Do you CCW into other people's houses? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ChrisJericho · 08-10-2010, 02:38 AM

I'm relatively new to CCW'ing. I started carrying my usp compact 9mm about 4 months ago when I got my permit. Ever since then I've made it a point to always be armed whenever I leave the house whether it be going to the grocery store, bank, park, mall, restaurant etc.

However one place I have not carried is when I have gone into other people's homes. I feel like I would be imposing on their wishes if I were to carry inside. Yes I use an inside the waistband holster that does a pretty good job of preventing any printing, but I still feel reluctant about doing it since I am unsure about how some of them would react if they saw my gun sticking out.

This feeling is amplified if there are children present. Of course my gun would be under my shirt in the cocked and locked condition with the safety on and the trigger covered due to the holster, but there is still something in my subconscious that says kids and guns just shouldn't even be near each other.

On the other hand I feel awkward leaving my gun in the car before I go into their house, and thus only being armed with my fists and spyderco folding knife.

How have other people handled this situation?

Jinn · 08-10-2010, 07:50 AM

I don't really CCW because of where I live now, but going into other people's houses really depended on how well I knew them. If I knew them well, they likely would know and wouldn't have a problem. If I didn't really know them well I'd put it in my car or ask them if they minded if the neighborhood was sketchy.

Plan9 · 08-10-2010, 08:36 AM

Maturity and common sense are big factors. There are a lot of Hoplophobes out there (another zinger from our Lord and Savior Colonel Jeff "All Balls" Cooper) that want nothing to do with firearms because they've seen too much TeeVee. So, yeah, it would depend on the type of people that live in the house and the threat level of a given area. Are they Dial-a-Prayer suburbanites that assume the cops and EMTs and fire will solve all of life's little problems in 2.8 seconds? These type of people don't own and can't understand why you'd own a gun. Or an Israeli bandage. Or a fire extinguisher. Or a few dozen bottles of water in a crate in the basement. Your perceived threat in the area is the other factor. If it's a creepy neighborhood where you get the thousand yard stare and tough man posturing and gibberish calls from the locals, you're probably packing. You live in Seattle, right? Not Baltimore.

As an aside, my favorite type of disdain for the OP's CCW situation is that of "There are children in this house!" That's funny; I don't recall my gun ever jumping out of the holster to kill a kid. In fact, I don't recall guns ever doing anything on their own. Huh! And just like I don't leave jars of skull 'n crossbones labeled poison, toe popper landmines, and dialed up acetylene torches just scattered about the house, I don't leave firearms unattended. I wouldn't be outed if I carried into someone's home and didn't tell them, but I would leave assuming I was outed and they didn't approve of my status.

More intimate (and hopefully secure) settings make off-body carry (a cardinal sin of regular carry), such as stuffing your piece into a backpack and cuddling up to it, far more practical, especially if you're carrying a cannon. I've seen guys use some foam and cardboard to make a concealed carry cases outta zip up netbook sleeves. Nobody questions why you're babying your iPad case, right? Hell, people have lost fingers over those nerdy gizmos.

Thank Jeebus all of the guys I hang out with, families or not, own and use firearms on a regular basis. Most of the Type A guys carry most of the time.

...

The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the whitey-white northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas. Leave your piece in your car with your first aid kit and your tow strap and all that crazy paranoid survivalist guy stuff. I'm basing this assumption on the FBI's UCR and the NCVS. Your city/state is far from a gangsta's paradise.

snowy · 08-10-2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the whitey-white northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas. I'm basing this assumption on the FBI's UCR and the NCVS. Your city/state is far from a gangsta's paradise.

Hah, this was also my thought when reading this thread.

If you wanted to come into my house with a weapon, I'd consider you strange--why the heck would you need a weapon in my house, let alone my town, when property crime is minimal and violent crime even less? I should note that according to Farmers Insurance, who spent their time looking at the crime stats, I live in the safest small city in the nation. I'd probably let you carry (as I've let other friends who work in law enforcement do in the past), but I'd appreciate the heads-up.

Jinn · 08-10-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowy

If you wanted to come into my house with a weapon, I'd consider you strange--why the heck would you need a weapon in my house, let alone my town, when property crime is minimal and violent crime even less?

If you *have* a gun on you, for whatever reason, it's generally speaking a better idea to bring it inside the house than leave it in a car. Smash and grab takes 30 seconds on a car, and there's one more firearm in the hands of someone who probably shouldn't have one.

The_Dunedan · 08-10-2010, 01:29 PM

I'm typically armed 24/7, and the folks I'm tight with know and understand that. Most of them have no issue with it. The few who do made their objections known long ago, and so when I visit them I simply don't carry my weapon into their homes. If I'm at the home of a someone I don't know well, and who may not be aware of my situation, I always ask before entering. I make it clear that if they're uncomfortable with the presence of my weapon that I'll secure it elsewhere. Their roof, their rules: that's simple politeness.

