Plan9

This has been bouncin' around the web for a few days... figure it might make a good thread.

My thoughts echo these:

Sniper buzzword aside, is a legit defense entity actually wasting their time, energy, and money on this? Disgusting. And pointless.

KirStang

Oh no! Jesus rifles!

On one hand I can see how this may add fuel to the fire for the radicals who use this sorta stuff to recruit.

On the other hand...it's no big deal. Seriously. My ACOG says: ACOG4X32JN8:12.

Reference: "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life"

Ho hum. ABC blew this way out of proportion.

Plan9

I figure that they must be referring to tritium being the light of the world.

I know that quote is how I've felt about my old lensatic compass a few times.

...

Unrelated but this news piece reminded of one of Walt's posts about the AR ejection port cover with that obscene Team America: World Police zinger.

dlish

jihadists dont need to be convinced that this war is a religious war from the very start. they already think that.

this just confirms their thoughts, but they've been enraged for years.

what the difference from saying a prayer before taking a shot, or an allahu akbar before detonating an improvised explosive device?

you'll get a meh from me.

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Charlatan

My issue is that this is paid for by the state. A state that is supposed to secular.

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Baraka_Guru

Too late.

Maybe for a lot of people it is a religious war. Maybe this is something people don't want to talk about.

Either way, this must violate rules both in the military and in the church.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Cimarron29414

I guess the company gets to decide how much those stamps mean to them (they might lose their contract) and the military gets to decide how much good optics mean to them (they might lose their quality optics). Pardon the pun, but has anyone drawn a line in the sand yet?

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LordEden

Wonder how pissed they would be if they were issued this fictional weapon that could never exist.

**Anime Nerd Alert**



Sorry. Had to do it. When I read the title, this is the first thing that popped into my head.

Please join us on stage right as PlanB and KirStang beat me for mentioning Anime weapons in their Tilted Weapons forum.

For my next trick I'll use my knowledge of weapons from Counter-Strike to debate counter-terrorism tactics. Watch as Planster's head explodes.

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KirStang

WTF IS THIS SHIT?

I kid. I actually used to watch anime. In fact, I recently finished Gundam Seed over winter break (although I couldn't get over the protagonist acting like he couldn't get a hard on, then bustin' a 'nut' to go berserk).

IIRC, Trijicon is removing the references from their gunsights

Ref: Firm to Remove Bible References From Gun Sights - NYTimes.com

therealcat

Speaking strictly as a lifelong atheist: this doesn't even amount to a tempest in a tea pot.

Plan9

That's how I felt, but I can see how some white/black/brown/yellow guy with a M4 and some tan guy with an AK could take it the wrong way.

Daniel_

As an atheist it's a silly thing.

But why are Christians not up in arms about this?

Jesus said in no uncertain terms that killing is abhorent, that violence begets violence, that if someone hurts you let them hurt you more, and if someone takes from you give them more than they ask for. Being meek is right there in the beatitudes people.

Now picture a returned Jesus - he sees the fact that people claiming to glorify his name are using his words and the words of his immediate friends and followers to justify a device that helps you kill people more easilly from further away.

The device has been sold to a military who are showing the polar opisite of meek non-violence. They're actually going out of their way to seek out enemies and kill them in the night from huge distances.

From what I was taught of Christ, I don't think this behaviour counts as "ideal".

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

ASU2003

Maybe they will do a story on the notations on the bottom of In & Out burger cups.

snopes.com: In-N-Out Bible Verses

I do understand the separation of church and state, and this does violate that, but if they would have removed the : there would never have been any problem.

I agree with Daniel_ above, but as long as then enemy doesn't believe in the same book, they look the other way or encourage it.

And there is much more important news than this.

Plan9

Well, it's an ACOG, bro. It's not really THAT far. 10x binos at 200 yards aren't even that helpful.

Walt

1) Legalities aside, stamping references to bible verses on optics that will be issued to American soldiers is retarded. We are fighting douche bags who claim that we are at war with Islam. By proxy, it is the duty of all pious Muslims to take up arms against us. Now they have something to point at and say "See! Told you so!" The credibility of the soldiers working with the Afghans and Iraqis (which is damn hard to establish in the first place) was just undermined and taken down a notch by a dickhead bible thumper in Michigan. Thanks for that, cock.

2) Regardless, the ACOG and all its variants suck. EO Tech is where its at.

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Plan9

You're a "TeeVee Watcher," too? Brother!

...

My favorite was the Cool Guy uparmor I saw in country that had the "Have Gun - Will Travel" logo.

KirStang

Blasphemy!

The_Dunedan

ACOG rules. EOtech has batteries and won't stretch you beyond 250yrds. Batteries fail when you need them most, and I prefer that if I have to shoot at somebody, he/she/they be as far from me as my optics, platform, round and Chops will allow.

ACOG FTW.*

But please, Trijicon, get the damned verses off the scopes. Walt was right about everything else.



