Zeraph

I know its illegal, I don't have one nor am I thinking of doing it or anything, just curious. Is it a movie myth? What would be the purpose? Its my limited understanding that with a pump anyway you'd cut off the magazine (or whatever its called for shotguns) so that wouldn't work. So whats the deal? Is it for concealability, shot spread? Only supposed to take off a few inches or as much barrel as possible? Cut off the stalk/butt as well?

Jetée

turns out you can wiki it: Sawed-off shotgun

basically, you are right that it has much more of an impactful spread, but the trade off is a lower effective range of shot. It's meant more for "splash effect", not long-distance shooting or hunting. "One-shot kill" is a good term, I'd think.

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telekinetic

As I understand, it's almost exclusively done for concealability, not for any sort of potentially positive effect on spread or pattern or anything of that nature. The most common literally sawn-off shotguns are either single shots or side-by-sides. If it's a pump shotgun with a magazine tube, you can either cut it even with the end of the tube, or shorten the tube and lose a few rounds.

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Zeraph

I don't trust wikis on mythy subjects like these.

Yeah, as I'd understand it, less barrel is less room for the expansion/propellant of gases which means less power. Not more.

So we'd be left with concealability. Which still doesn't seem all that concealable to me. And only a few shots. Why bother? Hence my wondering if this is more myth than practice (not that some dumb rednecks haven't tried it).

KirStang

Wild guess: Shotguns are generally less expensive and less regulated than pistols. In most jurisdictions, I can pay cash and carry a shotgun out the door, but not a pistol. Thus, if I wanted concealable firepower quickly, I can buy a $300 shot gun, illegally saw it down, and use it to rob my local 7-11 (All in the same day! =D).

(Note, this is only hypothetical...)

dlish

i thought that all armed robbers wear trenchcoats and they needed to conceal it, so a sawn off barrell was the best way to 'hide' it

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Cynthetiq

ah the days of keeping a hand canon in the house...

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telekinetic

I don't see anything in the wiki that I disagree with, and I'm fairly familiar with shotguns and shotgun laws.

The modern "sawed off shotgun" is anything with a barrel length of less than 16" something like this modified Remington 870 (with a Knoxx Spec-Ops stock):



or a Serbu Super Shorty:

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Zeraph

Good point. I live in a state where a handgun comes free with every purchase of jack daniels at the drive thru liquor store :P

Fire

NOTE- the legal length for a shotgun barrel in the US is 18 inches, not 16- and some states may have their own mandates, none can however be more lax than the fed... you can legally own a sawed off shotgun in some US states by obtaining a federal tax stamp, requiring a background check and a fee- of course, you have to get the tax stamp first, or you WILL likely go to prison.....

cutting down the barrel will reduce the velocity of the shot, and effect the pattern, though how much can vary from weapon to weapon, and by different loads..... note that the velocity reduction is not nearly enough to effect a reduction in lethality, especially at the close ranges a shotgun is likely to see use at.... conceal ability is the main reason for owning a short barrel shotgun, and the fact that despite the lack of ammunition, in close they are simply devastating to anything not wearing body armor,,,,,,,

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Daniel_

In England, the sawn off shotgun was most often found in the hands of criminals, and exactly for the reasons above - it can be concealed and it can be fabricated from readily available legal firearms - the side by side or less commonly the over and under double barrelled shotguns used for game hunting could be converted for robbery and intimidation. The key point being that ammo can be procured semi-legally.

More recently, handguns from eastern Europe and the US are becoming more common, and so sawn off shotguns are out of fashion.

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Hektore

There is also the weight and manoeuvrability factor. A full size shotgun can be unwieldy, but once shortened is tough to beat in terms of ease of use/lethality in a confined space. I always assumed this was why some police carried them (I know they're short, but not exactly how short).

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artweaker

Most law enforcement (LE) short barreled shotguns (SBS) run in the 14" bbl length range, this to make them more maneuverable particularly getting in and out of squads. Exceptions being breaching guns which are used to blow off the hinges and locks on doors. Breaching guns are usually pistol gripped with 10"ish barrels.

To be legal a SGN must have an 18" barrel (usually measured from the breech face) and be 26" long overall with folding and collapsible stocks being measure differently.

The Serbu Super Shorty isn't an SBS, it is classified as an Any Other Weapon (AOW), specifically a "Smooth Bore Pistol", and requires a 50$ tax stamp from the Feds whereas a SBS is a 200$ stamp same as for a MG or suppressor.

Smooth bore pistols are created using a virgin (never had a stock on it) SGN receiver while SBS are just cut-down SGNs.

MSD

AOW is a $5 stamp, not $50.

I don't feel like spending $200 to cut down a $25 gun into an SBS, but with a 19.5" barrel and 27-ish OAL, I like my DIY pseudo-shorty



And I think the surface rust from the humidity in my house adds character considering I intended it to look like a Mad Max kind of gun.

Plan9

You keep your dick that dirty?

MSD

I'm a sweaty person. After any amount of physical activity, my dick smells like fresh fish.

MarshallJD

For the real "mafia" shotgun, look up "lupara" on wikipedia.

Rather than concealability or shot dispersal, I've always thought the main advantage of the short-barrel shotgun was the fact that it is so much more easily maneuvered in close quarters - key for home defense, moving through heavy brush, or (not recommended) firing from inside a car.

geeza

Sawn-offs have always been popular among criminals in the UK for a number of the reasons detailed above

1) You can't easily obtain anything else / the ammo for it
2) It's more easily concealed
3) Easier to manage in close quarters
4) Possibly the main reason: it's "spectacular and scary" to let 'em off with a broader spread of shot. Lots of busted windows and ceiling tiles, and again remember you were never able to get automatic weapons in the UK. Someone will probably chime in that once upon a time etc etc but compared to the US where tommy guns would be used decades ago to create a sensation on rushing into a bank, in the UK you'd be relying on Robin Hood tactics of firing a bow and arrow at a lampshade or something.