OTOH, I have at times offered guests a "loaner" sidearm for jaunts around the farm, or if we'll be working in the woods.

biznatch · 08-10-2010, 02:10 PM

Speaking as a non-armed person, I'd also like the heads up.
I can understand the car being less safe, and I'd probably let you in with it, providing you're a 100% sober person I completely trust.

In a few years, when there's kids, maybe I wouldn't be as comfortable.
kids like running up on people and hugging them at waist level without any warning, best outcome: "what's that?" (and later, "why does daddy's friend carry a gun?")
worst outcome, it's somehow poorly secured and bang! (Though I know nothing about guns and this is probably impossible, or something. Still, though)

Pearl Trade · 08-10-2010, 02:55 PM

Try to tell them ahead of time that you'll be carrying.

"Hey, I usually carry a gun on me wherever I go, I have a permit for it and all that. Would it be alright if I had it on me at your place?"

Something to that effect.

Willravel · 08-10-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

I'm typically armed 24/7, and the folks I'm tight with know and understand that. Most of them have no issue with it. The few who do made their objections known long ago, and so when I visit them I simply don't carry my weapon into their homes. If I'm at the home of a someone I don't know well, and who may not be aware of my situation, I always ask before entering. I make it clear that if they're uncomfortable with the presence of my weapon that I'll secure it elsewhere. Their roof, their rules: that's simple politeness.

This seems perfectly polite and reasoned. If people don't have a problem with it, go for it. If they do, don't. If you're not sure, ask.

LordEden · 08-10-2010, 04:06 PM

I think it's kinda of like smoking, you ask before you light up, even if you see ashtrays on the table. I plan on carrying my CCW everywhere I go but I will make sure it's ok if I come into your home with it. I expect the same from others.

Martian · 08-10-2010, 04:41 PM

I wouldn't necessarily object to someone bringing a legal weapon into my home. I would strongly object to someone bringing a legal weapon into my home without telling me.

Granted I live in Canada where legal concealed carry doesn't exist in any practical sense, but we're assuming for the sake of argument that this is not the case.

Anyway, that seems to match consensus.

therealcat · 08-10-2010, 04:53 PM

Wow. I just realized I don't know anyone who doesn't keep and bear arms.

Plan9 · 08-10-2010, 05:12 PM

Wow. Whole lotta down home "aww, shucks" honesty in here. It's nice but maybe not practical and in some cases defeats the purpose of a hidden weapon. Letting someone you don't know well or can't trust that you're carrying a gun when you don't have to isn't the best way of going about "concealed carry." I used to carry a J-frame on my right kidney when I went out on dating site first encounters and I sure as hell didn't tell the girl when we got back to her apartment and were about to go into the face sucking phase. I just quietly stuck the piece in my boot and proceeded to the groping. Something tells me mentioning that I had a gun would either scare the shit out of them or look like I'm showing off. I figure concealed carry means hidden both physically and mentally. Mentioning it to someone that you're not tight with is a great way to have them blabbing to their family and friends and worse. If you've never been outed in public by some dipshit associate, you don't know how awkward and potentially dangerous this can be. If you go about keeping your mouth shut and your gun hidden two things happen: you don't make yourself a target and everything continues as normal.

...

There are various threads on various gun forums regarding this topic. Just recently some guy got gunned down at a CostCo in Vegas over concealed carry. I won't get into that here, but society as a whole doesn't like Joe Average carrying a gun. Don't broadcast to anybody. It's safer that way.

...

I'm not a genius. I'll take off my shoes when I go into your house, but the gun stays. It's like your wallet or keys... none of their goddamn business.

...

Leave it at home? Leave it in the car? Those are choices you can make but it completely defeats the purpose of concealed carry.

It reminds of a line genius comedian Leslie Nielsen used in one of those Naked Gun movies (or was it Police Squad?):

*threatening* "I've got a gun! Not here, but I've got one."

Oh, yessir.

raptor9k · 08-10-2010, 06:00 PM

deleted

The_Dunedan · 08-10-2010, 07:29 PM

It's their roof, and it's their rules. Whatever their reasons, it's -their- property, and they have a right to know as the property-holders than I am bringing a weapon onto their property.

For what it's worth, I'm also careful about he owners of the houses I visit. Only once in all my years of this policy has anyone ever asked that I secure my firearm: the rest have simply thanked me for asking and told me to c'mon in.

As for telling people I'm armed...suffice to say that it's not exactly a secret. In my business, it pays to advertise.

Plan9 · 08-10-2010, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

For what it's worth, I'm also careful about he owners of the houses I visit. Only once in all my years of this policy has anyone ever asked that I secure my firearm: the rest have simply thanked me for asking and told me to c'mon in.

As far as the opinions of local residents on firearms, you and I live on different planets. You can't carry here, Dunedan... the cops are all you'll ever need.

