Buying a rifle (Yes I read the "advice...first gun" sticky) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FelixP · 05-11-2009, 06:20 PM

Hi all. I plan on buying a rifle for small game hunting (rabbit, squirrel) and target shooting. This will be my first powder gun (I have a Beeman RS1 .177 Magnum Air Rifle); a few months ago I spent about thirty minutes with a Glock 17 at the range. I've basically narrowed it down to two choices: the Marlin 980S chambered in .22LR, and the Marlin 917S chambered in .17 HMR. I figure there are advantages and disadvantages to each.

I had the chance to handle the 980S at the gun store a while back, and I really like the feel of it. It was of decent length, and was very well balanced (I'm talking M1903 balance--well, almost), and nifty iron sights. I also figure that .22LR is cheaper than
.17 HMR.

The Marlin 917S fires a more powerful round with a flatter trajectory, perfect for both hunting and range shooting. The 917's sights look to be decent. It's balance was pretty much the same as the 980S. My question is, how much does .17 HMR cost over .22LR?

I'm pretty much deadlocked, although ammo cost is a pertinent factor. Which of the two do you guys and gals like more?

Plan9 · 05-11-2009, 06:33 PM

Nice! Beautiful choice of a rifle. Marlin 980S in .22 LR all the way.

Rifle: Marlin rifles are built like tanks. 980s has reliability of a bolt with convenience of a detachable mag.

.22 LR: It's everywhere, cheap, and extremely versatile. Hard to outgrow it for your purposes.

I'd stick to the .22 LR. It'll do everything you want if you practice enough and put the right ammo through it.

...

Did you look at the similarly-equipped Savage Mark II? http://www.savagearms.com/markiifss.htm

I'm a big fan of their accu-trigger.

Fire · 05-11-2009, 08:08 PM

everyone that i know who varmint hunts says the .17 is essentially a gimic, it is in fact not more powerful, and while it reaches slightly farther, the lack of bullet weight makes it a very overspecialized toy that costs way more to shoot than the .22 and only offers dubious advantages at best- around here, btw, 550 rounds of .22 lr, 15 bucks, 50 rounds of .17- 20 bucks- really a loosing proposition for the .17, unless you have to have the latest state of the art weapon to defend against zombie gophers......

Plan9 · 05-11-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

latest state of the art weapon to defend against zombie gophers

Dude, stop teasing me.

FelixP · 05-12-2009, 02:58 PM

Hmm...it seems like the .22LR is the winner. Now I just need a place to shoot. The only rifle range in town is at a member-only club...fucking Ohio...

samcol · 05-12-2009, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

everyone that i know who varmint hunts says the .17 is essentially a gimic, it is in fact not more powerful, and while it reaches slightly farther, the lack of bullet weight makes it a very overspecialized toy that costs way more to shoot than the .22 and only offers dubious advantages at best- around here, btw, 550 rounds of .22 lr, 15 bucks, 50 rounds of .17- 20 bucks- really a loosing proposition for the .17, unless you have to have the latest state of the art weapon to defend against zombie gophers......

That sounds exactly like the 5.56 vs. 7.62x39 debate

sorry I couldn't resist...

I ddefinitely prefer .22 lr although I've never shot either of the rifles OP is looking at.

The_Dunedan · 05-12-2009, 05:00 PM

.22LR is going to be easier to find in (cheap) quantity, although market conditions have narrowed the gap quite a bit. .17HMR offers significantly longer effective/accurate range, -much- flatter trajectory, and better projectiles. It also tends to be much more accurate in my experience, probably as a result of the superior bullet design. The .17HMR is far from a gimmick (although .17M2 is basically a waste of time), and offers decided advantages in every area except for price and weapon availability. .22LR is still significantly cheaper in quantity, and there are far more rifles built for the .22 than the .17. However, shooting a .17HMR to its' full potential is something you'll be much more able to do after a few thousand rounds worth of practice, which .22LR will let you do for a lot less money.

Grab the .22 now, upgrade later. The .17HMR will drop 'chucks and crows out to 200-250 yards, but only if you, the shooter, have the chops for it. Practice first, then show off.

samcol · 05-12-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixP

Hmm...it seems like the .22LR is the winner. Now I just need a place to shoot. The only rifle range in town is at a member-only club...fucking Ohio...

