longbough

1. Surefire 120 lumen flashlight - palmsized and very handy even in broad daylight
2. Benchmade mini-AFCK - this is a well made, practical folding knife. Can be deployed with one hand. Or can be an effective striking tool even when closed.
3. Glock 23 .40 - great gun in a pinch. Got mine in arm's reach
4. My defensive handgun training from Frontsight in Nevada - priceless information in every 4 day class I've taken.
5. Comfy shoes for running like hell
6. My dog

BTW. Not to flog a dead horse but I have to add my views on the whole "martial arts" issue.
It's a terrible mistake to underestimate the "common" street punk. The most experienced martial artists know that no 2 street-fights are alike. I have studied different styles of marial arts for years and have yet to meet an expert who thinks he/she could take a knife or gun away from an opponent every time.
I'm not saying that martial arts is useless, but it doesn't make anyone a superman. I have studied martial arts in the past fanatically from some very good instructors - But if someone posed an imminent threat to my family or loved ones I'd shoot that person.

bigdaddy19

For concealed carry, I use a Glock 27. Fits inside the pants and is easy to cover up. The gun also has a very nice feel to it. I also carry a Glock 22, but I actually shoot better with the 27 til 25 yards.

izin

1) My awareness / brain
2) A good compact 1911 (personal pref based on performance, ammo, familiarity, size, shape, weight, compatability with other holsters, availability of speciality holsters etc)
3) PPK with the right ammo
4) Black Widow 22 mag if deep concealment was priority 1

/agree debaser

Moonduck

Heh, I'd assumed both that the poster was asking for concealed firearms, and that anyone reading this thread would assume such things as running shoes, a good flashlight, and awareness. Those all go without saying IMO.

As to MA vs CCW, MA types get defensive about MA as soon as firearms people get defensive about guns. The smart move is to learn from both disciplines. The question about the gun to head was particularly pointed. The options were to go for your gun, or to use MA to disarm the attacker and then assumedly thrash him. I'd rather use a good disarm drill (clear the body, control the weapon, remove the weapon) and then draw my CCW and control the situation after.

Combined Arms, it ain't just a military concept.

(As an aside, if you carry, a bit of HtH training is a must. NOTHING will save your life faster in a serious tussle more assuredly than even some minimal retention techniques. It may not seem easy for you to disarm someone else, but it doesn't seem so hard for them to disarm you, if you know what I mean. A bit of retention training is hugely assistive should you get into a close-range confrontation. Let's face it, your gun is worse than useless if it is in the bad guy's hands.)

ziadel

M1911-A1 with Speer 230gr Gold-Dot's
and 2 spare mags..

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2sheds

1. glock 19
2. j-frame revolover (340pd)

that's about it.

as an alternative to the ppk/s - consider a makarov in 9x18. more power in basically the same package, and very reliable.

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MooseMan3000

Debaser and Lebell... you forget ninjas.

In regards to the original thread, I can't speak to carrying a handgun concealed, as I never have. For hand to hand weapons, though:
1) Anything nearby (stick, trash can, child, etc)
2) Small, double sided, straight sheath knife. It comes out quick and it's easy to use. Something like the one on the left here:

3) A smaller stiletto, or a boot knife... like the one on the right in that image. Only reason I prefer the thumb knife mentioned before is that it's easier to conceal.
4) My keys, or a pen that I always carry. They'll do in a pinch.
And of course,
5) My ninja skills. But that pretty much goes without saying.

daswig

Ya know, for a "concealed in plain sight" weapon, I've always been partial to trucks. There's not a whole lot my "Deuce and a Half" can't extracate me from....

daswig

Given a choice between a .45 or a .380 or a .32 (7.92 is "8mm mauser", a full-sized rifle round that'd break your wrist in a handgun) I'd take the .45. Given a choice between a .380 or a .32 and a rock or bare hands, I'd take the .32 or .380.

longbough

Absolutely correct.
If you attend a professional defensive handgun course (not just the local range course) - you are taught close quarters, contact shooting and gun retention along with everything else.

Suave

I've seen the diameter listed as 7.92 though (maybe 7.92 short?).

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F-18_Driver

Glock 27. Don't always carry it, but I almost always have a knife on me.

One thing that 7 years of martial arts taught me is not to let a potential threat get too close. That, and I'm not interested in trying to disarm a knife-wielding person.

I have drawn on someone ONCE. He was mouthy, thereby giving me plenty of warning before he got too close. By the time he did, and he saw my Glock, he shut up and went away. I like that a lot better than if I'd actually had to fire.