FuglyStick · 08-11-2010, 06:51 AM

If you're on my property, I want to know if you're armed. Period.

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 07:14 AM

Lemme play Devil's advocate for a moment with the "Muh propertah!" thing.

Okay, I get it. But I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where it would be a mega huge issue for someone to have a CCW on another person's property. Delivery person? Coworker? Baby shower? Best friend's weekly O'Douls-fueled poker match? I think the premise of this thread is that you're either around people you can trust (within limits) or strangers you can't. The legality of it varies from state to state (always confusing).

The real issue with the whole "my property" thing is trespassing, not packing a gun, no? Gun is an issue, but dude shouldn't be there in the first place.

I don't go to many houses or step onto property unless I've either got some type of business there (where I think it's okay for me to be armed) or I know the person well (where I don't think its an issue because the threat level consists of running out of beer or stepping on Lego bricks).

Another logic-based issue relates to the fact that the possession of a concealed handgun permit means that Joe Average is attempting to arm himself legally. Criminals don't go out for concealed carry cards because, well, they don't give two shits about the law. While at least half of those out there with concealed handgun permits shouldn't have them (based on weapon handling skills alone), they're probably not criminals and have 1% use intention.

...

Also: "USP Compact" is an oxymoron.

ChrisJericho · 08-11-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

As an aside, my favorite type of disdain for the OP's CCW situation is that of "There are children in this house!" That's funny; I don't recall my gun ever jumping out of the holster to kill a kid. In fact, I don't recall guns ever doing anything on their own.

The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the whitey-white northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas.

Well I already said my aversion to children and guns being in the same area is on a subconscious level. The gun of course would be completely safe in the holster covering the trigger with the safety on as I already stated. It's an illogical fear on my part sort of like standing too close to a microwave.

Yes most of the areas I frequent are in "whitey-white" areas. However white people have been known to commit crimes just like any other race.

The street my parents live on has had 2 burglaries since the beginning of the year and one car prowling. Granted the burglaries happened in the middle of the day when no one was home and the smash and grab car prowling was in the middle of the night, but maybe the situation will be different in the future. Again this is in a "whitey-white" neighborhood.

Also about 10 years ago I was at my grandparents' house with my little brother and my aunt. At the time I was just a teenager, maybe 18 or so. I was sitting in another room watching TV when I heard the front door open and close. I figured it was just my grandparents coming back from the grocery store. My little brother who was probably 9 at the time comes into the room where I am watching TV and says "Someone just came inside the house and is talking to Auntie and they're scary." My grandparents often left the front door unlocked since this is the "whitey-white northwest" Plan9 describes. So I get up and go into the kitchen area where the front door opens up to and there is this weird person who is very clearly a meth-user (Washington state had a huge meth problem a few years back) standing there inside the house. I think it was a female but I am not quite sure to this day. It was very clear my aunt hadn't invited this person in. The person said they were lost and just wanted some bus money, but really it looked like they were sizing up the situation to see if they could get more than that. My Aunt being the smart person she is and not wanting to escalate the situation went and got a few bucks out of her purse while I watched the meth person and then gave the money to meth person. The meth person slowly looked around and then left.

If I had not been there I am not sure what would have happened to my little brother and aunt.

If the meth head had been armed in any way, I might not have been able to stop them from doing whatever they wanted since at the time of course I wasn't armed due to my age.

Before that incident and after that incident my grandparents' house was completely safe (hence why the front door was unlocked).

Yes this is only one event which is statistically insignificant given the thousands of days in my life where nothing bad happened.

But it is one reason why I would prefer to be armed everywhere, because even in the "whitey-white northwest" sometimes bad things happen.

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 04:05 PM

Pointing out the obvious: a lotta good a gun will do you if your doors are unlocked. Proper physical security measures foil more crimes than guns.

And you're correct. According to the UCR and NCVS, most burglaries occur during the day when the home is unoccupied. Easy pickings that way.

I said, "The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas." And that translates to avoiding concealed carry by keeping firearms at the houses you frequent. My family and most of my friends have home defense guns readily available. You could keep a dedicated vehicle gun (beater piece) hidden / locked-container'd in your car, too. You don't need to keep it on your hip to foil a home invasion. If you do, you're probably not living in the US anymore.

...

I like how whitey-white was used repeatedly.

ChrisJericho · 08-11-2010, 04:35 PM

Yes I completely agree with keeping the doors locked. My grandparents were old fashioned.

The neighborhood where I live now is very suburbany with zero crime that I am aware of, however I always keep the doors locked and the garage door closed. I am amazed though when I go out running in the evenings and about 25% of the garage doors facing the street are wide open.

FuglyStick · 08-11-2010, 04:42 PM

Yeah, uh, lotsa rationalization goin' on in here. Don't come armed onto my property without letting me know about it.

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 05:27 PM

New T-shirt: I'm in your backyard, having my guns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisJericho

The neighborhood where I live now is very suburbany with zero crime that I am aware of, however I always keep the doors locked and the garage door closed. I am amazed though when I go out running in the evenings and about 25% of the garage doors facing the street are wide open.

A good way to get a better idea of the threats in your area is to reference federal, state and local crime stats. The Intarwebs and your local PD are full of all sorts of information that almost nobody looks at aside from college students in my field and people trying to write grants. You'll find that property crimes vastly outnumber personal crimes by a huge slice and that certain crimes may or may not actually happen in your area (dreaded home invasions).

...

As I write this, I just learned about a serial killer in my neighborhood. Ha.

FuglyStick · 08-11-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

New T-shirt: I'm in your backyard, having my guns.

No, you're not.

I like you, 9, but you insist on being glib [/cruise] on a subject I am deadly serious about.

I live in Illinois; there is no concealed carry. However, if I lived somewhere that did allow concealed carry, and a friend came over with a concealed firearm and did not tell me about it, we would have some strong words. If a STRANGER came over with a concealed weapon, and I found out about it, the words are going to be very strong.

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 05:53 PM

Well, I'm not a genius. But I think you're missing the point here:

A - You should probably trust your friends with guns. If you don't, they're probably not real friends. Ex: Good friends know to lock up their sidearm when they start drinking. They also know that a baby shower doesn't warrant a Glock 19 on their hip. It can stay in the car under the floormat.
B - If a guy with a visible gun is on your property and acting a fool and making his piece an issue, doesn't it matter whether or not he has a piece of paper in his wallet with a CCW number on it, does it? And you can yell at a visibly armed stranger all you want, but it'd be better to have a gun.

A concealed carry permit is a piece of paper with a number on it. It doesn't attempt to prevent crime, it simply attempts to keep track of someone exercising their rights. I suppose I could change the title to "Open Carry," but open carry is for suburban retards, ranch hands and hikers.

I think a lot of this stems from the fear of guns. Should I inform the owner of a house that I carry a folding knife as well or isn't that scary enough? If you've ever had the pleasure of sparring with a seasoned knife fighter, you'd be aware of how quickly someone can fuck you up with a Buck. I got my ass absolutely owned by an gray beard sportin' old man with a rubber knife. He would have killed me a dozen times in about ten seconds.

So I don't worry about knives. Or guns. I worry about people.

FuglyStick · 08-11-2010, 05:58 PM

My point is this:

I want to be able to account for all the firearms on my property.

Is that so hard to understand?

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 06:00 PM

Not at all. I'd rather account for all the people on my property. They're more dangerous.

FuglyStick · 08-11-2010, 06:02 PM

Well, if your position is "it's none of your business whether I bring a gun onto your property or not," then we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Plan9 · 08-11-2010, 06:06 PM

I've never been described as glib (acerbic, sure) before, but I may have to write it on the side of my Bladetech in yellow paint marker.

And don't butter me up, big boy... I know you think I'm full of shit as evidenced by my inbox.

...

Illinois is a silly state.

"Concealed" means nobody knows I have a gun. Not telling you keeps me safe. Telling you can jeopardize that. I trust my holster more than your lips.

...

And honestly? I'm just playing Cheney's advocate in this thread. Don't take it personal.

ChrisJericho · 08-11-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan9

Also: "USP Compact" is an oxymoron.

No it says 'Compact' right on the slide. If HK say's it's compact then it must be, especially given how slim and non-bulky it is.

/takes another sip of HK kool-aid

Plan9 · 08-12-2010, 07:56 AM

Yeah, yeah. I've had a USP 45 for over a decade and it's a great shooting pistol provided it has an unlimited supply of free factory magazines and nothing on the weapon fails (like the friggin' firing pin). I just don't want anybody in this thread to be confused by that particular combination of words. It's false advertising at best.

And here's what I think of your Kool Aid:

kutulu · 08-12-2010, 09:44 AM

Bringing a gun into someone's house without asking them is so incredibly rude. I'd be pissed if someone brought one into my house and I probably wouldn't want them back.

FuglyStick · 08-12-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Bringing a gun into someone's house without asking them is so incredibly rude. I'd be pissed if someone brought one into my house and I probably wouldn't want them back.

I guess this is my biggest problem with it. If you're a friend, and are carrying a concealed weapon, it's not as if I'm going to ask you to leave or disarm while you are at my residence. It's that it's atrocious etiquette, and disrespectful to a homeowner.

Cimarron29414 · 08-12-2010, 01:48 PM

In my state, you have to inform/ask the homeowner. It sucks, but I follow the rules.

Slims · 08-12-2010, 03:10 PM

How is it rude or any different from any other tool?

I won't knowingly carry a weapon into the residence of someone whom I feel would not approve. But it's along the same lines of wearing a leather belt into the home of a Vegan: If you have reason to believe they would be concerned then act appropriately, otherwise it is a non-issue unless they bring it up.