If you have any friends or relatives at all with any kind of backdrop that's safe to shoot into then you should be fine. I've found I can shoot .22 lr about anywhere outside city limits on property I'm allowed too without people bitching at all.

My parents own about 10 acres and whenever I have a friend or two out and we step it up to 7.62 russian or soviet people complain about the sound even though we only do it like once a month on a weekend.

Zeraph · 05-12-2009, 05:49 PM

Eewww bolt action. Go with a semi auto unless you're really set on bein a varmint sniper

. I did varmint hunting when I was younger and being able to put more shots down range was a lot more important than you'd think. Also a lot more fun.

FelixP · 05-12-2009, 05:56 PM

Bolt action is more reliable due to decreased complexity, perfect for a first time gun owner. Besides, if I miss with the first shot or two, then the animal deserves to get away. And with a bolt action, I have the option of using subsonic rounds, which tend to be more accurate beyond 100 yards (in .22LR, of course. Obviously not with .50 BMG or something similar). Yeah, I'm trying to think of a friend that lives outside city limits. Thanks for the help all.

Slims · 05-12-2009, 06:32 PM

My first rifle was a Marlin 880SS, and I still have it. It is a fantastic small game rifle. The .17 is great for small game at longer distances, but is more expensive and not as clean as a .22LR on squirrels and such.

raptor9k · 05-13-2009, 02:20 PM

deleted

Walt · 05-13-2009, 02:56 PM

Im going to jump on the bandwagon and suggest the Marlin .22 LR. My first gun was a Marlin 25N (similar to what you're looking at but blued and with a cheap wood stock). Still have it. It's a fantastic little rifle that is surprisingly accurate, easy to maintain and damn near impossible to break.

In the real world, there's not much of a ballistic difference between the .22 and the 17 HMR. That being said, I'd go with a rifle chambered in .22LR based upon availability and price. Every sporting goods store on the continent carries 22 ammo. Cheap ammo goes for about $2 for a box of 50. A box of "premium" CCI Stingers run about $5. Premium-iest Eley Tenex match ammo goes for about $18 a box but is only used by serious match shooters.

50 rounds of Winchester 17 HMR @ Midwayusa.com = $15.49
50 rounds of CCI Stinger .22LR @ Midwayusa.com = $6.19

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=236134
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=199998

FelixP · 05-16-2009, 08:43 PM

I'm looking at the Savage MarkII (courtesy of cromp), but I was wondering if anyone knew what kind of sights it had. All I can find is that it has fiber optics, but I can't find anything on the style. Also, what kind of ammo do you guys suggest for target shooting/plinking? I'm looking at some CCI stuff now, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless.

kinsaj · 05-18-2009, 07:34 PM

My Ruger cycles sub-sonic .22LR just fine. Have you checked those out? Cheap as hell and I have not had any problems with mine.

FelixP · 05-22-2009, 07:39 PM

Well, yesterday I ordered a Savage MKII FSS at gander mountain. It should arrive in 7-10 days. Thanks for all of the helpful advice and information (especially on the .17 HMR) everyone. I appreciate it.

Plan9 · 05-26-2009, 03:50 PM

Go team! Excellent. We demand pictures.

...

Oh, I'll be over to inspect it when it arrives. Ya know, for quality assurance purposes.

Um, I'll need the rifle, twenty minutes in your bathroom, Hoppe's #9 gun oil, a CD player with some Barry White, and a roll of paper towels.

FelixP · 05-26-2009, 06:23 PM

Haha nice one cromp...if I catch you and my rifle together I might just 'Hey Joe' your ass.

I'll take pictures if I can find a digital camera to borrow.

Plan9 · 05-26-2009, 06:36 PM

You'll love the Savage. I've got a 111FC (.30-06) and a 10FCM Scout (.308) and they're inexpensive rifles that seem to be designed to handle tank shells. Their line of rimfire guns is just as well designed, IMO. Lemme know how you like that snazzy-pants accu-trigger.

You'll definitely wanna get some extra mags and CCI (formerly Triton) "Quik-Shok" brand ammo in the .22 LR size. The pre-fragmented 3-slug bullet is top notch for critters of all sizes and it's been really reliable for me in guns other than the Walther P22.

Any thoughts to optics? I could offer a few suggestions if you're leaning towards putting glass on top of your plinker deluxe.

FelixP · 05-26-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crompsin

You'll love the Savage. I've got a 111FC (.30-06) and a 10FCM Scout (.308) and they're inexpensive rifles that seem to be designed to handle tank shells. Their line of rimfire guns is just as well designed, IMO. Lemme know how you like that snazzy-pants accu-trigger.

You'll definitely wanna get some extra mags and CCI (formerly Triton) "Quik-Shok" brand ammo in the .22 LR size. The pre-fragmented 3-slug bullet is top notch for critters of all sizes and it's been really reliable for me in guns other than the Walther P22.

Any thoughts to optics? I could offer a few suggestions if you're leaning towards putting glass on top of your plinker deluxe.

Can CCI Quik Shoks reach out to 100 yards? Will I have any legal issues that you can think of? I live in Ohio. Yes, I'm considering getting a telescopic sight, or maybe a reflex sight for hunting. I've got a 4*32 on my Beeman RS1, but there are times I wish I had a 1* reflex. Anyway, thanks for the help.

P.S.
Sorry for all the questions; this will be my first powder gun.

05-11-2009, 06:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Buying a rifle (Yes I read the "advice...first gun" sticky) Hi all. I plan on buying a rifle for small game hunting (rabbit, squirrel) and target shooting. This will be my first powder gun (I have a Beeman RS1 .177 Magnum Air Rifle); a few months ago I spent about thirty minutes with a Glock 17 at the range. I've basically narrowed it down to two choices: the Marlin 980S chambered in .22LR, and the Marlin 917S chambered in .17 HMR. I figure there are advantages and disadvantages to each. I had the chance to handle the 980S at the gun store a while back, and I really like the feel of it. It was of decent length, and was very well balanced (I'm talking M1903 balance--well, almost), and nifty iron sights. I also figure that .22LR is cheaper than .17 HMR. The Marlin 917S fires a more powerful round with a flatter trajectory, perfect for both hunting and range shooting. The 917's sights look to be decent. It's balance was pretty much the same as the 980S. My question is, how much does .17 HMR cost over .22LR? I'm pretty much deadlocked, although ammo cost is a pertinent factor. Which of the two do you guys and gals like more? __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-11-2009, 06:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Nice! Beautiful choice of a rifle. Marlin 980S in .22 LR all the way. Rifle: Marlin rifles are built like tanks. 980s has reliability of a bolt with convenience of a detachable mag. .22 LR: It's everywhere, cheap, and extremely versatile. Hard to outgrow it for your purposes. I'd stick to the .22 LR. It'll do everything you want if you practice enough and put the right ammo through it. ... Did you look at the similarly-equipped Savage Mark II? http://www.savagearms.com/markiifss.htm I'm a big fan of their accu-trigger. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 05-11-2009 at 06:41 PM..

05-11-2009, 08:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	everyone that i know who varmint hunts says the .17 is essentially a gimic, it is in fact not more powerful, and while it reaches slightly farther, the lack of bullet weight makes it a very overspecialized toy that costs way more to shoot than the .22 and only offers dubious advantages at best- around here, btw, 550 rounds of .22 lr, 15 bucks, 50 rounds of .17- 20 bucks- really a loosing proposition for the .17, unless you have to have the latest state of the art weapon to defend against zombie gophers...... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

05-12-2009, 02:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Hmm...it seems like the .22LR is the winner. Now I just need a place to shoot. The only rifle range in town is at a member-only club...fucking Ohio... __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-12-2009, 05:56 PM	#10 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Bolt action is more reliable due to decreased complexity, perfect for a first time gun owner. Besides, if I miss with the first shot or two, then the animal deserves to get away. And with a bolt action, I have the option of using subsonic rounds, which tend to be more accurate beyond 100 yards (in .22LR, of course. Obviously not with .50 BMG or something similar). Yeah, I'm trying to think of a friend that lives outside city limits. Thanks for the help all. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-12-2009, 05:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	.22LR is going to be easier to find in (cheap) quantity, although market conditions have narrowed the gap quite a bit. .17HMR offers significantly longer effective/accurate range, -much- flatter trajectory, and better projectiles. It also tends to be much more accurate in my experience, probably as a result of the superior bullet design. The .17HMR is far from a gimmick (although .17M2 is basically a waste of time), and offers decided advantages in every area except for price and weapon availability. .22LR is still significantly cheaper in quantity, and there are far more rifles built for the .22 than the .17. However, shooting a .17HMR to its' full potential is something you'll be much more able to do after a few thousand rounds worth of practice, which .22LR will let you do for a lot less money. Grab the .22 now, upgrade later. The .17HMR will drop 'chucks and crows out to 200-250 yards, but only if you, the shooter, have the chops for it. Practice first, then show off.