OTOH, In regard to martial arts, some of the baddest guys I know look slim to the point of making you think they're wimps. No matter how much training they have, their appearance isn't going to scare anyone away.

DUNIYATFP

Glock 19 all the way. It is light and with the right concealed hoster no one can tell you have one. I carry one everyday. You get used to it real fast. Glock 26 or any baby Glocks are good to, but I think are hard to shoot since I have such large hands.

For holsters use a Galco there is no better option.

Here are 2 good options for everyday use
http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp...=2678&GunID=47 (Slob look, no shirt tucked in or sweatshirt, etc.)

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp...=2102&GunID=47 (Dress pants or suit with shirt tucked in)

Strange Famous

Wow... I couldnt come up with five... in real life when Im out on the street the only weapon I have is my house/car keys.... which isnt much, but if someone attacks me I could hurl them in their face (not much good against a gun, but not many people in Ipswich carry guns), or else wrap the keys around my fist and throw a punch... I've never done that in though!

If I could choose any gun to be my conceal and carry weapon, assuming it was legal and I felt I needed a gun (like if I was camping out or something and needed protection from wild animals, or lived in a really bad area maybe)....

I'd have a IMI Jericho 941

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bigwolf

top 5 conceled carry guns.

1. Bersa thunder .380 (what can I say its a nice gun)
2. Ruger sp101 hammerless
3. sig 229
4. Ruger p89
5. Desert eagle .50 (ok it would be concelable on say SHAQ!)

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tiltedbc

I trained in combat Karate for years and consider that to be my best weapon, mainly because it builds up your body and you also learn how to throw off the vibe of being tough.

Otherwise, I love my cheap little Tombraider switchblade. Short enough to still be considered a "legal" pocket knife but super quick to pull out of a pocket and open up for maximum effect.

moosenose

I'm not a Secret Ninja Master. Consequently, I carry guns.

moosenose

7.92 "short" is the 7.92 Kurz round for the Sturmgewehr Stg44/MP43-45 series of weapons. That's an entirely different kettle of fish from the standard 7.92 patronen...

moosenose

1. Glock 19, Trijicon sights, 3.5 pound trigger pull.
2. CZ-75, non-import, produced prior to 1990.
3. AMT .380 "backup". Quality control varied on these from outstanding to horrendous. Mine is outstanding. Once, while being patted down by a cop during a training exercise, he hit the handle of it, and thought it was a zippo lighter.
4 and 5. For the Desert Eagle crowd: an M2 Iver Johnson "enforcer" and a Bushmaster "armgun". The "Enforcer" is a pistol gripped M2 carbine that was shortened to approximately huge pistol size. Pic here: http://www.wapahani.com/enforcer.jpg I prefer the ones with the vertical foregrip, it really makes a difference on full auto.


The "Armgun" is basically a bastardized bullpup AR-15 pistol that takes M-16 mags. Pic here: http://images.gunsamerica.com/upload/976532913-1.jpg

Both can be had (if you've got the bucks) in full auto, and both offer far, FAR more firepower than a IMI Desert Eagle could HOPE to put out on it's best day.

I've also been known to carry an "a" series waffenampted BHP. It doesn't have that nasty magazine safety that the non-waffenampted ones do.

citrid

... man this is crazy for me not from the US ....

I never had nor ever will I carry a gun ...
and I am so thankful not to live in the US ...

and be able to go to any corner of my town ...
or any town i have been to ....

even in london I have been to "anywhere" ...
There I met them kids on the streets with guns ...
I dont needed one ...

a fighting could be "Natural" ...
a killing for trouble is "INSANE" ....

What u wonder why them shoot them off each time a day in the US ?

A former friend of mine had a gun, now he is in jail for murder ... for fucking 11 years ... got pissed on coca and shot one off in front of the club ...

what the fuck are ya guns for but killing ?
Move to the next hood if it aint right there ...

I dont get ya folks ... Clinton was about to change some laws and the country got upset ... na my way ....

u pay a good price for ya freedom to walk armed ...

man, and ur president started chasing WMDs in Iraq or what?
U have an industry of "mass destruction" running ya homelands ....


greetz, Clinton ... ehm ... Citrid

moosenose

We're equally thankful that you don't live in the US....I'd far rather the position next to me be empty than be filled with a coward...

MSD

Based on feel, personal experience (range time,) and concealability, I've narrowed my selection down to a few choices from which my carry pistol will most likely be selected.

1: The FN 5-7 (5.7mm JHP)
Ironically enough, my interest in this gun was sparked by a local newspaper article that drew on the worst stereotypes of both guns and gun owners, demonizing both the gun and anyone who would buy one as a cop-killer. Seeing through the bullshit, I saw an innovative weapon that has stayed in my mind as my first choice for carrying despite several considerations of other choices. The near-zero recoil and muzzle jump make follow-up shots easy, if necessary.