There is nothing 'rude' about carrying a firearm into a home unless you believe that you are incapable of safely carrying the firearm or that firearms are inherently evil. Unless either of these statements is true then you are doing nothing wrong or intrusive.

The law allows for any concerned home owner to post a no-weapons sign which legally binds visitors to not carry weapons on posted properties.

There is no etiquette difference between carrying a pistol into a supermarket and carrying in a house without asking permission. Both are private property.

Plan9 · 08-12-2010, 04:11 PM

Well put.

FuglyStick · 08-12-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slims

How is it rude or any different from any other tool?

I won't knowingly carry a weapon into the residence of someone whom I feel would not approve. But it's along the same lines of wearing a leather belt into the home of a Vegan: If you have reason to believe they would be concerned then act appropriately, otherwise it is a non-issue unless they bring it up.

There is nothing 'rude' about carrying a firearm into a home unless you believe that you are incapable of safely carrying the firearm or that firearms are inherently evil. Unless either of these statements is true then you are doing nothing wrong or intrusive.

The law allows for any concerned home owner to post a no-weapons sign which legally binds visitors to not carry weapons on posted properties.

There is no etiquette difference between carrying a pistol into a supermarket and carrying in a house without asking permission. Both are private property.

A belt is not a gun. A supermarket is not my house.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but--bring a concealed firearm onto my property without letting me know about it, and we have a problem. Now, you can banter back and forth about it as much as you like, but when you're done, we're right back where we started. I don't appreciate someone bringing a firearm on my property without informing me. If you don't like it, stay the fuck off my lawn, cowboy.

Martian · 08-12-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slims

How is it rude or any different from any other tool?

There is no etiquette difference between (having wild screaming monkey sex in) a supermarket and (having wild screaming monkey sex) in a house... Both are private property.

Does this statement still make sense if we alter the activity? If not, can it still be considered logically sound?

The difference between a gun and any other tool is that a gun is a weapon. It's not like you have a legitimate use for a gun apart from aiming it at people and making it go bang. If your bike chain pops off the sprocket, you're not going to lever it back into place with your Colt .45 .

People who get a CCW for their weapon are at least in theory responsible gun owners, and I would expect responsible gun owners to understand that their guns are emotionally and politically charged hotbeds. Some people get really worked up about these sorts of things and if you are going to bring one into someone's home you owe it to that someone to let them know. Can you probably get away without telling them? Well, yeah, but for one that doesn't mean it's right, and even if it did why would you want to? If the environment isn't threatening, it's just rude to put your own feelings above that of your host. And if it is, why are you even entering it in the first place?

I don't know, these are just my thoughts. Maybe I'm not being rational on this one, but the bottom line is that if I were in a situation where this were possible, I'd want to know.

Plan9 · 08-13-2010, 07:42 AM

Logic?

There are laws against sex in view of others. Heh. And I've heard them read aloud at 3 AM before.

Concealed carry laws in many states, however, allow one to legally carry a firearm on private property unless X, Y, Z.

Common X, Y, Z consist of "banks, schools, places that serve booze in sit-down fashion, and any place clearly marked with a No Guns sign."

Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. The rest is "manners" and Little Baby Jeebus knows that topic is a stroll through some concertina wire.

...

I don't really want to start quoting concealed carry laws but I think it may be required given the opinion / manners aspect of this thread.

Cimarron29414 · 08-13-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slims

How is it rude or any different from any other tool?

I won't knowingly carry a weapon into the residence of someone whom I feel would not approve. But it's along the same lines of wearing a leather belt into the home of a Vegan: If you have reason to believe they would be concerned then act appropriately, otherwise it is a non-issue unless they bring it up.

There is nothing 'rude' about carrying a firearm into a home unless you believe that you are incapable of safely carrying the firearm or that firearms are inherently evil. Unless either of these statements is true then you are doing nothing wrong or intrusive.

The law allows for any concerned home owner to post a no-weapons sign which legally binds visitors to not carry weapons on posted properties.

There is no etiquette difference between carrying a pistol into a supermarket and carrying in a house without asking permission. Both are private property.

Again, it's not the same...at least not in my state. My state requires you to tell the owner, and ask their permission.

I thought about this last night and I'm tending to agree with Fugly. Even as a CWP holder, I don't think I want an invited guest to bring a CW into my house without my knowledge. Until this thread, I always thought about the issue through the eyes of a CWP holder. Thinking of it as the homeowner, I see why our law is written this way.