05-12-2009, 05:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	Eewww bolt action. Go with a semi auto unless you're really set on bein a varmint sniper . I did varmint hunting when I was younger and being able to put more shots down range was a lot more important than you'd think. Also a lot more fun.

05-12-2009, 06:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
Slims Eccentric insomniac Location: North Carolina	My first rifle was a Marlin 880SS, and I still have it. It is a fantastic small game rifle. The .17 is great for small game at longer distances, but is more expensive and not as clean as a .22LR on squirrels and such. __________________ "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill "All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

05-13-2009, 02:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
raptor9k Crazy Location: Earth	deleted Last edited by raptor9k; 09-08-2021 at 04:56 AM..

05-13-2009, 02:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
Walt I'm calmer than you are, dude Location: North Carolina	Im going to jump on the bandwagon and suggest the Marlin .22 LR. My first gun was a Marlin 25N (similar to what you're looking at but blued and with a cheap wood stock). Still have it. It's a fantastic little rifle that is surprisingly accurate, easy to maintain and damn near impossible to break. In the real world, there's not much of a ballistic difference between the .22 and the 17 HMR. That being said, I'd go with a rifle chambered in .22LR based upon availability and price. Every sporting goods store on the continent carries 22 ammo. Cheap ammo goes for about $2 for a box of 50. A box of "premium" CCI Stingers run about $5. Premium-iest Eley Tenex match ammo goes for about $18 a box but is only used by serious match shooters. 50 rounds of Winchester 17 HMR @ Midwayusa.com = $15.49 50 rounds of CCI Stinger .22LR @ Midwayusa.com = $6.19 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=236134 http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=199998 __________________ Calmer than you are... Last edited by Walt; 05-13-2009 at 03:01 PM..

05-16-2009, 08:43 PM	#14 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	I'm looking at the Savage MarkII (courtesy of cromp), but I was wondering if anyone knew what kind of sights it had. All I can find is that it has fiber optics, but I can't find anything on the style. Also, what kind of ammo do you guys suggest for target shooting/plinking? I'm looking at some CCI stuff now, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-18-2009, 07:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
kinsaj Psycho Location: somewhere out there	My Ruger cycles sub-sonic .22LR just fine. Have you checked those out? Cheap as hell and I have not had any problems with mine. __________________ boom

05-22-2009, 07:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Well, yesterday I ordered a Savage MKII FSS at gander mountain. It should arrive in 7-10 days. Thanks for all of the helpful advice and information (especially on the .17 HMR) everyone. I appreciate it. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-26-2009, 03:50 PM	#17 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Go team! Excellent. We demand pictures. ... Oh, I'll be over to inspect it when it arrives. Ya know, for quality assurance purposes. Um, I'll need the rifle, twenty minutes in your bathroom, Hoppe's #9 gun oil, a CD player with some Barry White, and a roll of paper towels. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

05-26-2009, 06:23 PM	#18 (permalink)
FelixP Insane Location: I'm up they see me I'm down.	Haha nice one cromp...if I catch you and my rifle together I might just 'Hey Joe' your ass. I'll take pictures if I can find a digital camera to borrow. __________________ Free will lies not in the ability to craft your own fate, but in not knowing what your fate is. --Me "I have just returned from visting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world." --Douglas MacArthur

05-26-2009, 06:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	You'll love the Savage. I've got a 111FC (.30-06) and a 10FCM Scout (.308) and they're inexpensive rifles that seem to be designed to handle tank shells. Their line of rimfire guns is just as well designed, IMO. Lemme know how you like that snazzy-pants accu-trigger. You'll definitely wanna get some extra mags and CCI (formerly Triton) "Quik-Shok" brand ammo in the .22 LR size. The pre-fragmented 3-slug bullet is top notch for critters of all sizes and it's been really reliable for me in guns other than the Walther P22. Any thoughts to optics? I could offer a few suggestions if you're leaning towards putting glass on top of your plinker deluxe. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake." Last edited by Plan9; 05-26-2009 at 06:41 PM..