takes me there sometimes) or in gov't buildings, but I'm game just about anywhere else. If I can't carry concealed to some place that servers alcohol, I just open carry. It's not illegal in my state, and most people think I'm a sherrif or something. Rarely have I been questioned and never asked to leave.

block

whiskeybravo · 02-10-2004, 01:31 PM

never

12-18-2003, 10:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
poof Psycho	Would you leave your weapon unattended? Just your thoughts on this subject. Reference this thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...threadid=38660

12-20-2003, 10:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
homerhop Insane Location: ÉIRE	I can understand what you are saying. Here in Ireland the gun laws are very tight.We cannot have handguns, so the conceal and carry is not an issue. The cops here are pushing hard for every gun owner to have a gun safe before they will renew a licence or grant a first licence but there are some legal issues to be sorted out first. when I have my guns in the car they are locked in the trunk with a trigger lock fitted. This is not a reflection on the gun owner whos car was robbed,but in this day and age you cannot be careful enough, and cases like this is just more fuel for the anti-gun brigade. __________________ its evolution baby

12-23-2003, 01:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
poof Psycho	<i>You are asking if someone would leave ther weapon out of reach. Does this mean that you carry every weapon you own, everywhere you go?</i> Oh my! Should have spelled out the rules for those that can't grasp the gist of a conversation or are incapable of common sense. I was not including weapons secured in a safe or other controlled area. I am talking about leaving guns in a non-secured area; i.e. under the seat of your car, under your mattress, etc. Is the concept of controlling the use of a weapon beyond you? If a person shoots someone with a readily available gun that you own and are responsible for in Arizona, you may be held responsible. Think about this. If a child kills a sibling, cousin, friend, anybody, with a gun you left available. <b>You can be held responsible!</b> So is it too hard to grasp the concept of securing your weapon? Must your macho ass tote a gun under your drivers seat, yet not maintain control over it at all times? Give me a break. The sorry sack that had his pistol (piece? what is this, the Godfather?) stolen is a provider for the guns thieves and junkies use. He should be embaressed to tell the tale. He is also the kind of macho gun owner we all need to be scared of. Last edited by poof; 12-23-2003 at 01:17 PM..

01-11-2004, 11:39 AM	#16 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	If I'm out on a range with friends, yeah, we'll leave 'em at the bench, and that kind of thing. But, I don't think that is the point of this thread. I do have my .22 & 12-ga in the trunk of one of my cars, simply because I'm too lazy to bring them in once deer season was over. And NO, I didn't use the .22 for deer. I'm not that silly. Only me, my wife, and my brother in law know that they are there, and aren't about to go get 'em. Unless my wife was bringing them in to the house. If I got a CCW, if I had to go in a place where I couldn't take it, it would stay locked in a secure location, with an empty chamber and clip. Once I got back to the car, sure, I'd consider reloading it, but I dunno...first off, I don't have a handgun yet, nor do I have a CCW, so it's not a bridge I've had to cross yet. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

01-11-2004, 09:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Yes, I sometimes do leave my weapon out of my reach (as in inside my car) while I am in a restaurant or whatnot. I do not, however, leave it unattended or out of my supervision. When I am carrying and I need to go somewhere that I can't, the weapon gets hidden in my vehicle (don't ask where) and my vehicle is securely locked. You won't find my weapon unless you have already stolen my car and have time to give it a thorough inspection. I also make sure to park my vehicle in a location where I can keep an eye on it. I really doubt anyone will be able to get to my weapon without alerting me first. A car thief is not going to try to steal the car parked in a public parking spot in front of a window full of diners. Especially not a securely locked vehicle with an alarm. I wouldn't leave my weapon unattended in a vehicle overnight, or in a remote area where I can't keep track of it. The odds of a burglery are too high. If I were really worried that the above mentioned car theft were likely, I would probably just carry despite the laws. Oh, and by the way, I believe that it is actually legal to carry in post offices. I can't remember why though....I think there was some sort of exception specifically for post offices, or they are run by the state or something. I will try to look it up tommorrow to clarify things. DE137: There is really no point to unloading your weapon before leaving it in your car. Unloading and reloading your weapon just makes for two more opportunities to have an accidental discharge. If a bad guy steals your gun, they will be able to produce/acquire ammunition and a magazine for it. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

12-19-2003, 07:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	As I said in the other thread, your state might take your CCW for leaving your weapon unnattended, but the Federal Govt may do worse if you carry your gun into a post office, onto a military base, into an airport etc. I'd rather take a slim chance that my car will be stolen (how often has that hapened to you?) than willfully break a Federal law by carrying somewhere that I'm not supposed to.