08-10-2010, 02:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	Do you CCW into other people's houses? I'm relatively new to CCW'ing. I started carrying my usp compact 9mm about 4 months ago when I got my permit. Ever since then I've made it a point to always be armed whenever I leave the house whether it be going to the grocery store, bank, park, mall, restaurant etc. However one place I have not carried is when I have gone into other people's homes. I feel like I would be imposing on their wishes if I were to carry inside. Yes I use an inside the waistband holster that does a pretty good job of preventing any printing, but I still feel reluctant about doing it since I am unsure about how some of them would react if they saw my gun sticking out. This feeling is amplified if there are children present. Of course my gun would be under my shirt in the cocked and locked condition with the safety on and the trigger covered due to the holster, but there is still something in my subconscious that says kids and guns just shouldn't even be near each other. On the other hand I feel awkward leaving my gun in the car before I go into their house, and thus only being armed with my fists and spyderco folding knife. How have other people handled this situation? __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-10-2010, 07:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	I don't really CCW because of where I live now, but going into other people's houses really depended on how well I knew them. If I knew them well, they likely would know and wouldn't have a problem. If I didn't really know them well I'd put it in my car or ask them if they minded if the neighborhood was sketchy. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

08-10-2010, 08:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Maturity and common sense are big factors. There are a lot of Hoplophobes out there (another zinger from our Lord and Savior Colonel Jeff "All Balls" Cooper) that want nothing to do with firearms because they've seen too much TeeVee. So, yeah, it would depend on the type of people that live in the house and the threat level of a given area. Are they Dial-a-Prayer suburbanites that assume the cops and EMTs and fire will solve all of life's little problems in 2.8 seconds? These type of people don't own and can't understand why you'd own a gun. Or an Israeli bandage. Or a fire extinguisher. Or a few dozen bottles of water in a crate in the basement. Your perceived threat in the area is the other factor. If it's a creepy neighborhood where you get the thousand yard stare and tough man posturing and gibberish calls from the locals, you're probably packing. You live in Seattle, right? Not Baltimore. As an aside, my favorite type of disdain for the OP's CCW situation is that of "There are children in this house!" That's funny; I don't recall my gun ever jumping out of the holster to kill a kid. In fact, I don't recall guns ever doing anything on their own. Huh! And just like I don't leave jars of skull 'n crossbones labeled poison, toe popper landmines, and dialed up acetylene torches just scattered about the house, I don't leave firearms unattended. I wouldn't be outed if I carried into someone's home and didn't tell them, but I would leave assuming I was outed and they didn't approve of my status. More intimate (and hopefully secure) settings make off-body carry (a cardinal sin of regular carry), such as stuffing your piece into a backpack and cuddling up to it, far more practical, especially if you're carrying a cannon. I've seen guys use some foam and cardboard to make a concealed carry cases outta zip up netbook sleeves. Nobody questions why you're babying your iPad case, right? Hell, people have lost fingers over those nerdy gizmos. Thank Jeebus all of the guys I hang out with, families or not, own and use firearms on a regular basis. Most of the Type A guys carry most of the time. ... The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the whitey-white northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas. Leave your piece in your car with your first aid kit and your tow strap and all that crazy paranoid survivalist guy stuff. I'm basing this assumption on the FBI's UCR and the NCVS. Your city/state is far from a gangsta's paradise. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-10-2010 at 07:53 PM..

08-10-2010, 02:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
biznatch Junkie Location: France	Speaking as a non-armed person, I'd also like the heads up. I can understand the car being less safe, and I'd probably let you in with it, providing you're a 100% sober person I completely trust. In a few years, when there's kids, maybe I wouldn't be as comfortable. kids like running up on people and hugging them at waist level without any warning, best outcome: "what's that?" (and later, "why does daddy's friend carry a gun?") worst outcome, it's somehow poorly secured and bang! (Though I know nothing about guns and this is probably impossible, or something. Still, though) __________________ Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

08-10-2010, 02:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
Pearl Trade Addict Location: Houston, Texas	Try to tell them ahead of time that you'll be carrying. "Hey, I usually carry a gun on me wherever I go, I have a permit for it and all that. Would it be alright if I had it on me at your place?" Something to that effect. __________________ Our revenge will be the laughter of our children. Give me convenience or give me death!

08-10-2010, 01:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	I'm typically armed 24/7, and the folks I'm tight with know and understand that. Most of them have no issue with it. The few who do made their objections known long ago, and so when I visit them I simply don't carry my weapon into their homes. If I'm at the home of a someone I don't know well, and who may not be aware of my situation, I always ask before entering. I make it clear that if they're uncomfortable with the presence of my weapon that I'll secure it elsewhere. Their roof, their rules: that's simple politeness. OTOH, I have at times offered guests a "loaner" sidearm for jaunts around the farm, or if we'll be working in the woods.

08-10-2010, 04:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	I wouldn't necessarily object to someone bringing a legal weapon into my home. I would strongly object to someone bringing a legal weapon into my home without telling me. Granted I live in Canada where legal concealed carry doesn't exist in any practical sense, but we're assuming for the sake of argument that this is not the case. Anyway, that seems to match consensus. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

08-10-2010, 04:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
therealcat Upright	Wow. I just realized I don't know anyone who doesn't keep and bear arms.

08-10-2010, 05:12 PM	#13 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Wow. Whole lotta down home "aww, shucks" honesty in here. It's nice but maybe not practical and in some cases defeats the purpose of a hidden weapon. Letting someone you don't know well or can't trust that you're carrying a gun when you don't have to isn't the best way of going about "concealed carry." I used to carry a J-frame on my right kidney when I went out on dating site first encounters and I sure as hell didn't tell the girl when we got back to her apartment and were about to go into the face sucking phase. I just quietly stuck the piece in my boot and proceeded to the groping. Something tells me mentioning that I had a gun would either scare the shit out of them or look like I'm showing off. I figure concealed carry means hidden both physically and mentally. Mentioning it to someone that you're not tight with is a great way to have them blabbing to their family and friends and worse. If you've never been outed in public by some dipshit associate, you don't know how awkward and potentially dangerous this can be. If you go about keeping your mouth shut and your gun hidden two things happen: you don't make yourself a target and everything continues as normal. ... There are various threads on various gun forums regarding this topic. Just recently some guy got gunned down at a CostCo in Vegas over concealed carry. I won't get into that here, but society as a whole doesn't like Joe Average carrying a gun. Don't broadcast to anybody. It's safer that way. ... I'm not a genius. I'll take off my shoes when I go into your house, but the gun stays. It's like your wallet or keys... none of their goddamn business. ... Leave it at home? Leave it in the car? Those are choices you can make but it completely defeats the purpose of concealed carry. It reminds of a line genius comedian Leslie Nielsen used in one of those Naked Gun movies (or was it Police Squad?): threatening "I've got a gun! Not here, but I've got one." Oh, yessir. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-10-2010 at 05:25 PM..

08-10-2010, 06:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
raptor9k Crazy Location: Earth	deleted Last edited by raptor9k; 09-07-2021 at 10:06 AM..

08-10-2010, 07:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	It's their roof, and it's their rules. Whatever their reasons, it's -their- property, and they have a right to know as the property-holders than I am bringing a weapon onto their property. For what it's worth, I'm also careful about he owners of the houses I visit. Only once in all my years of this policy has anyone ever asked that I secure my firearm: the rest have simply thanked me for asking and told me to c'mon in. As for telling people I'm armed...suffice to say that it's not exactly a secret. In my business, it pays to advertise.

08-11-2010, 06:51 AM	#17 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	If you're on my property, I want to know if you're armed. Period. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

08-11-2010, 07:14 AM	#18 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Lemme play Devil's advocate for a moment with the "Muh propertah!" thing. Okay, I get it. But I'm having a hard time coming up with a situation where it would be a mega huge issue for someone to have a CCW on another person's property. Delivery person? Coworker? Baby shower? Best friend's weekly O'Douls-fueled poker match? I think the premise of this thread is that you're either around people you can trust (within limits) or strangers you can't. The legality of it varies from state to state (always confusing). The real issue with the whole "my property" thing is trespassing, not packing a gun, no? Gun is an issue, but dude shouldn't be there in the first place. I don't go to many houses or step onto property unless I've either got some type of business there (where I think it's okay for me to be armed) or I know the person well (where I don't think its an issue because the threat level consists of running out of beer or stepping on Lego bricks). Another logic-based issue relates to the fact that the possession of a concealed handgun permit means that Joe Average is attempting to arm himself legally. Criminals don't go out for concealed carry cards because, well, they don't give two shits about the law. While at least half of those out there with concealed handgun permits shouldn't have them (based on weapon handling skills alone), they're probably not criminals and have 1% use intention. ... Also: "USP Compact" is an oxymoron. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-11-2010 at 07:59 AM..

08-11-2010, 04:05 PM	#20 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Pointing out the obvious: a lotta good a gun will do you if your doors are unlocked. Proper physical security measures foil more crimes than guns. And you're correct. According to the UCR and NCVS, most burglaries occur during the day when the home is unoccupied. Easy pickings that way. I said, "The opposite argument would be that since you're most likely in a suburban home in the northwest United States, you could probably do without concealed carry completely when in residential areas." And that translates to avoiding concealed carry by keeping firearms at the houses you frequent. My family and most of my friends have home defense guns readily available. You could keep a dedicated vehicle gun (beater piece) hidden / locked-container'd in your car, too. You don't need to keep it on your hip to foil a home invasion. If you do, you're probably not living in the US anymore. ... I like how whitey-white was used repeatedly. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-11-2010 at 04:13 PM..

