Bushmaster ACR: FINALLY! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

The_Dunedan · 06-10-2010, 07:29 PM

Folks, someone besides SiG and Steyr have FINALLY gotten the 5.56mm carbine RIGHT!

We just received our first Bushmaster ACR today, and this thing is a masterpiece. The control suite is pure perfection. Somebody at Bushmaster was paying attention to the lads and lassies at Fabrique Nationale and Heckler & Koch: the bolt-stop is placed directly in front of the trigger-guard at the lower edge, just like my beloved FAL. This, combined with the HK-style charging handle, means that's it's dead easy to run the bolt and lock it back (for safety, or to clear a stoppage) without ever removing your dominant hand from the firing grip. It also means that to release the bolt, you just use either your non-dominant thumb (on its' way back to the forend) or dominant trigger/traffic finger. Like everything else it's ambidextrous, so workable either way. The adjustable cheekpiece seems to be in just about the perfect position for shooting with either irons or optics. I -love- the monolithic upper. And unlike the SCAR, this thing actually -is- caliber interchangeable! Lowers in 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are all allegedly in the works (although at this rate, we'll see 'em in about 2014). The entire weapon can be disassembled for cleaning without even a cartridge, although armorer-level stuff will still need a few tools. The polymer shell is contoured well, ergonomics are great, and the magwell is both flared for easy insertion and "pebbled" for using the "American Grip." The forened is -very- comfey, and the charging-handle is in just the right place: dead above where your hand should go. Ours is a fixed-stock version, but the folder should be -very- nice if the rest of this weapon is anything to go by. Word to the larger folks: get the folder. The fixed stock comes in with a 12.5" Length Of Pull: short (but not uncomfortable) for me at 5'10. Obviously designed with body armor in mind. Another thoughtful touch: the pistol-grip contains a phial for oil, spares, etc. This thing honestly looks like several very smart Israelis worked it over with Belgian help. It's even got a proper, receiver-mounted recoil spring: none of that never-to-be-sufficiently-damned SPROIIIING in my ear!

Complaints: the safety unfortunately kept the 90-degree throw of the AR, instead of the 45-ish degree throw of the SiG or FAL/FNC. As a consequence it feels "in the way" when in the Fire position. Likewise, the safety seems inexplicably to be made from the sort of cheap plastic used in Happy Meal toys: it's the one part on this rifle that doesn't feel dinosaur-proof. It's also far too small IMO. Magpul's BUIS system is well-designed, but offers only front-sight elevation adjustment. Long-range shooting, of course, isn't what this is for: I'd feel perfectly happy with a Trijicon fiber-optic reflex sight on this rifle. The upper is fully railed, so there's plenty of flexibility in mounting optics and NVD setups. Ideally I'd drop a 3.5x ACOG on the bitch and call it done.

Bottom Line: If I anticipate serious trouble or armored Bad Guys, I'll keep on rockin' my FAL. I'll never give up The War Bitch. But for a 5.56 carbine? Patrolling? Walking dogs? I think I want me one of these. I love the AUG/MSAR bullpups. I love the SiG carbines. But -this- thing? -THIS- thing I -WANT-. Get ridda that damned safety and it'd be pure perfection. And frankly, I can live with the safety to get the rest.

Damn. And now I have to -sell- this thing. This is gonna hurt worse than that LWRC M6A1 Howe. Fuck.

Plan9 · 06-10-2010, 08:09 PM

You get the standard model? I'll wait for Remington to push out the enhanced model, myself. It looks better.

And at $2000 plus... I'm better off buying a KAC SR15. When the price drops to $1500 they'll have a winner.

The_Dunedan · 06-10-2010, 08:12 PM

Wait 'till you handle one, mate. The controls -alone- are worth the premium. I'd want the Enhanced (folding stock) version myself, for vehicle use, but this thing is.....damn. DAyum.

Plan9 · 06-10-2010, 08:22 PM

Like I said... at that price? I'll take the SR15 and get the sliding stock, the forearm rails and be able to put on pistol grip that's bigger than my dick.

That gun could be something good in the future and after they unfuck a few flaws, but right now it's just a cash cow for gearqueers. And I say that as a guy (read: total sucker) who's purchased Robinson Armaments products. The enhanced model ACR should have left the factory doors first, IMO.

The_Dunedan · 06-10-2010, 08:33 PM

I agree on the Enhanced version, no doubt. The folder shoulda been first onto my racks, esp. considering the absurd LoP on the Standard. But even the Standard is...damn. Fuck. Ergonomically it's so far ahead of the AR it makes my brain hurt. And that's without a folding stock, and without considering the OS! The grip is a little snug (and I've got big ol' Piano Hands), but not uncomfortable at all. Nice and fat, with good rake and better texture. This thing is -SICK-.

Plan9 · 06-10-2010, 08:37 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah... maybe I'll buy a RRA PPS carbine and sell it at a huge loss a few months from now.

I'll still be ahead of these ACR standard model suckers. Where's KirStang at? I know he's all over this.

