SSJTWIZTA

bear scarer alerted me to this type of ammunition.

all i want are opinions.

gun junkies, tell me what you think of the round.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

telekinetic

Good on paper...wish ammo for it was available readily. I don't have enough guns to afford to have one that is a picky eater.

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twisted no more

wraithhibn

The FBI wanted 10mm but it didn't function as well as they wanted. So they chopped it off and now you have .40SW

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If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

KirStang

Hard to find factory rounds loaded to exploit the 10's full potential. But, if you do, you have .357 magnum power in an autoloading platform. Thus, if you have a glock 20, you can shoot 16 rounds of 782 ft/lb rounds before reloading. Pretty damn potent.

Buffalo Bore 10mm: 180 gr pushed to 1,350 fps. Packing about 780 ft/lbs of energy. Heavy 10mm Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

Great "wild animal defense round" imo.

I know most die hard 10mm fans reload, so they can harness all the extra case length from the 10mm.

Pros:
-Potent
-Made for autoloaders, so mag capacity can be greatly increased.
-Great for handloading, so one can tweak a load to their liking

Cons:
- Not very popular. Although, with the recent buying binge, 10mm was all i could find on shelves .
- Long cartridge. Too big for some people's hands. hehehehe.
- Some reports of excessive recoil, although, I've only fired 10mm through an all steel pistol so it pushed like a puppy.
- Usually ammo is hard to come by. Both HD & target loads. Walmart doesn't sell them, and my gun dealer only had 1 box of Federal HST in 10mm. Only Outdoor world regularly sells it, and it's $25/50. Kinda pricey.
- Guns for it are somewhat hard to find. The most popular platforms are a 1911 variant of some sort or the aforementioned Glock 20. I have a S&W 1006.

Shrug. When I go hiking in VA, I'm carrying my 10mm with me.

---------- Post added at 12:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 AM ----------

I believe female agents hands were too small, or that the recoil was too great? Hence the FBI switched to 9mm, before finally settling on .40 S&W after the Miami shoot out?

The .40 S&W is basically a shortened 10mm, operating at higher pressures. Hence why the .40 is snappier and Kabooms are sometimes more frequently seen with .40 S&W Glocks.

Plan9

10mm is like .357 Sig.

Great rounds... zero popularity.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

SSJTWIZTA

That'll do.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

The_Dunedan

100 is a great-looking, great-performing round. However;

1: Frame galling/cracking. The original 10mms, the Bren Ten and Colt Delta Elite, were known for frame cracking due to excessive recoil and were quickly dropped from production.

2: Rarity of guns: only Tangfolio/Witness, CZ, and Glock currently chamber it in production handguns. Expect to pay a premium.

3: Rarity of ammo: See above posts.

4: Recoil. Plenty.

Walt

While the 10mm Auto round is a definite stud, I've never had any trouble managing the recoil on my Glock 20. It may have something to do with Glocks low bore line and recoil absorbing polymer frame - but I feel more recoil from my 1911 than I do from my G20.

Pro's
1) The G20 holds 16 rounds o' doom
2) After throwing in a KKM barrel and an aftermarket trigger bar the gun will shoot sub 2" groups @ 25 yards.
3) Like all Glocks, you can easily throw on a weapons light

Con's
1) You pretty much have to reload your own ammo if you plan on shooting it regularly.

__________________
Calmer than you are...

Plan9

Yeah, I fail to see how a 10mm could kick more than a defense load in a .357 Magnum revolver. I've shot KirStang's 1006 and the recoil wasn't any worse than a .45 out of a GI 1911. The recoil spring on the automatic absorbs some of the "Ooomph," as the slide cycles back... whereas a revolver just gives it all to you in one quick shot. Both loads, 10mm and .357, are pretty close in performance standards when using similar stat commercial ammo, IIRC.

Funny, I was really interested in the Glock 20 a few years ago. As Walt said... with a trigger job, a new barrel, new sights, and good supply of ammo to train with... you've got a practical sidearm like few others (unlike a Mark 23, har-har). I was kinda leery about how it would fare over time (read about durability issues with the original G20s) and figured the G20, while awesome, is kinda in the same boat with the .357 Sig pistol: awesome but no market share.

...

Also: Glock's don't have a low bore line (well, they do compared to old HKs). A friggin' Steyr M series has a low bore line. Nobody has beat that AFAIK.

I mean... just look at how high the grip is on the first and second generation Steyr M series. They're ergonomic perfection.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

SSJTWIZTA

...yeah...grips. i see those.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

raptor9k

deleted

therealcat

Like the illustration above, you've got to roll your own.

KirStang

10mm. Causes mini nuclear explosions in the target: The Ultimate Anything Stopper.