08-11-2010, 04:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	Yes I completely agree with keeping the doors locked. My grandparents were old fashioned. The neighborhood where I live now is very suburbany with zero crime that I am aware of, however I always keep the doors locked and the garage door closed. I am amazed though when I go out running in the evenings and about 25% of the garage doors facing the street are wide open. __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

08-11-2010, 04:42 PM	#22 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	Yeah, uh, lotsa rationalization goin' on in here. Don't come armed onto my property without letting me know about it. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

08-11-2010, 05:53 PM	#25 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Well, I'm not a genius. But I think you're missing the point here: A - You should probably trust your friends with guns. If you don't, they're probably not real friends. Ex: Good friends know to lock up their sidearm when they start drinking. They also know that a baby shower doesn't warrant a Glock 19 on their hip. It can stay in the car under the floormat. B - If a guy with a visible gun is on your property and acting a fool and making his piece an issue, doesn't it matter whether or not he has a piece of paper in his wallet with a CCW number on it, does it? And you can yell at a visibly armed stranger all you want, but it'd be better to have a gun. A concealed carry permit is a piece of paper with a number on it. It doesn't attempt to prevent crime, it simply attempts to keep track of someone exercising their rights. I suppose I could change the title to "Open Carry," but open carry is for suburban retards, ranch hands and hikers. I think a lot of this stems from the fear of guns. Should I inform the owner of a house that I carry a folding knife as well or isn't that scary enough? If you've ever had the pleasure of sparring with a seasoned knife fighter, you'd be aware of how quickly someone can fuck you up with a Buck. I got my ass absolutely owned by an gray beard sportin' old man with a rubber knife. He would have killed me a dozen times in about ten seconds. So I don't worry about knives. Or guns. I worry about people. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-11-2010 at 06:04 PM..

08-11-2010, 05:58 PM	#26 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	My point is this: I want to be able to account for all the firearms on my property. Is that so hard to understand? __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

08-11-2010, 06:00 PM	#27 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Not at all. I'd rather account for all the people on my property. They're more dangerous. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-11-2010, 06:02 PM	#28 (permalink)
FuglyStick WHEEEE! Whee! Whee! WHEEEE! Location: Southern Illinois	Well, if your position is "it's none of your business whether I bring a gun onto your property or not," then we're going to have to agree to disagree. __________________ AZIZ! LIGHT!

08-11-2010, 06:06 PM	#29 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	I've never been described as glib (acerbic, sure) before, but I may have to write it on the side of my Bladetech in yellow paint marker. And don't butter me up, big boy... I know you think I'm full of shit as evidenced by my inbox. ... Illinois is a silly state. "Concealed" means nobody knows I have a gun. Not telling you keeps me safe. Telling you can jeopardize that. I trust my holster more than your lips. ... And honestly? I'm just playing Cheney's advocate in this thread. Don't take it personal. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-11-2010 at 06:19 PM..

08-12-2010, 07:56 AM	#31 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, yeah. I've had a USP 45 for over a decade and it's a great shooting pistol provided it has an unlimited supply of free factory magazines and nothing on the weapon fails (like the friggin' firing pin). I just don't want anybody in this thread to be confused by that particular combination of words. It's false advertising at best. And here's what I think of your Kool Aid: __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-12-2010 at 08:03 AM..

08-12-2010, 09:44 AM	#32 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Bringing a gun into someone's house without asking them is so incredibly rude. I'd be pissed if someone brought one into my house and I probably wouldn't want them back.

08-12-2010, 01:48 PM	#34 (permalink)
Cimarron29414 Still Free Location: comfortably perched at the top of the bell curve!	In my state, you have to inform/ask the homeowner. It sucks, but I follow the rules. __________________ Gives a man a halo, does mead. "Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

08-12-2010, 03:10 PM	#35 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	How is it rude or any different from any other tool? I won't knowingly carry a weapon into the residence of someone whom I feel would not approve. But it's along the same lines of wearing a leather belt into the home of a Vegan: If you have reason to believe they would be concerned then act appropriately, otherwise it is a non-issue unless they bring it up. There is nothing 'rude' about carrying a firearm into a home unless you believe that you are incapable of safely carrying the firearm or that firearms are inherently evil. Unless either of these statements is true then you are doing nothing wrong or intrusive. The law allows for any concerned home owner to post a no-weapons sign which legally binds visitors to not carry weapons on posted properties. There is no etiquette difference between carrying a pistol into a supermarket and carrying in a house without asking permission. Both are private property. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

08-12-2010, 04:11 PM	#36 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Well put. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

08-13-2010, 07:42 AM	#39 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Logic? There are laws against sex in view of others. Heh. And I've heard them read aloud at 3 AM before. Concealed carry laws in many states, however, allow one to legally carry a firearm on private property unless X, Y, Z. Common X, Y, Z consist of "banks, schools, places that serve booze in sit-down fashion, and any place clearly marked with a No Guns sign." Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. The rest is "manners" and Little Baby Jeebus knows that topic is a stroll through some concertina wire. ... I don't really want to start quoting concealed carry laws but I think it may be required given the opinion / manners aspect of this thread. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 08-13-2010 at 07:53 AM..