I don't think a pitbull physically cannot be strangled. Anything can be strangled with enough compression and/or leverage. I contend that the idea that anybody will be able to get into the body position required to do so effectively is ridiculous because, as was pointed out before, long before a human is able to "mount" the dog and correctly apply the hold you refer to, the dog will have begun removing important portions of their anatomy: probably beginning with the side of the human's face which is closest to their own teeth. The position required for a from-behind or figure-4 chokehold put the strangler's face well within the ability of a dog to grab, and shred. Walt having seen (and caused) this to happen, I take his word. Moreover, your suggested google search brings up nothing relevant to this discussion, just some information on various MMA competitors.

For the record: Walt is not just some internet schlub bragging about credentials that I cannot verify. He and I are flesh-and-blood shooting/drinking/camping buddies, and I have seen both the documentation and the dogs which prove his bona fides. -That- is why I take his word: because I have verified him to be an expert on the matter at hand, trained and employed by an extremely demanding agency (the US Army) to train and deploy dangerous animals both as law-enforcement tools and as weapons.

I can't believe I have missed all the action in this thread.

Here's my two cents:

For the past six months myself and a couple of the guys I work with have had to shoot stray dogs on at least a weekly basis. We are probably sitting at approximately 100 for the trip.

They die relatively easy when you hit them in a good spot. Brain (not just head), Spine, Heart. If not they can limp off. If they are in a fight they will continue the fight until they are physically unable to do so.

I have also seen military bite dogs drag people out of buildings who had no intention of coming out. They were too damaged by the pain/fear of having a dog ripping their arms to shreds to be able to do anything except move in the direction the dog was pulling...it had complete control.

I have been in a bite suit and told to fight the dog...it ended up knocking me down and getting my back/neck area.

Dogs move VERY fast when they are pissed off and are very violent in their motions. I doubt you will be able to get behind one in any circumstances....it is easier for the dog to pivot than for you to run in circles.

Even training to kill dogs doesn't go well. At one point we were given bite-sleeves and a rubber knife and told to follow our training. The dogs were so violent it was near impossible to get at them and even if successful we would have sustained an incredible amount of damage. We were trained in how to deal with dogs and armed, but it was still a ridiculous sight to see.

Dunedan, you're limiting your thoughts and conclusions to a one on one confrontation. I am not beating my chest or making assumptions on how I or anyone else would fare in a dark alley with a pitbull. That was your main point of contention with SF, I believe. My point was simply to demonstrate (with examples) how people with knowledge on chokes can and have strangled/thwarted pitbull attacks with proper technique in everyday situations; whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you.

If you're unfamiliar with MMA I'll just tell you that a 9 year
old boy weighing no more than 60 pounds soak and wet managed to sedate a large aggressive pitbull with a very simple choke he learned in 2 weeks. Jonathan Goulet (you got info on mma because he is an mma fighter) also choked a pitbull unconscious at a dog park. I'm throwing this technique out there because it's the most effective technique you can use on a dog. I have a cousin in Quebec that strangled a german sheppard with this technique as well. So the way I see it you can live your life in ignorance believing whatever your friends tell you and reside yourself to defeat in the event of a pitbull attack, or you can be open
to the benefits of learning new techniques that could potentially save your life. Either way it's no skin off my face.

I ain't starting a fight in a pit-bull bar.

What a thread. I either seriously need a good nights sleep or this is the funniest shit I've read in a while.

Maybe both are true.

You mean BJJ, right? The dog in question was already engaged with a smaller dog and a little girl. The boy didn't fight off a dog that was attacking him. He blindsided a dog that was focused on another dog and a girl.

UPDATED: Boy stops dog attack with jiujitsu choke hold | Bakersfield Now - News, Weather and Sports | Local & Regional News

Again, the attacking dog was engaged with another dog at the time and got blindsided.

Jonathan Goulet Had to Choke a B*tch Out

Sorry champ. Your mystical and newfangled BJJ/MMA (what's that?!) isnt even the "most effective" technique when given the opportunity to blindside a dog that is attacking someone else. The subject of the thread, however, is to address effective ways to defend yourself from attacking dogs. In the situations relevant to the discussion, your kung-fu is no good. I have fought with more than a few ultra-aggressive dogs and have tried sprawling and transitioning to a rear-naked. I have also tried sprawling and using a gator roll/choke, as well as, going with my personal favorite; ground and pound. None have worked with any kind of consistency. Dogs are too fast and violent. The only thing achieved by doing so is to bring your face and throat down to the dogs level.

I certainly appreciate being indirectly called out, though I think what you meant to say was "you can be open to learning techniques that could potentially save the lives of others". The way I see it, you have contributed absolutely nothing to address the subject of the thread.

---------

How many Tapout and/or Affliction t-shirts do you own?

The way you see it, BJJ/MMA is some newfangled terminology that I invented. The way you see it, anyone who disagrees with you must own a Tapout and/or Affliction shirt. The way you see it, a pitbull that got blindsided by a freakin' 9 year old has no relevance to ANY discussion in this thread. The way you see it, I indirectly called you out on a personal level. I mean, can you be more self-centered if you tried? I wasn't even thinking about you until you responded, now I'm just bewildered by the effort you put into your multi-quote replies. If you really thought I contributed absolutely nothing to the discussion, all you had to do was ignore me. :confused:

The way I see it, you bumped a thread that has basically pissed off a group of people (over and over again) on this forum and you didn't expect your response to rub someone wrong. That's just how I see it.

The internets is serious business, ya know?

Don't make me choke out a hobbit.







:uhh:

Give me my bear-killer patches already. :lol: :D

Well it is good to see another voice of common sense.

Another person who is reasonable enough to understand that a man who is twice as big, many times more intelligent, and twice as strong will easily be able to over power a dog if they use the right technique.

Isn't it common sense to listen to people who actually know things?

I do not need to work in a kennels, nor do I need to be to lecture on the acquisitin of cognitive intelligence, to KNOW that humans are bigger and more intelligent than dogs.

Well, humans are generally bigger and more intelligent than dogs, but that's not what you're arguing here.

Pfft. Generally is an exaggeration. Step outside your Western Civilization text for a moment and examine the rest of the planet circa 2010.

For the mouth breathers: I understand the history and concept of mixed martial arts and Brazilian jujitsu. I was sarcastically mocking you for suggesting that it is some obscure cure-all. It's good for people, not so much for animals.

The Tapout/Affliction comment was in response to your statement that “[mixed martial arts and/or Brazilian jujitsu] is THE MOST EFFECTIVE TECHNIQUE”. My comment has obviously struck a nerve. As you did not answer the question, I will then assume that you do own at least one.

You are correct; the way I see it, a 9 year old blindsiding a dog is not in any way relevant to the discussion. Soon after the OP, SF came in and decided to bestow his august father’s wisdom on the rest of us. The topic of the thread, then, became effective ways to defend YOURSELF against an attacking dog. You suggested that the RNC is the MOST EFFECTIVE technique and provided intentionally misleading citations to support your claim. Your citations were misleading because they did not involve people defending themselves against an attack. Rather, they centered on people blindsiding dogs that were attacking others. As an example, allow me to provide a pose a similar question and then apply your answer:

Q: What’s an effective way to defend yourself in a bar fight?
A: Wait until two guys are fighting and sneaking up on one while he is focused on the other and choking him out.

The answer supplied in this example is just as irrelevant as the ones you provided. Being attacked is not the same as blindsiding someone/something that is attacking another.

When the Dunedan said that he would take my advice based upon my professional experience, you replied that he would be ignorant to do so. You did call me out. Now that I am here, you appear to be more than a little butt hurt that I would have the audacity to point out the irrelevancy of your comments.

I used the multi-quotes because you had a lot of silly things to say that I felt needed to be addressed individually. That's the way I see it.

---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 PM ----------

Much bigger, in some cases. Still, morbid obesity and intelligence aren't going to be as helpful as you seem to think. But then, thats just my professional opinion. I'm sure a quick search on Google will turn up a contrary opinion.

The point is that I am not talking about google searches, which you and your friend Dundean seem to obsessed with - constantly demanding quotes and citations as if it was an academic debated. I talk about practical experience, observation, and participation in the real world.

