Zeraph

Assuming both are good guns. Obviously the revolver is the winner. But what I'd like to know, for my upcoming purchase, is by how much? Like actual statistics?

Plus a few questions.

Is the only way for a revolver to misfire/jam/whatever for the bullet to not go off? Or is there a mechanical way it can jam/misfire? I've only ever shot one revolver in my life, and briefly, most have been auto loaders so I don't have much experience.

For the good (let's just say 9mm) guns out there + good ammo (everything within this discussion is considered good ammo/gun) what's the % misfire rate? 1%? For a revolver? %?

This is also for concealed carry if it matters. So it'd be a snub nose .38 special for instance if I was going revolver.

The_Dunedan

Several, actually. The most common, I'd guess, would be if the weapon's timing was off (a serious problem requiring extensive repairs) or if parts were worne enough to cause them not to engage properly.

The thing is, when an autoloader malfunctions, the problem can almost always be cured with a tap-rack-bang drill or by simply recocking the pistol. Additionally, autoloaders are now extremely reliable weapons, or else they wouldn't be universal military arms.

Bear in mind that an autoloader is actually very, very simple. Most autoloaders have fewer moving parts (connected with the operation of the gun: I'm leaving aside controls like safeties and cylinder latches) than revolvers, and those parts are fairly large and easy to work with. Autoloaders can (usually) be torn down for maintainence, and repairs/upgrades are an at-home job.

By contrast, the only two revolvers to ever see long military careers are the British Webley and the Russian M1895. Both were so ruggedly simple that they could be fixed with bubblegum and a rock.

Most revolvers, on the other hand, are very precise instruments with lots of moving parts. Those parts are held in place mostly just by their position in the gun vis-a-vis the other parts they're next to. Open up a wheelgun sometime: it's like a mechanical watch. And just like a watch, all it takes to tie the gun up more-or-less permanently is for one of those parts to break, bend, or get knocked out of place.

But the bottom line is that automatic pistols no longer suffer from any significant deficiancy in reliability and have not for many, many years. Automatics became near-universal military arms before WWII, and most major powers had at least partially adopted an autoloading design by the time of WWI. Bear in mind that in 1911, rifles were still being issued with magazine cutoffs because they were intended for use primarily as single-shot weapons: the magazine was to be held in reserve for emergencies. The world's militaries were not terribly interested in fast reloads -or- high ammo capacity (with the burgeoning exception of the British, thanks to the Boer War) at the time. Autopistols caught on with militaries because they were easier for an average trooper to maintain and much easier to repair/clear in the event of a stoppage or catastrophic malfunction.

Essentially the only thing which will cause a modern autoloader to malfunction are bad ammo, bad technique (ie "limp wristing"), or the grossest possible lack of maintainence.

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debaser

Z,

If this was driven by my comment in the other thread. I was refering not to reliability, but to ease of clearing. Manipulating an autoloader during one of the three (or 4, if you suck) malfunctions it routinely has is far more difficult to do under stress than clearing a revolver (which will commonly only have one type of malfunction: failure to fire), which is accomplished simply by pulling the trigger again.

A new revolver should give you none of the issues The_Dunedan listed above.

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KirStang

Try to steer clear of Taurus revolvers, if you can. I'm always hearing about cylinder bind and other problems with them.

Zeraph

Thank you, very informative.

debaser- naw I'm just going to be upgrading soon. Needed the info. So far a ruger .40 felt the best. Which surprised me because I usually have disdain for the .40.

---------- Post added at 09:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

So rather than starting another new thread, and since we're talking reliability here...what are the signs to look out for that its too good a deal to be true?

I was just looking at several 9mm (name escaping me atm) and that ruger. All around 300$. But I'm like, something must be wrong....(it was at cabelas) I checked all the moving parts though, and they all seemed smooth.

KirStang

Get one of these:

Glock Mod 17 9mm Handgun



You're getting something like a $600 handgun for $389 (since $300 seems like your price range).

9mm ammo will be inexpensive and plentiful enough that you can shoot it until you're comfortable with it. There are pretty good 9mm Self-defense loadings out there, that you can use for protection.

Although a glock is ugly and not as easy to shoot accurately as a 1911, you won't go wrong with one.

woohog1

As said before, really the only way that a revolver can go "bad" is to jump time, however that is EXTREMELY rare. I have a few revolvers that are from the 20s and have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds through them and they still function properly. The trick is to get a good brand. You could save some money and go w/ a cheaper brand and it will still work, but you are at a much higher chance of having something go wrong based solely on luck.
It is in your best interest to decide what you feel comfortable with. Most new shooters start out w/ a revolver, because there are less moving parts. Then they advance to autoloaders. I grew up shooting a smith and wesson highway patrolman, in .357 and loved it, then I made the switch to a 1911 and fell in love with it also.
There is something to be said about having more firepower w/ an autoloader,and for some folks thats an important issue, but to me the most important thing is to get what you feel comfortable with.

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mkillebrew

a third generation G17 goes for $400 new. I paid a little less than that for mine on gunbroker.

As for the Taurus comment, I have a Taurus 669 and haven't experienced any issues with it at all, although having just shot that one revolver of theirs is too small of a sample size to draw any conclusion as far as their quality is concerned.

KirStang

With night sights, installed and zeroed? Did you buy pre or post Obama rush?

And if you could find a 3rd Gen G17 for less than $400 new, please link our friend here to it. I'm sure he could use the link.

Re: Tauri pistols.

I constantly hear stories of people with Taurus revolvers that just keep giving them problems. Given that Z is a new shooter, I didn't want him being lured to a Taurus by the price point, only to constantly have problems.

Zeraph

Not exactly a new shooter. Been shooting since I was eight. There's just been big spaces in between and my memory isn't as good. Also had someone else basically making the decisions on what to buy for me. But he isn't in my life anymore. I took the gun safety class when I was like 10. I'm super rusty but not new.

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 AM ----------

Also, you mentioned that glock. But isn't the most important thing in how it feels?

KirStang

I'm trying to steer you clear of some weapon like a hi point or S&W Sigma. Both are okay guns that go bang, but if you can accept a used weapon, a used Glock would be a better choice at that price point.

You can also find some cheaper, Philippine made 1911s (in .45ACP that you love so much) for around $400s. Try to shoot them before you buy--as some 1911s may be finicky.

*ETA*

- Ergos are important yes, but there are a lot of other things like reliability, recoil control, accessory support (holsters), safeties, etc. I would not say the most important thing is how a weapon feels. What's most important is that you take that gun, go to a training school with it, and become proficient with it.

---------- Post added at 05:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

*ETAA*Where's Plan9's all informative post?

Walt

For what its worth, I've put tens of thousands of rounds through various Glocks and have never had a malfunction that wasn't due to a bad primer.

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