The ballistics data reveal some interesting properties of the ammunition. First, the 2200fps+ muzzle velocity puts it alongside rifle rounds rather than standard pistol rounds, and at such a high velocity hydrostatic shock becomes a factor in target incapacitation. The permanent wound channel in ballistic gelatin from the 5.7x28 is approximately 2.75", regardless of the target's clothing. In bare gelatin, penetration was 7.75" wit some sideways travel, with standard shirt, flannel, and down jacket it was up to 9" in a straight line, and through IIA kevlar penetration was reduced to 6". It is clear that overpenetration is not an issue with this round, and the hollowpoint does not suffer the same clogging and lack of expansion as normal pistol rounds.

2: The Glock Model 30 (.45ACP JHP)
The .45 is a round that has been proven effective for quick incapacitation of targets. A round like the Federal Hydrashok (which has been reccommended to me by several people) is highly effective and needs no introduction to most shooters.

I recently fired the G30 (actually my first time shooting pistols,) and at 50 yards, I managed a group of only 6". The recoil was easily manageable, and the gun felt natural in my hand. This has fallen to the bottom of my list, however, because it jammed while I was only on my second 9rd magazine. The gun froze out of battery after the 6th shot, and when I looked down into the chamber, I saw the tip of a bullet pointing right back at me. A quick doubl pull of the slide brought me to the last two rounds, which were fired wihtout incident. The offending round was inspected and subsequently fired without any abnormal occurences. Whether this was a freak occurence, an improperly loaded magazine, bad form (loose wrist?,) or the effect of wear on a rental gun can only be determined with the use of several hundred additional rounds (unfortunate, isn't it?)

3: H&K .45 USP
Once again, the .45 is my caliber of choice. This gun felt comfortable in my hand, and the sights lined up perfectly as I lifted it and took aim. There really isn't much else to say. H&K's reliability has been proven by both police and military use, and that's a big endorsement in my book.

4: Springfield MilSpec .45ACP
With a few modifications, the 1911 design can be made into an extremely reliable gun, and a large weapon is not a problem for me. Due to time concerns related to drawing a big gun, I doubt that this will be my final choice, but it's a possibility.

5: Smith and Wesson 500
This is the comedy option of the group. This is what you pick when you don't want to take the question seriously. I'll put it simply. I'm fucking huge. This gun is fucking huge. The only time I've seen anyone use one, he held it like a rifle. A shit-hits-the-fan backup gun, I would only carry so I could say I did. Anything else and I'd look like one of the douchebags who carries a Desert Eagle just to outdo everyone else or compensate for other inadequacies. I might as well shove a sawed-off shotgun down my pants. Accessibility would be an issue, but then again, if I had the time to aim and fire it at an approaching target, I'd have time to get it out. Again, this is purely a comedy option. I'd love to see the looks on peoples' faces if they saw it.

edit: now that I think about it, I'd probably take a CZ-52 over the MilSpec.
I think that brand-loyalty may still be slanting your opinion, but this time you've landed on a solid choice. The 941, marketed in the US as the "Baby Eagle," is the practical, reliable little brother of Counterstrike's noob cannon. Available in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45ACP (excluding the .41AE, discontinued due to lack of sales,) models of varying sizes, it offers a reasonable range of ammo choices in a concealable size, although a bit on the big side.


If you're going to post on TFP, at least make a good-faith attempt to exercise remedial English Language skills. Your post ranges from exhibiting irritatingly poor grammar to outright incomprehensibility.

Your post does not belong in the Weaponry forum. If you had bothered to read the rules (http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=20063) you would notice that debate between pro/anti gun groups belongs in Politics. Most people would not walk into an NRA meeting or the local shooting range and say what you posted here, and while you may not have seen it as such, posting it here will result in your argument being recieved in a similar manner. To discuss the politics of gun ownership, control, and use, you would find you argument is better recieved if discussed in an appropriate venue (not at a place where gun owners congregate.)

This is your friendly warning. Now that I have explained the rules, any further posting of gun control debate in this forum will be considered trolling and dealt with as such. Please search the politics forum and either find an existing thread in which to post your opinion and arguments, or start a new one if no such thread exists.

0energy0

Breath, Burp, Fart, Tongue, Penis

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MSD

I must commend you for this wonderfully relevant contribution to the discussion.

paulskinback

Can I just ask - why would you want to carry a concealed weapon in the first place?