12-19-2003, 10:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
blockmaan2000 Crazy	I'll put it this way... If you do your part and keep you mouth shut, who will know that you're carrying?? block

12-19-2003, 12:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
MrTuffPaws Addict Location: NorCal	True block, after all, that is the meaning of concealed, but I would not try to conceal in anyplace with military, or federal persons. They are trained to spot such. BTW, there are gun safes for your cars. The mount to the floor under your seat.

12-19-2003, 03:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
poof Psycho	The point was not ccw. The point is, would you leave your pistol unattended! WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT OF YOUR REACH?

12-20-2003, 01:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Back up a second. You are asking if someone would leave ther weapon out of reach. Does this mean that you carry every weapon you own, everywhere you go? You are either radically exagerrating, don't own any weapons, don't go into any place that prohibits carry, or simply don't mind breaking federal, state, and local law. Which is it? As an aside, ignoring carry, do you sleep with your weapon? All of your weapons? You seem to imply that a person should have their weapon/s within reach at all times, what about taking a shower? Going swimming? Air travel?

12-23-2003, 05:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	From where I sit, if you own a weapon, you are responsible for it. There is NO excuse for losing it. If you stuff a pistol under your car seats, then you KNOW that you're taking the risk that it will disappear. That risk is unacceptable. Buy an automotive gun safe or don't carry the gun around. I know I know "gee, I don't have the money to do that or I don't want to drill holes in my car etc etc etc" excuses excuses. If you buy a car you're expected to buy tires so it won't lose control and veer into other cars. If you buy a dog, you're expected to buy it food. If you buy a gun, you're expected to buy whatever it takes to make sure that the weapon does not fall into the wrong hands. If you only keep the gun at home, then you don't need a car safe. If you carry it around, you need a car safe, AND you need to take steps to make sure the car itself is not stolen. If you can't handle that level of responsibility, you can't handle owning a gun. Excercise your supposed right to bear arms all you want, but do it responsibly so I don't get my ass shot off with your stolen gun.

12-23-2003, 11:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Are you capable of posting in a conversational tone? I grasped the gist perfectly fine. You made a two-line post whose second line was "WOULD YOU LEAVE YOUR WEAPON OUT OF YOUR REACH?". First off, that all caps things goes a long way towards making you sound sane and rational. Second, you really didn't support that line, nor have you supported much of what you say. You say the conversation isn't about CCW, yet you don't attempt to define any sort of parameters. If you are trying to convince people to properly secure their weapons, there are far more effective ways than the tactics you're using now. If you simply have a burning desire to be harsh in an otherwise friendly forum, I feel sorry for you. And you've never heard a weapon called a "carry piece" before? Do you have a CCW? It's common parlance.

12-24-2003, 08:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	hehe. I'll second Moonduck, Poof. Ya might wanna tone it down a little bit. And as far as the macho thing goes, yeah, a lot of the CCW people are doing it because of the macho thing, but a lot of them are doing it because they genuinely feel the need for protection. You shouldn't go off and assume that Moonduck falls into the macho category. He probably feels the need to protect himself. It is getting close to duck season after all

12-24-2003, 09:18 AM	#14 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	You got that right, Shak. Damn wingshooters and their shotguns =) I've had a CCW for quite a while and rarely carry. Yeah, there is the school of thought that says that you should carry constantly if you are going to carry at all. I'm not in that school of thought (not macho enough, I guess), and, with the job I have, I've got too many instances where I have to enter a place that I cannot carry legally in (post offices, police records depts, the myriad military bases locally, etc). While I may argue with Poof, I don't like leaving my carry piece (fuggedaboudit) in my vehicle unless forced. Still, again due to the job I have, I find myself occassionally going to some very ROUGH areas. Days like that, I like the option of concealed carry.

01-12-2004, 12:33 PM	#18 (permalink)
blockmaan2000 Crazy	It kind of goes along with what I was saying earlier. I would rather have my pistol on me ( I do carry in places that state "no concealed" weapons sometimes, just not in any place I'll get arrested!!) than somewhere it can be stolen. I think those people who leave them out in the open, including on their nightstands, are just asking for trouble. I don NOT carry on military bases (my work takes me there sometimes) or in gov't buildings, but I'm game just about anywhere else. If I can't carry concealed to some place that servers alcohol, I just open carry. It's not illegal in my state, and most people think I'm a sherrif or something. Rarely have I been questioned and never asked to leave. block

02-10-2004, 01:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
whiskeybravo Upright	never