Fire

as I remember it, the reason the FBI dropped it was that many of their agents could not handle the recoil.... fans of the 10 mm tend to be the die hard type, really the 10mm is like the .41 magnum, born out of a desire to make a good compromise between extreme power and being manageable, as well as having a many rounds as possible on tap- add to this the fact that the .357 magnum has something like a 97 percent one shot stop rate when shooting perps- thus what all departments really wanted was a .357 that had near the capacity of a nine milimeter - out of this quest came the .40 s+w , the .357 sig, and even the ill starred .45 GAP- it looks as though of them all the .40 has won out, filling the space between 9mm and .45 with a tenable compromise.... 10 mm on the other hand , is not a compromise so much as what a desert eagle .357 always wanted to be- the glock platform making the best use of this line of thought, as mentioned, if 16 out of a 10mm wont kill it, it is probably a really large bear.... or some kind of suddenly sentient piece of farm equipment.......

__________________
Thought the harder, Heart the bolder,
Mood the more as our might lessens

SSJTWIZTA

ha @ kirstang.

i think im falling in love with this round. i need to shoot a 10mm asap.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

telekinetic

Why is the first thing I notice "damn girl, get your fingers out of the trigger guards"

__________________
twisted no more

Plan9

Likewise. It's probably the fact that I'm a range safety officer and women, more than men it seems, love to put their fingers in that hole.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

skinnymofo

everything i had heard about the gov and the 10mm was that they felt the 10mm over penetrated and thus circumsized it and made the bastard child 40cal by cutting the case length and thus powder.
i really wanted one as a carry gun but all i could find out from my gun shop if i wanted a 3 or 4 inch barrel 10mm it would need to be a custom built in the 1911 frame. (glocks dont fit my hand)
Id still buy one today if i could find one for about 1000 although in a full size frame.
Btw this info came from one of my reloading books.

SSJTWIZTA

i've been thinking alot about this round. i see no reason why its not more popular.
i want to purchase one, but the rare and expensive ammo is a big turn off.

yeah, i noticed the trigger guard as well. but its a photo shoot so i shrugged it off.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

Ilow

I thought that the very reason that they wanted it was to give them extra penetration when shooting through things like car doors etc, and the reason they discontinued using it was that the recoil was preventing double tapping, or at least timely, accurate second shots. Also the frame cracks...

__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris

Plan9

Tell that to poor old .41 Magnum.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

moot1337

Cromp... that picture you posted... surely, she must have fallen from heaven (which is, coincidentally, the same place Steyrs come from).

*edit* I'm pretty sure the original M/S series has a lower bore than the M-A1's.... lucky me

Attached Images

	steyr 016.jpg (48.4 KB, 79 views)
	steyr 018.jpg (43.7 KB, 77 views)

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And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be
banana-shaped.
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again
how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
Oh, certainly, sir.

Plan9

Moot, you sonuvabitch! Where have you been, bro?

...

Figured I could lure you back with Steyr M-series pics.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

moot1337

You were right ^_^

Re. 10mm, to stay on topic:

I would KILL for a 10mm M-A1. Using my S9. As a bludgeon.

Would also kill for a .357 Sig S-A1 or S series.

However, significant downsides for these calibers, other than rarity and factories loading them way under spec, is that modern bullet design favors more popular calibers. Often, for these beefy calibers, they've just shoved a 9mm (or 40S&W) bullet into the beefier cartridge, without much thought as to the performance at higher velocities. The result is bullets mushrooming too early, limiting penetration and sometimes becoming quite fragmented..... for shame!

__________________
And that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be
banana-shaped.
This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again
how sheeps' bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
Oh, certainly, sir.

SSJTWIZTA

awwhh, for shame indeed.

my cousin and i were talking about great rounds that never caught on and what a shame that was. people go batshit for .17's, but poor mr. 5mm gets forgotten.

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

MSD

With 10mm, you could end up like Harold Fish and be convicted for a self defense shooting because you're "too prepared to kill."

Walt

Your post made me curious enough to google "Harold Fish". Fuck me, dude. I'd say Mr. Fish needs to hire a better lawyer.

__________________
Calmer than you are...

KirStang

Yea, the lawyer didn't neutralize the 10mm by saying it was great against vicious & large wild animals. tsk tsk.

ChrisJericho

Wow I just read about the Harold Fish case as well. Completely amazed at the conviction. I guess Fish should have let the other guy beat him, because it's not like fists or feet can be used as deadly weapons right?

This story should probably be its own thread.

__________________
"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

MSD

Two other facts: The case led to AZ state police having to avoid looking bad by ditching 10mm for .40, and the man who Fish shot had previously met with a judge and scared him so badly that he called security because he felt he was in danger. The incident was not admissible as evidence.