Sure - if a guy pulls a gun on you, you shit your pants (maybe not literally, but hey) you give him your wallet, your watch etc and you get on with your life. So you lost some posessions? Get over it.

If you then pull out a gun, shoot him in the back, he's still alive, shooting match begins, you him or both get killed - or innocent bystanders.... seems like life is cheap all of sudden.

Also, in what state is it legal to walk around with a gun on your person (only because i'm not american)

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Locobot

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Suave

How do you know the person won't shoot you anyway? What if someone just threatens you?

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Martian

Now, I like things that go boom as much as the next guy, but I was sort of wondering about this too. I know that where I live isn't the greatest neighbourhood and I could easily see myself getting into a scrap and having to bloody a lip, but I've never felt so threatened that I'd need to carry a firearm on my person and certainly not as I go about my daily life.

What I'm wondering is where some of you live that you feel the need for such a high level of personal protection? Have any of you actually used your concealed weapon to fend off a mugger or other form of attacker? I'm not being anti-gun here and I'm certainly not going to tell anyone they're not entitled so long as it's in accordance with local law, but I just have trouble understanding the need.

paulskinback - if you shoot him it's unlikely for a shooting match to begin, especially if you shoot him in the back. There's a lot of really painful spots to hit on the back and if you hit the spinal column it could result in paralization or death. Further to that, even if he does return fire odds are against there being more than one or two slugs fired, unless you're both absolutely terrible shots. Guns are designed to incapacitate through injury or death (and don't give me the 'sport' argument, that's not their original intent, even if they've evolved that way) and they do their job remarkably well.

Again, I'm not anti-gun. They certainly have their place. Match shooting and skeet shooting are great pastimes for some people and I'd never suggest that our police forces give up their sidearms. I just don't see the need for your average citizen to carry a weapon as he goes about his daily life.

Suave

Well Martian, pistols aren't exactly ubiqutous in Canada. Most weapons-related assaults and deaths involve stabbing or slashing implements. The United States (especially certain states) is a much different atmosphere from Canada. Florida for example, with their new "shoot first, don't ask questions at all" law is somewhere I'd want to be carrying, along with probably 3/4 of the rest of the states.

Besides the number of weapons found throughout, what if someone hugely violent and fit, maybe an ex-Marine, decides to pick a fight with you? Your life could be in danger purely from his unarmed combat ablities. You pull a firearm out while you're far enough away, and hopefully the wannabe assailant will back down.

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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

CandleInTheDark

Because law abiding citizens should not be without means of defending themselves in those rare situations. The police aren't there to protect you.

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MSD

It's perfectly legal in most states (with the ironic exception of some large cities where law-abiding gun owners would be most likely to be able to discourage criminals from attacking.)

There are many reasons to carry a weapon, and it probbly deserves its own thread, but I'll try to summarize for you. There are two big ones. First, our Supreme Court has ruled that the police are not responsible for protecting us, they're responsible for arresting those who harm us (or killing them if they threaten the police with deadly force,) and filling out paperwork and providing evidence for a trial afterwards. They cannot be everywhere at all times. Think about how many law enforcement officers there are per person. There's no way that one of them will be able to protect even a simple majority of violent crime victims chosen at random. Second, a person who is threatening to take your life because of whatever cash and valuables you're carrying with you cannot be trusted to stop that threat once finished. Most gun owners will agree that any person who is willing to take your life in a non-defensive situation has forfeited the right to his own.

The logic behind preserving the right of every person to own guns is that we are a nation founded by those who refused to give them up and used them to fight back against an oppressive government, and we should not be deprived of that right at any point in the future if the need arises. Most gun owners hope that they will never have to shoot anything other than an inanimate target, and most will never have to. However, there is a possibility that they will need it, and it is much better to be prepared than not.

The consideration of shooting anyone in the back who no longer poses a threat to you bothers me. A gun should be used to defend yourself, not for revenge against an attacker who has stopped. As for the need argument, refer to my comments above.
That's a really bad way to describe it. The law simply states that you don't have to back into a corner if you think your life is in immediate danger. Anyone who tries to abuse it by shooting when they don't need to will certainly be found guilty of unnecessarily escalating the situation and sentenced accordingly.

Suave

Would "shoot first, ask questions later" be better? Just ribbin' ya. Yeah, it may be a bad way to describe it. Either way, someone living in Canada has no comparison to living in the states, despite what a small group of Europeans may say about our countries being identical.

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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

cheeterbo

p99 & ultratech II

unscrupulous

I would have to go with Glock 27, as someone said earlier it fits in your pocket easy, and let's not forget about a couple of extra clips (just in case). Toss a knife or too (choose something small) and you're ready to go.

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