KirStang · 06-10-2010, 10:11 PM

Yea. Waiting for the Enhanced to come out then fall about ~$300 after the initial craze fades. You can find FN SCARs for about $1999 used now in good condition. I'll *maybe* snag a ACR Enhanced if I come across a good used one. Otherwise, after I throw on a BAD lever and BCM charging handle on to my M6A3, the only big advantage the ACR has is a folding stock. Plus, with an AR style rifle I get to train on what i'll most likely use if/when I'm deployed.

Walt · 06-11-2010, 09:51 AM

I was out at Dunedan's shop yesterday and had a chance to play with the ACR. Definitely a cool looking and well-designed rifle. I was really impressed with the way the controls were laid out and it points well.

That being said, I'm sticking with my M4 just because it's familiar and I've got all of the standard AR issues sorted out.

--------

Dunedan: What are the odds of you getting a demo model for us to play with?

The_Dunedan · 06-11-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Yea. Waiting for the Enhanced to come out then fall about ~$300 after the initial craze fades. You can find FN SCARs for about $1999 used now in good condition.

Don't think it's gonna happen. The $2,000 used SCARs are that way because the actual cost of the rifle makes that a pretty decent used price. The extreme run-up in prices when the SCAR came out was more to do with 1: LOTS of hype, and 2: Great Gun Rush driving -everything- up in price. The prices you're seeing on GB et al are pretty close to Dealer Cost for these weapons, and Bushmaster won't be dropping the price anytime soon. The SCAR's price was seriously distorted by hype and market conditions; the ACR is actually selling for so little (so close to cost) that a lot of dealers simply won't break even on the gun once advertising and such are factored in.

KirStang · 06-11-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Dunedan

Don't think it's gonna happen. The $2,000 used SCARs are that way because the actual cost of the rifle makes that a pretty decent used price. The extreme run-up in prices when the SCAR came out was more to do with 1: LOTS of hype, and 2: Great Gun Rush driving -everything- up in price. The prices you're seeing on GB et al are pretty close to Dealer Cost for these weapons, and Bushmaster won't be dropping the price anytime soon. The SCAR's price was seriously distorted by hype and market conditions; the ACR is actually selling for so little (so close to cost) that a lot of dealers simply won't break even on the gun once advertising and such are factored in.

Buds gun shop has ACRs for $1980 shipped.
Bushmaster ACR 223 16.5" Black Basic Configuration for Sale at Buds Gun Shop $1,980.00

Original MSRP for ACRs was $2,700. When they first hit market they were/are in the $2,200-$2,300 range. I bet if you hunt for one you'll eventually come across a used one for $1,700. So in essence, you're seeing new ACRs for ~$800 below MSRP, and potentially $1,000 below MSRP.

Here's one on GB with 1 day left at $1785

BUSHMASTER ACR 5.56 16" BASIC NIB REMINGTON $1785 : Semi-auto at GunBroker.com

Now, I'm not a gun dealer like you are, and I'm just a schmoe who likes to look for good deals, but I really think a sub $2k ACR is an easy possibility in the used gun market.

The_Dunedan · 06-11-2010, 03:14 PM

Both of those weapons are selling below dealer cost. These guys are just trying to generate cash-flow to stay in business; even a sale at a loss is better than no sale at all.

A sub-1800 used ACR might be possible within a year or so, but I doubt new prices will come down much further. -Too- big of a loss, or too many such losses, simply aren't supportable on the dealer's end.

FelixP · 06-11-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KirStang

Plus, with an AR style rifle I get to train on what i'll most likely use if/when I'm deployed.

Right on the head of the nail mon ami.