I am 32 years old. In my life I have on many occassions observed and interacted with dogs, I have been in fights in my life, I have seen dogs fight. The practical experience of any sensible individual will tell you that a man is stronger than a dog. If a dog attacked me I could defend myself in multiple ways

1 - manhandle the dog so he is trapped on the floor and then pull his hindlegs apart.

2 -drive my arm straight into his face and tnen poke out his eyes or knock him out cold with a punch from my free hand

3 - a hard kick to the back

4 - strangulation

5 - Use of a makeshift weapon such as a bunch of keys wrapped round the fist

All a dog has the sense to do is bite. The only way it could inflict fatal injuries on me is (1) I fall asleep and it eats me (2) it bites my throat. As long as I defend my throat and face (which is quite easy to do against an animal that is weaker and less intelligent than me) it cannot mortally wound me. However, one blow to its back delivered with my 300 lbs of strength and bulk would likely snap its spine in two.

I figured I would stir the pot a little bit, enjoy these videos.






You have to click the below link to see this one. It is a real-world bite where a dog dominates a big fat guy who tries to fight the dog.
http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/242156/police_dogs.swf


http://www.livevideo.com/video/2BFB7...og-arrest.aspx

So....would being a professional military working dog handler fall under those criteria?

I don't care if you wrap your keys around your pudgy hands and try to put an eye out, kick, bite or somehow try to flip a dog on its back and tug on its legs (BTW, thank you for that hilarious mental image). All you are doing is offering up something else for the dog to bite and then use to pull you off balance. A pissed off dog is going to put you squarely on your ample ass and work its way up to your neck and face in seconds. Even if you manage to put an eye out or break a leg, the dog will keep coming once it has committed itself.

You really should stop making reference to your weight as if it were helpful. You are morbidly obese. You have admitted that your level of aerobic/anaerobic fitness is eclipsed by 14 year old girls. Instead of sucking it up and fixing yourself, you had a pity party and whined about how you are unwilling to do so. These facts, when taken together, lead me to believe that you spend no time in the gym. I would surmise that your "considerable" strength, isn't.

Allow me to re-cap a previous statement. This is what 75 lbs. of functional muscle looks like:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...livangetty.jpg

This is what 300lbs of superior mass and intelligence looks like:

Oh, goddamn! This is the best thread ever! Walt, you make me laugh in a good way, like "Did he just say that? Yeah, he did just say that." Strange, you make me laugh in a bad way, like "did he just say that? No way he just said that."

Hey Strange, try kicking a dog when it's dumbass has just bit your jugular. Does it really matter how smart it is? It can fuck you up if it had an IQ of 2. Does it really matter how weak it is? It can fuck you up pretty easily when you're pissing your pants out of fear. The dog is attacking you, it's not scared of you. You will be scared of it, even if you don't think you will be.

Strange, the best advice I can give you is: you should always listen to people smarter than you.

on what basis do you think I would be scared of a 90 lbs dog?

As was stated above... look at the people who are victims of fatal dog attacks, they are rarely over 10 years old. The dog is a pack animal and by nature the ultimate coward. It will attack something it thinks is weaker than it, but in the face of a show of dominance will cower.

If I exposed my neck to a rabid attack dog, yes it might kil me... but we are speaking about situations in which I am awake and the dog attacked me. I would easily be able to overpower the dog, force its teeth away from me, and then pummel it. It would be very unlikely I would infact need to kill the dog unless it was maddened, because once it had been overpowered in this way it would cower or flee.

Do you even know what a dog is?

Dog:
http://www.los-angeles-injury-lawyer...og_attack2.jpg

Not-a-dog:
http://blogs.poz.com/shawn/upload/gerbil.jpg

And with that post this thread needs to get moved into the hall of fame.

Tbh i think Strange's weight WILL help him, I mean I've seen dogs refuse to eat something that's just too nasty and greasy before.

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- Were I to break out my trolls-and-flamers whomping stick, it would be a very busy night indeed. Instead I'm just going to point out that you all know better and lock the thread for week or so. If you're pissed off and want to complain, please PM me. Please.