How long does ammunition last? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FuglyStick · 08-29-2010, 04:59 PM

How long will stored ammunition remain viable? I imagine humidity would get to most ammunition without taking special precautions (a humidor of some sort) in about twenty years, spoiling the primer and/or gunpowder, but that's just a wild guess. Anyone have an idea on an actual time frame?

My father had reloaded some .38 Special rounds many moons ago (I'd say 30 years) and when my mother went to fire a few rounds recently, the primers were bad.

Hektore · 08-29-2010, 05:12 PM

Well, I just recently found some old 100 round .22LR boxes in my wife's grandparents house that are at least 15 years old. Worked better than the ones I bought last month. Definitely not climate controlled.

I imagine your question would depend so greatly on storage methods, type and maker of the round that providing any sort of cut and dry - year length - answer will be almost impossible, without resorting to a multiple page essay. Even then it would likely be an educated guess because I don't know of anyone who makes it a point to store ammo long term. Even if it's stockpiled, you cycle through the old first as the new comes in.

FuglyStick · 08-29-2010, 05:48 PM

Thanks, Hektore.

I must confess, the question is more theoretical than practical. I've come across accounts online of ammunition that was 80 years old or better performing without flaw, when stored in an air tight container. My real impetus for picking the brains of the TFP Weaponry crowd is the post-apocalyptic movies that depict firearms being used a century or more after ammunition would have been produced. While reloading shells is easy enough with relatively simple tools, the acquisition and refining of the raw materials needed to make powder and primer would require industrial organization; without that industrial organization, the only ammunition available would have been the ammunition produced before the collapse of the industrial organization, making firearms obsolete as soon as the ammunition expired, whether it had been fired or not.

Hektore · 08-29-2010, 06:11 PM

Well, in terms of post-apocalyptic production - I was under the impression that most modern powders are made from nitrocellulose, which is actually fairly easy to make.

Slims · 08-30-2010, 10:30 AM

Humidity shouldn't hurt modern ammunition in any major way. It will have a *very* small impact on the burn rate of the powder, but won't matter unless you are shooting for gnats ass precision.

More commonly rounds go bad from excessive loading/unloading in an automatic pistol. If you are constantly chambering one round over and over it may slowly push the bullet back into the cartridge which will greatly increase chamber pressures when it is finally fired.

Solvent/Gun Oil is another concern, but unless you saturate the primer area with oil you are not likely to experience this.

Immersion will get to most cheap ammunition. Premium ammunition typically is less susceptible to this short-term.

I would imagine extreme heat could play a role, but I have shot ammunition that has spent years sitting in a shipping container in Afghanistan with no problems.

Fire · 09-04-2010, 04:01 AM

military surplus ammo from the 1950's is still being shot with reckless abandon by a lot of guys and gals that like milisurp rifles- military ammo is generally built a little more resistant to assorted environmental concerns than your average commercial stuff- humidity will get to shotgun shells pretty quick, and .22 rimfire ammo being generally cheaply made, seems to be susceptible as well - excessive heat (over 100) for a long time is supposed to reduce shelf life somewhat- I, and a lot of people I have met, tend to store my ammo in .50 cal ammo cans with good seals, and some desiccant to kill any residual moisture, and stored that way it seems to be good for pretty much a lifetime-

---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 AM ----------

and as to the idea of guns in a post apocalypse setting, black powder is actually easy enough to make that I know people that have done so for blackpowder shooting, and primers can be made using mercury fulminate, also quite easy ( and REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS ) to make- brass cases can easily be reused up to 10 times each, sometimes more, and the tech to make new ones is steam engine era, not likely to be that hard to climb back up to, unless you are talking about one helluva PAW- as mentioned above, if you wanna go for a higher prize, nitrocellulose is not that hard to make, though it is harder than black powder- as to older guns working, some guys on another forum decided to see how long an Ak-47 semi auto clone would run on black powder loads they made up just for the occasion- they only made 100, thinking it would foul, but it was still going strong when they ran out....... likewise, revolvers will run just fine on simple black powder reloads.....

MSD · 09-07-2010, 02:02 PM

There will be stocks of Soviet surplus ammo in spam cans around long past when humans go extinct

remy1492 · 09-18-2010, 04:33 PM

Yeah my Russian spam cans are from 76' and shoot great. My Czech, Hungarian, Polish and Bulgarian tins are from the 40s/50s. They still shoot great and show no signs of wear.

They say that the ammo will last 50 years, but thats probably in harsh climates like a hot afghan summer and siberian winter. I venture if the ammo is stored in cool temps with little fluctuation it will last at least 200 years. The corrosive primers stay a lot better than commercial primers.

I don't think the average non-gun owner realizes how many billions of rounds there are in their city amongst civilian gun shooters. Many more rounds than the military has at any given time. If apocalypse were to happen, ammo would be found like treasure here and there for a long long time.

The best investment is a metal ammo can with a good new rubber seal and a dessicant pack. Anything will last forever in that.

08-29-2010, 04:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	How long does ammunition last? How long will stored ammunition remain viable? I imagine humidity would get to most ammunition without taking special precautions (a humidor of some sort) in about twenty years, spoiling the primer and/or gunpowder, but that's just a wild guess. Anyone have an idea on an actual time frame? My father had reloaded some .38 Special rounds many moons ago (I'd say 30 years) and when my mother went to fire a few rounds recently, the primers were bad. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT! Last edited by FuglyStick; 08-29-2010 at 05:02 PM..

08-29-2010, 05:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	Well, I just recently found some old 100 round .22LR boxes in my wife's grandparents house that are at least 15 years old. Worked better than the ones I bought last month. Definitely not climate controlled. I imagine your question would depend so greatly on storage methods, type and maker of the round that providing any sort of cut and dry - year length - answer will be almost impossible, without resorting to a multiple page essay. Even then it would likely be an educated guess because I don't know of anyone who makes it a point to store ammo long term. Even if it's stockpiled, you cycle through the old first as the new comes in. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

08-29-2010, 05:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	Thanks, Hektore. I must confess, the question is more theoretical than practical. I've come across accounts online of ammunition that was 80 years old or better performing without flaw, when stored in an air tight container. My real impetus for picking the brains of the TFP Weaponry crowd is the post-apocalyptic movies that depict firearms being used a century or more after ammunition would have been produced. While reloading shells is easy enough with relatively simple tools, the acquisition and refining of the raw materials needed to make powder and primer would require industrial organization; without that industrial organization, the only ammunition available would have been the ammunition produced before the collapse of the industrial organization, making firearms obsolete as soon as the ammunition expired, whether it had been fired or not. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

08-29-2010, 06:11 PM	#4 (permalink)
Hektore Junkie Location: Greater Harrisburg Area	Well, in terms of post-apocalyptic production - I was under the impression that most modern powders are made from nitrocellulose, which is actually fairly easy to make. __________________ The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game. Last edited by Hektore; 08-29-2010 at 06:57 PM..

08-30-2010, 10:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	Humidity shouldn't hurt modern ammunition in any major way. It will have a very small impact on the burn rate of the powder, but won't matter unless you are shooting for gnats ass precision. More commonly rounds go bad from excessive loading/unloading in an automatic pistol. If you are constantly chambering one round over and over it may slowly push the bullet back into the cartridge which will greatly increase chamber pressures when it is finally fired. Solvent/Gun Oil is another concern, but unless you saturate the primer area with oil you are not likely to experience this. Immersion will get to most cheap ammunition. Premium ammunition typically is less susceptible to this short-term. I would imagine extreme heat could play a role, but I have shot ammunition that has spent years sitting in a shipping container in Afghanistan with no problems. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

09-04-2010, 04:01 AM	#6 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	military surplus ammo from the 1950's is still being shot with reckless abandon by a lot of guys and gals that like milisurp rifles- military ammo is generally built a little more resistant to assorted environmental concerns than your average commercial stuff- humidity will get to shotgun shells pretty quick, and .22 rimfire ammo being generally cheaply made, seems to be susceptible as well - excessive heat (over 100) for a long time is supposed to reduce shelf life somewhat- I, and a lot of people I have met, tend to store my ammo in .50 cal ammo cans with good seals, and some desiccant to kill any residual moisture, and stored that way it seems to be good for pretty much a lifetime- ---------- Post added at 07:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 AM ---------- and as to the idea of guns in a post apocalypse setting, black powder is actually easy enough to make that I know people that have done so for blackpowder shooting, and primers can be made using mercury fulminate, also quite easy ( and REALLY FUCKING DANGEROUS ) to make- brass cases can easily be reused up to 10 times each, sometimes more, and the tech to make new ones is steam engine era, not likely to be that hard to climb back up to, unless you are talking about one helluva PAW- as mentioned above, if you wanna go for a higher prize, nitrocellulose is not that hard to make, though it is harder than black powder- as to older guns working, some guys on another forum decided to see how long an Ak-47 semi auto clone would run on black powder loads they made up just for the occasion- they only made 100, thinking it would foul, but it was still going strong when they ran out....... likewise, revolvers will run just fine on simple black powder reloads..... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

09-07-2010, 02:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	There will be stocks of Soviet surplus ammo in spam cans around long past when humans go extinct

09-18-2010, 04:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
remy1492 Crazy Location: CA TX LU	Yeah my Russian spam cans are from 76' and shoot great. My Czech, Hungarian, Polish and Bulgarian tins are from the 40s/50s. They still shoot great and show no signs of wear. They say that the ammo will last 50 years, but thats probably in harsh climates like a hot afghan summer and siberian winter. I venture if the ammo is stored in cool temps with little fluctuation it will last at least 200 years. The corrosive primers stay a lot better than commercial primers. I don't think the average non-gun owner realizes how many billions of rounds there are in their city amongst civilian gun shooters. Many more rounds than the military has at any given time. If apocalypse were to happen, ammo would be found like treasure here and there for a long long time. The best investment is a metal ammo can with a good new rubber seal and a dessicant pack. Anything will last forever in that.