06-10-2010, 07:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Bushmaster ACR: FINALLY! Folks, someone besides SiG and Steyr have FINALLY gotten the 5.56mm carbine RIGHT! We just received our first Bushmaster ACR today, and this thing is a masterpiece. The control suite is pure perfection. Somebody at Bushmaster was paying attention to the lads and lassies at Fabrique Nationale and Heckler & Koch: the bolt-stop is placed directly in front of the trigger-guard at the lower edge, just like my beloved FAL. This, combined with the HK-style charging handle, means that's it's dead easy to run the bolt and lock it back (for safety, or to clear a stoppage) without ever removing your dominant hand from the firing grip. It also means that to release the bolt, you just use either your non-dominant thumb (on its' way back to the forend) or dominant trigger/traffic finger. Like everything else it's ambidextrous, so workable either way. The adjustable cheekpiece seems to be in just about the perfect position for shooting with either irons or optics. I -love- the monolithic upper. And unlike the SCAR, this thing actually -is- caliber interchangeable! Lowers in 6.8SPC, 6.5 Grendel, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are all allegedly in the works (although at this rate, we'll see 'em in about 2014). The entire weapon can be disassembled for cleaning without even a cartridge, although armorer-level stuff will still need a few tools. The polymer shell is contoured well, ergonomics are great, and the magwell is both flared for easy insertion and "pebbled" for using the "American Grip." The forened is -very- comfey, and the charging-handle is in just the right place: dead above where your hand should go. Ours is a fixed-stock version, but the folder should be -very- nice if the rest of this weapon is anything to go by. Word to the larger folks: get the folder. The fixed stock comes in with a 12.5" Length Of Pull: short (but not uncomfortable) for me at 5'10. Obviously designed with body armor in mind. Another thoughtful touch: the pistol-grip contains a phial for oil, spares, etc. This thing honestly looks like several very smart Israelis worked it over with Belgian help. It's even got a proper, receiver-mounted recoil spring: none of that never-to-be-sufficiently-damned SPROIIIING in my ear! Complaints: the safety unfortunately kept the 90-degree throw of the AR, instead of the 45-ish degree throw of the SiG or FAL/FNC. As a consequence it feels "in the way" when in the Fire position. Likewise, the safety seems inexplicably to be made from the sort of cheap plastic used in Happy Meal toys: it's the one part on this rifle that doesn't feel dinosaur-proof. It's also far too small IMO. Magpul's BUIS system is well-designed, but offers only front-sight elevation adjustment. Long-range shooting, of course, isn't what this is for: I'd feel perfectly happy with a Trijicon fiber-optic reflex sight on this rifle. The upper is fully railed, so there's plenty of flexibility in mounting optics and NVD setups. Ideally I'd drop a 3.5x ACOG on the bitch and call it done. Bottom Line: If I anticipate serious trouble or armored Bad Guys, I'll keep on rockin' my FAL. I'll never give up The War Bitch. But for a 5.56 carbine? Patrolling? Walking dogs? I think I want me one of these. I love the AUG/MSAR bullpups. I love the SiG carbines. But -this- thing? -THIS- thing I -WANT-. Get ridda that damned safety and it'd be pure perfection. And frankly, I can live with the safety to get the rest. Damn. And now I have to -sell- this thing. This is gonna hurt worse than that LWRC M6A1 Howe. Fuck. Last edited by The_Dunedan; 06-14-2010 at 05:57 PM..

06-10-2010, 08:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You get the standard model? I'll wait for Remington to push out the enhanced model, myself. It looks better. And at $2000 plus... I'm better off buying a KAC SR15. When the price drops to $1500 they'll have a winner. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

06-10-2010, 08:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Like I said... at that price? I'll take the SR15 and get the sliding stock, the forearm rails and be able to put on pistol grip that's bigger than my dick. That gun could be something good in the future and after they unfuck a few flaws, but right now it's just a cash cow for gearqueers. And I say that as a guy (read: total sucker) who's purchased Robinson Armaments products. The enhanced model ACR should have left the factory doors first, IMO. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 06-10-2010 at 08:25 PM..

06-10-2010, 08:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Yeah, yeah, yeah... maybe I'll buy a RRA PPS carbine and sell it at a huge loss a few months from now. I'll still be ahead of these ACR standard model suckers. Where's KirStang at? I know he's all over this. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 06-10-2010 at 08:40 PM..

06-11-2010, 09:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	I was out at Dunedan's shop yesterday and had a chance to play with the ACR. Definitely a cool looking and well-designed rifle. I was really impressed with the way the controls were laid out and it points well. That being said, I'm sticking with my M4 just because it's familiar and I've got all of the standard AR issues sorted out. -------- Dunedan: What are the odds of you getting a demo model for us to play with? __________________ Calmer than you are...

06-10-2010, 08:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Wait 'till you handle one, mate. The controls -alone- are worth the premium. I'd want the Enhanced (folding stock) version myself, for vehicle use, but this thing is.....damn. DAyum.

06-10-2010, 08:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	I agree on the Enhanced version, no doubt. The folder shoulda been first onto my racks, esp. considering the absurd LoP on the Standard. But even the Standard is...damn. Fuck. Ergonomically it's so far ahead of the AR it makes my brain hurt. And that's without a folding stock, and without considering the OS! The grip is a little snug (and I've got big ol' Piano Hands), but not uncomfortable at all. Nice and fat, with good rake and better texture. This thing is -SICK-.

06-10-2010, 10:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
KirStang Future Bureaucrat	Yea. Waiting for the Enhanced to come out then fall about ~$300 after the initial craze fades. You can find FN SCARs for about $1999 used now in good condition. I'll maybe snag a ACR Enhanced if I come across a good used one. Otherwise, after I throw on a BAD lever and BCM charging handle on to my M6A3, the only big advantage the ACR has is a folding stock. Plus, with an AR style rifle I get to train on what i'll most likely use if/when I'm deployed.

06-11-2010, 03:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Both of those weapons are selling below dealer cost. These guys are just trying to generate cash-flow to stay in business; even a sale at a loss is better than no sale at all. A sub-1800 used ACR might be possible within a year or so, but I doubt new prices will come down much further. -Too- big of a loss, or too many such losses, simply aren't supportable on the dealer's end.