*It should be noted that this reflects a different set of needs and logistical realities which do not face our members serving overseas. A civilian rifleman or militiaman cannot call upon mortars, heavy machineguns, automatic grenade launchers, rocket-propelled grenades, missiles or airstrikes. Nor can they can count upon an endless supply of AA batteries. His rifle may also need to be capable of taking big game at extended range for survival purposes. Hence, the .30-cal semi-auto (FAL, M1A, HK91, etc) is a preferred weapon system, along with sufficiently durable and accurate 5.56mm weapons with 20+ barrels. For these types of rifles, designed to be manstoppers at up to 600 meters with plenty of juice left at 800, the ACOG excels. It's extremely accurate, the light-transmission is great, it's 24/7 illuminated without batteries, and it's built like a tank.

Ilow

As an agnostic I totally agree with Plan9 that the time and effort spent putting the stupid verses on is a colossal waste of time. I am actually more annoyed that they couldn't pick better verses. Light of the world? really? There have to be some great bible verses out there about smiting and whatnot. 1CO7:62(Colt verse 7:62) "And lo, the righteous reach out and smite you from afar," "and the Lord spaketh and declared 'one shot, one kill'"

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raptor9k

deleted

Plan9

Heh... I want an Uzi that says "USPS" on the side of it... ya know, with that little eagle logo.

Baraka_Guru

Can I inscribe verses from Nietzsche's Also sprach Zarathustra on my Glock?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

dlish

United States Peace Services...amirite?

walt- im not sure where your getting your facts that its the duty of every pious muslim to take up arms against you - thats just plain wrong. citations requested.

BG - for many it is a religious war. for others its in defence of their homeland, for others there may be revenge for the death of a loved one..or a myriad of other reasons. not all fighters/insurgents are fighting for the same cause. but when you put bible references on a gun it reinforces the notion that the christian US is there to fight a muslim [insert country name here], irrespective of how true those claims really are

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jlew_90

I personally think people shouldn't bitch about what our soldiers do or have done to their weapons.

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dlish

its not 'your' soldiers that are doing this to their weapons its Trijicon. helps to read the OP

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jlew_90

Notice i said 'have done' meaning the company had been doing it for years with the soldiers consent. How'd you figure I knew enough to make that post if i hadn't read the article?

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dlish

you were talking about your soldiers actions in present and past tense and not the actions of a private company. lets not kid ourselves.

you either need to express yourself a little better by posting more about what you think about a certain topic instead of a one liner, or learn a bit more about reading comprehension.

i heard about this issue more than a week ago as a headline on radio, so you could technically 'know' what the topic is about without actually reading the opening post or the facts of a story.

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
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jlew_90

yes I'm sorry have done to their weapons has two different meanings as both past tense and in having something done to something else.

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Daniel_

I take issue at "with the soldiers consent". There is no evidence presented that the NZ authorities asked for, or were asked about this proselytisation. The NZ government became aware, asked the maker not to do it, and the US authorities have investigated whether this is allowed.

In no way do these concepts indicate willing consent.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Plan9

Gawdammit, did I forget to highlight the important parts for the TLDR crowd?

Jeezus K. Reist!

dlish

im just wondering.....

if insurgents got their hands on those guns and use those guns to shoot back at the americans, what that actually means.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Derwood

Seems ironic to inscribe verses from a book that is (supposedly) about peace, love and understanding onto a tool of death

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Jinn

I first saw this on FA, and yea.. my immediate thought was just 'who thought this was a good idea'? Even if we can't tangentially link terrorism to the idea that we're killing them with "Jesus Rifles," who thought that branding something you sell to the military with religious anything was a good idea? Bad business decision on top of being offensive.

Luckily enough, there was enough outrage that they seem to have the changed the policy:

Friendly Atheist by @hemantsblog U.S. Military Switching to Secular Rifles

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Plan9

Age Old Argument: Does the 19 year old kid that's carrying the inanimate object have a religious medallion hanging from his neck?

...

Not to be a guy who's been there or anything, but I'm guessing like well over 50% (heh) of the guys that the ACOG has been used to assist in killing barely have an understanding on the English alphabet... let alone knowledge of an abbreviation of the religious text of their infidel enemy.

...

The only thing that this is really offending is white people who are afraid of offending everybody else. Which is good, of course.

'Cuz white people are total douchebags.

dlish

i just cant believe it took so long for someone to work it out... the wars been going how many years???...

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

KirStang

I think what it really was, was how long it took for someone to finally cry foul. IIRC, I heard about this a year or two ago and went :meh:

Fire

on the one hand, its meh , on the other it was likely a slow news day...... either way its way less important than the media seems to want it to be- If someone shoots me, I am not gonna give a damn what their optic says on it..... If I have to shoot someone, I am not going to care what my optic says on it.....

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dlish

fire - you may not care, but some actually do believe that their destinies, their actions and lives are protected in gods chess game and that no harm will get to them because they are on the true path.

there is the flip side to that where you have the same idea from an islamic belief, except the concept of martyrdom makes it a little more realistic because they dont think that they are protected from harm - just that its all part of gods master plan

so essentially what you have is god playing on both sides of the chess table..weird concept.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Plan9

Honestly, I don't think Jesus would endorse a direct-impingement gas system weapon.

Ilow

you think he's more of a piston guy?

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris